Time for an American Foreign Legion?

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The_Antibubba

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I've been thinking about this for a few days, and I wanted to toss it out (like a grenade, maybe?) to the group.

There is a growing problem of illegal immigration in our country. And while I agree that something must be done to tighten our borders, I understand their reasons for coming here-there's work, at wages they can't get at home (even though to us it's a slave wage), with enough to send home to families. America is the land of opportunity.

The process of legally immigrating is a long and difficult one, and I think it should be; we want the best of what the rest of the world can offer us. And for illegals, there is always a chance of being caught and sent back. Or never advancing beyond menial labor without proper paperwork.

So, what if we were to create a way for "irregular channel" immigrants to gain full citizenship, a decent wage, insurance, housing, education-the works? I'm talking about the creation of an American Foreign Legion.

Step across the border, enter a recruiting station, and become a legionnaire. Legionnaires would have to learn English in a certain amount of time, and military and American ideals could be drilled into them during their time of service, say, seven years? I'm talking training on the USMC level-very strenuous and diciplined. The smarter and more talented would advance into leadership roles; perhaps, after their legion service is over, they might join the American military. In any event, it gives us the time to create the kind of American citizens we want in this country. And in return, we get a very hardened source of troops. Deserters would suffer the fullest extent of punishment, but for the thousands of honest, hardworking illegals who come here, it would be the opportunity of a lifetime.

Thoughts?
 
Yeah, Rome tried it and dissimulated.


But we are already doing this. I have an old roommate from Kenya who is in our airforce. No citizenship.

I also know I read in the paper, well over a year ago that more than 20,000 non-citizen's had served in Iraq. It's already happening.
 
http://www.cis.org/articles/2003/markoped042203.html

About halfway down:

As most people didn't know until a month ago, the military welcomes enlistment of non-citizens; more than 37,000 lawful permanent residents (green-card holders) serve in the military, where they account for about three percent of active-duty personnel.

There are certain restrictions. You have to be a citizen to become an officer or join certain units, like the Navy SEALs. And, depending on the branch of the service, non-citizens may only be able to serve for one term (Air Force) or for a maximum of eight years (Army).

Such limitations implicitly acknowledge the fact that a member of a republic's armed forces ought to be a citizen of that republic. The naturalization law reinforces this notion by abbreviating the residency requirement from five years to three for non-citizens on active duty. And the president last year exercised his statutory authority by issuing an executive order waiving the residency requirement altogether for people on active duty in time of war.
 
I was under the impression we already had an American Legion of sorts. Very well paid "contractors" ....

I wonder if the US citizens would be as upset about "contractors" being killed if they knew that a lot of them are mercs......
 
um - Rome did this and it worked, when it failed was when Caracalla removed the "good" incentive for army service and made everyone into "full" citizens around the start of the third century.

Previously you had several grades of citizen - those of the "Latin" rights (limited self-determination, voting rights in their own settlement, service in the auxilia), those of the Roman right ("full" citizenship, tribal membership and the right to vote in Rome elections that went with it, service in the legions) and everyone else whose status was usually defined by treaty. Of course, the slaves didnt count, before or after Caracalla's change.

If you wanted full citizenship and didnt have it by birth, you could only get it by military service in the auxiliaries (either on discharge, or by some notable deed on the feed of battle... some auxiliary units have the initials cR after them, to indicate that the entire unit was granted Roman citizenship after such a feat), to achieve high political office in your own city or some other notable service.
 
Not a bad Idea. Were you thinking about maybe using ths "Legion" as a type of shock troop? Something along the lines of Uncle Sam's Misguided Children?
How big a unit were you thinking?
 
Something MEB-sized would give enough staying power and firepower for most dustups in the third world.

Maybe an additional MEU-sized "peacekeeping" specialized force for that sort of mission (OOTW). Lots of MP type units with psyops, intel and engineering/medical stuff. Win the "hearts and minds" stuff with the Legion's combat assets offshore or out of view for the steel fist in the velvet glove.

We could then save the citizen forces for big threats and major regional conflicts.

I KNOW I read all this before, including out of CONUS basing for the force. (Diego?)
 
It's our current Army. We don't need a different system. Depending on the number you see we're up to about 10% foreign nationals.

We'll even give non-citizens a commission now! I know since I have served with a Army CPT who was not a citizen even though they were 40 and had graduated from high school in the states. One must wonder about where their loyalty lies though.

Have heard about other commissioned officers (non-citizens) who would make very vile remarks about America and would comment about how valuable their knowledge would be to their "home" country. Of course, this was after we paid for all their schooling.

We don't need a foreign legion given the situation we already have.
 
That's the phrase I was looking for-shock troops. And Rome fell because it's "foreign" troops outnumbered the citizen soldiers.

There's another. more subtle idea behind this. Say it's implemented. A decade down the road, the Mexican government begins to realize that there is a growing number of it's sons who have been educated in the idea of democracy and fairness for all, and who have been trained and are experienced from fighting on numerous Third World battlegrounds. Soldiers who are regularly visiting their homeland, which they only left because of endemic poverty, corruption, and lack of opportunity. I imagine the leaders will start to discourage the illegal immigration that led to these circumstances, while many of the Legionnaires will start thinking about the changes that ought to made at home. Maybe we can't bring democracy to Iraq, but Mexico?
 
American Foreign Legion?

Actually, if it's all the same to you, I wouldn't want to pattern ANYTHING in this country after the French. :neener:
 
oh come on, rome's fall had nothing to do with foreign troops. please.

i think it's a good idea, but the foreign legion should never be housed in the US. we'll leave those units in places like germany and japan and afghanistan, etc.

after 4 yrs service, if they speak english and can pass a civics test, then they can be citizens.

reducing our standing army would be a good idea too. (keep investing in military technology and bombers and boats, etc. though, just reduce the folks in the army)
 
The problem with foreign units is that they are more willing to use force against civilians of their adoptive country. Think what would have happened if it were a bunch of Columbian mercenaries at Kent State rather than the National Guard.
 
We are supposed to be a Republic, not an Empire. Using paid foreign soldiers or mercenaries does not seem like a good way to preserve the Republic.

Would you also support just outsourcing the US military with troops from say India? India has a large population and could easily provide us with infantry troops for a fraction of what we are currently paying.
 
that's exactly why i said i thought it would be a good idea if they were housed only on foreign soil :)
 
That's why you keep them out of the country by law and leave control of the mobility and logisitics assets in the hands of the larger, more militarily capable citizen forces.

If they are in Diego Garcia without boats, they aren't coming in-country but by our leave. If tehy are dependent on us to feed them, they aren't likely to revolt anyway.

Besides, they won't be "the scum of the earth" they will be screened and desirous of the eventual citizenship prize.
 
reducing our standing army would be a good idea too.
Click to expand...

We should definitely not cut the size of the standing army as long as China is building up its army and making insane threats and eyeing every bit of dirt within 1000 miles for invasion potential.
 
Didn't we train some Mexican special forces and then have them leave their jobs to work for the drug cartels? :scrutiny:
 
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