Tightgrope..

[derek45]

I'd look for a medium speed powder.

win231
unique
HS6
CFE-p
power pistol
etc.

save the TIGHT GROPE for stubby cases, like 380, 9mm, 45ACP etc.

 

[Nature Boy]

It will forever be Tightgrope for me till the end of days

 

[dcarr]

I'm shooting the .38spl in the blackhawk which is a s8spl/ 357 cylinder

 

[westernrover]

I have 13 pistol powders on hand, and Titegroup is all I've really wanted to use for the last two years.

The only practical downside I can think of is that low masses and volumes of the powder contain a lot of energy so it can be dangerous if the charges are inaccurate. High-volume and mass powders, on the other hand, while they can be practically impossible to overcharge a case with, almost always burn filthy, especially at low (handgun) pressures. Titegroup contains little deterrent or burn-rate inhibitors, and that means it burns very clean even at low pressures.

The cleanliness of Titegroup is one of the virtues I appreciate. Another virtue is its overall consistency. It is noted to be position insensitive such that a small volume of powder in a large magnum case will produce consistent velocities without regard to how the powder is distributed throughout the space inside the case. I recently tested several powders in 357 Magnum and got the following 5-shot standard deviations for velocity in feet per second with 125 gn. Barnes TAC-XP bullets:

TightGroup 5.6
Longshot 38.4
BE-86 24.7
N-105 11.5
2400 44.2

All the charges were trickled up on a Redding No. 2 beam scale. My cases are also prepared meticulously. So the above standard deviations really reflect the powder characteristics in this application. Truly, 11.5 fps is good enough for anything one does with a handgun, but 5.6 is better. Obviously, N-105 offers a little more velocity at a lower MAP, but there are other ways to make up that velocity like additional barrel length and higher MAP. For this reason, powders like Power Pistol and Blue Dot, which I also have on-hand, just don't offer anything for me over Titegroup. I would rather shoot a longer barrel or bump the pressure up and still use Titegroup to get cleaner and more consistent performance.

Titegroup cannot practically be used to produce loads like the slower burning, progressive powders: MP-300, H110/W296, N-110, etc. It's clearly not the powder for maximum velocity magnums or rifle cartridges for that matter. But these magnums are a limited niche within handgun ammo. For all the other handgun cartridges out there, including magnums of less than maximum velocity, I haven't used a better powder. The other powders are just dirtier, and less consistent, and at best they make up for insufficient barrel length or some other problem.

 

[dartor]

I've only bought one lb of Titegroup. Didn't care for the barrel getting hot so quick and found accuracy no better than other powders. Used it up and won't be buying any more.

Furthermore, when I'm gonna be Groped, I prefer it to be Tite. Stay thirsty my friends......

 

[AJC1]

I have 13 pistol powders on hand, and Titegroup is all I've really wanted to use for the last two years.

The only practical downside I can think of is that low masses and volumes of the powder contain a lot of energy so it can be dangerous if the charges are inaccurate. High-volume and mass powders, on the other hand, while they can be practically impossible to overcharge a case with, almost always burn filthy, especially at low (handgun) pressures. Titegroup contains little deterrent or burn-rate inhibitors, and that means it burns very clean even at low pressures.

The cleanliness of Titegroup is one of the virtues I appreciate. Another virtue is its overall consistency. It is noted to be position insensitive such that a small volume of powder in a large magnum case will produce consistent velocities without regard to how the powder is distributed throughout the space inside the case. I recently tested several powders in 357 Magnum and got the following 5-shot standard deviations for velocity in feet per second with 125 gn. Barnes TAC-XP bullets:

TightGroup 5.6
Longshot 38.4
BE-86 24.7
N-105 11.5
2400 44.2

All the charges were trickled up on a Redding No. 2 beam scale. My cases are also prepared meticulously. So the above standard deviations really reflect the powder characteristics in this application. Truly, 11.5 fps is good enough for anything one does with a handgun, but 5.6 is better. Obviously, N-105 offers a little more velocity at a lower MAP, but there are other ways to make up that velocity like additional barrel length and higher MAP. For this reason, powders like Power Pistol and Blue Dot, which I also have on-hand, just don't offer anything for me over Titegroup. I would rather shoot a longer barrel or bump the pressure up and still use Titegroup to get cleaner and more consistent performance.

Titegroup cannot practically be used to produce loads like the slower burning, progressive powders: MP-300, H110/W296, N-110, etc. It's clearly not the powder for maximum velocity magnums or rifle cartridges for that matter. But these magnums are a limited niche within handgun ammo. For all the other handgun cartridges out there, including magnums of less than maximum velocity, I haven't used a better powder. The other powders are just dirtier, and less consistent, and at best they make up for insufficient barrel length or some other problem.

Just because you seem to do thouro testing did you try lilgun. It's like the magnum version of tightgroup. I don't have any yet but it's definitely on the list...

 

[GeoDudeFlorida]

Just because you seem to do thouro testing did you try lilgun. It's like the magnum version of tightgroup. I don't have any yet but it's definitely on the list...

Another shotgun powder crossed over to magnum handgun.
Lil’Gun is one I haven’t tried yet because it doesn’t do anything other powders I already have in ample supply won’t. Maybe next shortage.

