I looked at a M&P compact a few weeks ago. It was alright. Nothing special. I just brought home a fullsize M&P 9mm. Glock's glory days are over. Unless they get off their laurels and do some radical, long overdue, grip frame and cosmetic changes, the M&P is going to eat their lunch.
Time to eat crow...M&P style
- Thread starter Brasso
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I know what you mean. I went in with my heart set on getting a .45 and the Glock 21CF (compact frame) was what I had in mind, but the guy behind the counter also brought up the Smith and wesson M&P .45 w/ Safety and I about abandoned the idea of getting the Glock. I'm now really leaning towards getting the M&P next month when I get my bonus. The only thing the 21CF had going for it was the larger capacity 13+1, versus the M&P's 10+1.
I'm going to the range this weekend to see if I can rent both to shoot. I like the slide release on the M&P better, it also has a more contoured grip that fit my palm better and I like the fact that it has an actual safety. But they are essentially the same size.
I'm going to the range this weekend to see if I can rent both to shoot. I like the slide release on the M&P better, it also has a more contoured grip that fit my palm better and I like the fact that it has an actual safety. But they are essentially the same size.
wally
Member
I'm not a Glock fan, but at least spare mags for the Glocks are cheap and plentiful. The M&P isn't looking so good unless I find a source for spare mags for reasonable prices. Even CDNN wants $35 for a M&P mag vs $17 for Glock mags.
I like to have enough mags to load at least 50 rounds so I can stuff them before heading to the range in air-conditioned comfort instead of standing in the heat at the range repeatedly stuffing mags. My favorite range guns have enough mags for 100 or 200 rounds.
--wally.
I like to have enough mags to load at least 50 rounds so I can stuff them before heading to the range in air-conditioned comfort instead of standing in the heat at the range repeatedly stuffing mags. My favorite range guns have enough mags for 100 or 200 rounds.
--wally.
Texshooter
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- Jan 22, 2004
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- 481
But, but don't you know about
"The Perfection"
Nothing can improve on Perfection.
Love my M&P.
"The Perfection"
Nothing can improve on Perfection.
Love my M&P.
HeedJSU
Member
bought my M&P compact 40 last week. I got a lot of pressure to buy a glock; really, REALLY glad I didn't
Welcome to the revolution.
Justin
Welcome to the revolution.
Justin
cbsbyte
Member
I doubt the M&P will eat Glocks lunch. Maybe cut into Glocks sales, but with the issues Smith has been having with the first run of M&Ps I doubt very much they will surpass Glock anytime soon. Also Glock has a 20+ year claim for fame, that Smith and all the other Manufactures don't have. Which leads me to my last point, that their are a dozen manufactures that make "combat Tupperware" and Glock is still on top of the pack. Now saying that, I would probably buy an M&P over a Glock, but the reason is that Glocks made after 1998 are not approved for sale in Massachusetts, so the price for a used pre1998 model is at a premium, and the only other plastic pistol being sold in state is the Walther P99s (fugly).
IMO, the only way Glock has anything over the M&P is:
1. Specific ergonomics. Some people's hands just plain fit the Glock. If they do, that's great; the glock is probably better for that person. However, I think that most people would be better served with the multiple backstraps and general ergos of the M&P. Same with the trigger...some people just like Glock triggers. Most don't, but some do.
2. The Glock has a much longer track record for reliability. They're not perfect, but they're pretty good. The M&P is just starting out. That's not S&W's fault- a new gun is a new gun- but a long rep for reliability is a definite plus for Glock
Other than that? I can't really see anything the Glock has going for it over the M&P.
Mike
1. Specific ergonomics. Some people's hands just plain fit the Glock. If they do, that's great; the glock is probably better for that person. However, I think that most people would be better served with the multiple backstraps and general ergos of the M&P. Same with the trigger...some people just like Glock triggers. Most don't, but some do.
2. The Glock has a much longer track record for reliability. They're not perfect, but they're pretty good. The M&P is just starting out. That's not S&W's fault- a new gun is a new gun- but a long rep for reliability is a definite plus for Glock
Other than that? I can't really see anything the Glock has going for it over the M&P.
Mike
Not to mention the M&P is made in USA, the lifetime warranty, and as I've said before, it won't take S&W long to start making drop in trigger packages for the M&P line, similar to the Glocks. The aftermarket has started to promote M&P specific products also, so it won't be too long before Smith starts to cut into the Glock sales.
Eightball
Member
Ergos have a whole lot to do with it, then the trigger pull; but a good trigger is worthless without good ergos.
M&P has good ergos (to me), can't say much about the trigger yet--never fired one.
M&P has good ergos (to me), can't say much about the trigger yet--never fired one.
hostilecrab
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- 62
I would have to agree that the M&P has better ergonomics than the Glock.
But I still prefer the Glock because of the trigger reset.
I like the Glock reset because it is really firm and obvious.
The M&P reset is very subtle and too gentle for me. Don't care for it.
But I still prefer the Glock because of the trigger reset.
I like the Glock reset because it is really firm and obvious.
The M&P reset is very subtle and too gentle for me. Don't care for it.
Hmmm... Sigma, H&K, SigPro, HS, Steyr, XD, and now the M&P... all have been reportedly Glock's replacement in the market... yet none have achieved it... nor will they, as none are as simply superb as the Glock. It is by far, the best combination of simplicity of design, durability, reliability, ease of use, ease of maintenance and ease of modification.
Nothing else even comes close to combining all the features that makes Glock auto pistols as popular as they are.
It is fun watching the contenders come and go, and variety is a good thing... for those who need it!
Nothing else even comes close to combining all the features that makes Glock auto pistols as popular as they are.
It is fun watching the contenders come and go, and variety is a good thing... for those who need it!
I have both. I carry the M&P9, I shoot the Glock 34 in competition. I have big hands and the Glock just fits better. If the Glock had a longer beavertail then it would be perfect. Like them both the same. And why do mags for the M&P cost $40...? Whats up with that? You would think S&W would help their cause greatly if they were in the $20 range.
johndoe1027
Member
Me too. No crap. I was holding a G26 then a XD 9sc. The girl behind the counter asked why I wasn't trying out a M&P. I said "A what?". She handed me the M&P 9c, I held it for exactly 2 seconds and politely asked if she would put the XD and the Glock back in the case. It's been on my side ever since.
As for the mags, were Glock mags really cheap in the first year of production?
You are comparing apples to oranges right now since S&W is barely keeping the guns on the shelves, much less having time to make extra mags.
Also, yes some M&P's have had problems (not mine in 1300 rounds) but were the first run of Glocks absolutely perfect? I wasn't into guns then so I don't know.
S&W has a good chance with the M&P. If their smart I'm sure they'll steal a page from Glock's marketing strategy and offer the guns to LEO agencies at a substantial discount. If they can penetrate that market deeply enough they can use that to promote the guns for civvie shooters. They specifically designed the M&P to address the concerns departments have with Glocks. That's why you don't have to pull the trigger to dissassemble the M&P and why they offer it with, and without, a mag disconnect safety.
The "bundle" package of a M&P pistol and a M&P AR patrol rifle is also something S&W offers that Glock doesn't offer.
Glock has the market right now. Give it a few years and I think we'll see the M&P start to really hit Glock where they live.
I will say the 20 + years headstart Glock has is still a huge advantage though. Glocks will never "go away," but the M&P is going to give them a fight down the line.
The "bundle" package of a M&P pistol and a M&P AR patrol rifle is also something S&W offers that Glock doesn't offer.
Glock has the market right now. Give it a few years and I think we'll see the M&P start to really hit Glock where they live.
I will say the 20 + years headstart Glock has is still a huge advantage though. Glocks will never "go away," but the M&P is going to give them a fight down the line.
Texshooter
Member
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- Jan 22, 2004
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- 481
It is truly funny when people talk about Glock reliability.