 

[AJC1]

Another shotgun powder crossed over to magnum handgun.
Lil’Gun is one I haven’t tried yet because it doesn’t do anything other powders I already have in ample supply won’t. Maybe next shortage.

I'm settled on accurate #9, Alliant 2400, hogden???? And currently testing sw hp. That gives me a powder in most brands when in need. H110 is not versatile enough to make the cut so lilgun may be the one in that brand.

 

[CoalCrackerAl]

I never tried lil gun. Worth checking out? I think the new shop i been going to has some. 3rd bottle in from the left?

 

[GeoDudeFlorida]

I'm settled on accurate #9, Alliant 2400, hogden???? And currently testing sw hp. That gives me a powder in most brands when in need. H110 is not versatile enough to make the cut so lilgun may be the one in that brand.

Have you ever messed with 700X? Very fast clean powder. Meters like beach pebbles but I don’t use a meter so it’s not an issue. 800X is the magnum powder in that family. Now discontinued so you won’t get a chance to try it. Lots of good powders are gone since Hodgdon started buying out the competition: HS-7, SR 4759, H4227, 800X… sad but the fact is they didn’t have a market big enough to save them.

 

[CoalCrackerAl]

700X was the 1st powder i used. I used up what i had. Never replaced it. Metering is why.

 

[joneb]

The title scared me a little

Lets go Brandon.

 

[AJC1]

Have you ever messed with 700X? Very fast clean powder. Meters like beach pebbles but I don’t use a meter so it’s not an issue. 800X is the magnum powder in that family. Now discontinued so you won’t get a chance to try it. Lots of good powders are gone since Hodgdon started buying out the competition: HS-7, SR 4759, H4227, 800X… sad but the fact is they didn’t have a market big enough to save them.

The one I'm sad I missed is imr 4320

 

[AJC1]

I never tried lil gun. Worth checking out? I think the new shop i been going to has some. 3rd bottle in from the left?
View attachment 1113578

It's supposed to be high nitro so if you don't like heat it's probably not your game. I'm intrigued for making a few rounds for hunting and maybe launching 180s at the rams at 200 that like to ring because 357 mag is low on steam for that heavy plate that far out.

 

[GeoDudeFlorida]

The one I'm sad I missed is imr 4320

Yup. Great powder for the Mauser cartridges. 7mm especially.

 

[Charlie98]

I’m not a fan but I do use it and it does have it’s uses. Pros: not position sensitive, works well in large cases, a little goes a LONG way, lots of data available for most pistol cartridges. Cons: runs hot (high nitro content), easy to double or triple charge, slightly temperature sensitive, scorches cases. There’s probably more I missed and someone is bound to disagree but that’s my experience. It’s probably the best powder for 9mm Kurz and 9mm Makarov if you like hot Euro-style loads for your Euro-style Pistoles.

I would tend to agree... I have TiteGroup, and I have .41's... but n'er the twain shall meet. It is a very good powder, I will grudgingly admit, in 9mm... which is where I'm going to burn this garbage up, and be done with it. Because it burns so hot, it is not my favorite for cast bullets.

FWIW... Powder Valley has BE-86, HS-6, TrueBlue, CFE-P, and CFE-B... right now... I'd pick any of those over TiteGroup. Will TiteGroup work? Yes, it will. Is it the best solution? Not in my view.

 

[CoalCrackerAl]

Cool thanks. I'll grab some Weds.

 

[AJC1]

Cool thanks. I'll grab some Weds.

Very interested in your satisfaction, results and impressions. Most of the 300blkout shooters buy it up here.

 

[brewer12345]

I hear the president likes tight grope...

I have used pounds of it in 9mm for target. I got a 4 pounder for cheap a few years ago and at 3.8 grains per shell it goes a long, long way. Reasonable target accuracy, not too much oomph for target loads, and clean burning. My only beef is that the brass does not eject too far and so I get bopped in the head a fair amount. Not sure it is a powder I would pick for larger cases, but if you are going for powder puffs in big cases it isn't a terrible choice.

 

[westernrover]

Just because you seem to do thouro testing did you try lilgun. It's like the magnum version of tightgroup. I don't have any yet but it's definitely on the list...

I bought 8 pounds of Lil'Gun because I thought it was going to be "the" powder for me. I started to do testing with it, but found I did not have the primers it might need for consistency. My results with non-magnum primers showed it was incredibly inconsistent and had significantly lower velocities than H110. It stinks too -- literally, when burned. I tried it with small magnum rifle primers. I had too much trouble with misfires due to light strikes in my revolvers, but when the primers did ignite, I still got inconsistent results. I'm not willing (or able) to buy magnum pistol primers in the present market, so I put the Lil'Gun away (for a couple of years now.)

There's also the lingering concern over throat/forcing-cone/barrel face erosion due to the reports published by Freedom Arms. Bob Baker speculated that the high NG content of Lil'Gun was the cause of the erosion he witnessed. I don't doubt he witnessed the erosion. He described cutting the forcing cone open several times to examine it. He didn't, however, have good evidence that the erosion was unique to Lil'Gun -- he did describe comparing two different loads of Lil'Gun to a load of H110, but not 300-MP, #9, N110... He just cut the forcing cone open, noticed erosion, believed it was unique to Lil'Gun, and speculated that it was the higher NG content versus H110, without comparing results of the same tests done with IMR 4227 or N-110 or some other single-base powder. It seems like he really jumped to a couple of conclusions there that might not be founded.

People have noted that Titegroup is also a high nitro-glycerin powder and that it heats up barrels. Theoretically, double-based powders with nitroglycerin should heat barrels a little more than single-base powders with only nitrocellulose, though the difference is recognized to be practically insignificant. It's odd though that people claim to notice the difference when the difference is actually impractical to discern without precise measurement.

As for erosion, Titegroup should produce comparatively little of it because it is a relatively fast powder and it is not burning meaningfully hotter than a single-base powder. Because it uses a relatively small mass of gas for a relatively short duration, the erosion should be minimal. A heavy charge of a progressive powder is going to produce a lot more hot gas over a longer duration, and that's going to result in more erosion of the heat-affected zone. Without a doubt, typical loads of H110 are going to erode a gun with fewer rounds than typical loads of Titegroup. I can't think of many powders that would be more gentle on a barrel than Titegroup, but possibly some of the comparable VV powders like N310 or N320. I can only imagine it would take more than 100,000 rounds to notice any difference.

 

[lordpaxman]

I got tightgroup during the last powder shortage when it was one of the only ones available. It does load a wide range of calibers, meters well, burns clean but does get erratic on the high end. Mind your COLs and setback and just make sure of the charge. If that’s the only powder you can get it’ll work fine.

 

[westernrover]

I might begin to sound like a shill for Titegroup, but I would mention that the reason you will find it available is that Hodgdon themselves consider it to be the go-to powder. It's not there on the shelf because it has been rejected and passed over by other reloaders. Hodgdon prioritizes it. I believe its equivalent is widely used in factory ammo, and so the powder factory (I believe it's produced at St. Marks that is under General Dynamics now) also prioritizes it. Hodgdon bills it as a more modern, technologically advanced handgun powder than many of the more traditional powders like W231.

Here's a Q&A with Chris Hodgdon (courtesy of www.hawaiireporter.com)

Q: Let’s get specific about specific applications for your powders. I heard from none other than Jerry Miceluk recently that his favorite powder for the 10mm is Longshot. I think readers would be interested in your choice of Hodgdon products for specific calibers. I realize that this is a rather broad question but what would your choices be for 9mm, 38 Special, .40, .44 Special and .45 target loads? Any suggestions for target loads in .357, 41 and 44 magnum?

A: Jerry Miceluk is a good guy and we are honored that he likes Longshot in his 10MM loads. My all around choice for a wide range of pistol cartridges ranging from the 380 Auto to the 500 Smith & Wesson Magnum is Titegroup: a perfect burning speed, clean burning, position in-sensitive(lights easily in the case in no matter if the powder is in a rearward or forward position) and bulk density is such that the reloader uses less grains for the same performance than other powders. The best thing about Titegroup is that it’s very competitively priced. Another favorite for truly magnum “no wimps” loads are with H110. H110 loves those big magnum cases and delivers true “fire breathing performance.”

There you go. From Chris Hodgdon himself, he considers Titegroup to be his choice for everything from 380 to 500 Magnum.

I remember one year at Shot Show some Hodgdon employees in the Hodgdon booth were asked what their favorite handgun powder was. At least two of them said Titegroup. It was probably in a video, so I couldn't find it with search.

 

[Charlie98]

There you go. From Chris Hodgdon himself, he considers Titegroup to be his choice for everything from 380 to 500 Magnum.

I would suspect that is based more on marketing and profitability than anything else. Yes, it's a versatile powder, but it has it's drawbacks, in much the same way Unique is versatile but has it's own drawbacks.

It's odd though that people claim to notice the difference when the difference is actually impractical to discern without precise measurement.

Hot is hot. Hotter is hotter. I don't need an infrared temperature sensor to tell me that.

 

[Bush Pilot]

"The title scared me a little"

At least according to the spelling checke/word changer/meaning deleter, the title is spelled correctly. I will see if I can edit it.

I hope you don't always trust GPS completely.

 

[Bill M.]

"I hope you don't always trust GPS completely"

Pulling a travel trailer for a lot of miles I have made some GPS following errors that were epic in their absurdity and inconvenience. And embarrassing to admit I did it. I am pretty much GPS shy past the amount I probably should be.

I just loaded 49 of the .41 Mag with Bayou Bullets and the lowest suggested charge of Titegroup to try out. Going to do some .357 with Acme bullets and Titegroup next. Will shoot them later in the week. I load single stage one at the time. I think/hope my technique is good enough for light charges. My most accurate heavy loads are with Lil Gun so I have some experience with a double base powder.

I bought the Titegroup about 10 years ago at the suggestion of a friend who shoots .45 Colt. I tried it with jacketed bullets and went back to the Universal and Blue Dot I was loading at the time. Now I am looking to replace my powder puff Trail Boss loads.