How many secret "recalls" (they in an immoral fashion call them upgrades) has Glock had?
From the early 90's to the recent frame fiasco?
The Glock realiability has nothing on the M&P. Being on the market longer, for the simple fact it was introduced earlier, has nothing to do with reliability.
And the number of LEOs that carry Glock has nothing to do with performance or reliability. It has to do with the weapons being given away for nothing.
How many secret "recalls" (they in an immoral fashion call them upgrades) has Glock had?
From the early 90's to the recent frame fiasco?
The Glock realiability has nothing on the M&P. Being on the market longer, for the simple fact it was introduced earlier, has nothing to do with reliability.
And the number of LEOs that carry Glock has nothing to do with performance or reliability. It has to do with the weapons being given away for nothing.
Pecos21
Member
I agree with 9x19. The M&P is just the latest fantastic plastic. It's starting to create the same craze that the XD did. There's a ton of decently priced polymer combat pistols out there right now. They are all accurate and reliable.
To claim that any of them are better than the other is just plain crazy. They will all run about the same. The key is that they will fit peoples hands differently and that is why a diversified selection is good; you get to choose the gun that fits you the best.
To claim that any gun will replace another in the market is also absurd. Glock has been losing market share every time ANY new pistol is introduced to the market and they are still selling people on their simplicity and reliability every day.
All these new plastics have a long way to go to prove themselves as much as the Glock and the HK have.
To claim that any of them are better than the other is just plain crazy. They will all run about the same. The key is that they will fit peoples hands differently and that is why a diversified selection is good; you get to choose the gun that fits you the best.
To claim that any gun will replace another in the market is also absurd. Glock has been losing market share every time ANY new pistol is introduced to the market and they are still selling people on their simplicity and reliability every day.
All these new plastics have a long way to go to prove themselves as much as the Glock and the HK have.
johndoe1027
Member
That's what I was wondering. People make it out to be that every Glock ever made was perfect right from the get go (even in the early days). I don't buy that. They would have to delay the release by at least a year for thorough testing.
dhoomonyou
Member
Thats why Ice Cream comes in so many flavors.
Im not knocking the MP, LETS see where they are in a couple of years.
IN The meantime I will keep my GLOCK.
Im not knocking the MP, LETS see where they are in a couple of years.
IN The meantime I will keep my GLOCK.
The M&P's trigger reset is, I believe, very easily tweaked.
I dunno if the M&P will supplant the Glock, but S&W is sure going to give it a go. They're doing one thing that Springfield, at least, has not done: they are making a concerted effort to make inroads into the LE market. They're doing it in the method already mentioned: bulk discounts to LE agencies, one for one trades (give us your old handguns, we'll give you a brand new M&P), package deals (rifle and handgun), and marketing S&W as a one-stop-shop for your firearms needs. XD, I don't believe has done any of that, or if they have, they have not been successful. HK has tried, and been reasonably successful, but they tend to be a pain in the butt to deal with, customer-service-wise (nothing makes departments want to go elsewhere like being a butt about fixing your guns). S&W will bend over backwards for a department.
Glocks are good. They're firmly entrenched. However, I think the general message is that even if the M&P, or any other single pistol line, fails to supplant the Glock as "the" sidearm of LE, the days of Glock being unchallenged atop the duty-gun heap are waning. Many of the guns mentioned previously (SigPro, M&P, XD, HK, etc) are all quite good. As good as a Glock? That's for individual users to decide...but the proliferation of viable choices alone will eat into Glock's marketshare.
Mike
I have a fullsize and a compact 9mm. I love both! I can shoot them MUCH more quickly and accurately than any Glock I've shot. The ergos are worlds better and I have had NO problems with either one in several hundred rounds. I wouldn't trade either one for two Glocks.
Regional differences are also interesting... There are three local shops and a Gander Mountains within 20 miles of my house. Gander Mountain is the only one stocking S&Ws... I don't work there so won't pretend to know if they are flying off the shelves or just up space, but when I'm near the pistol counter, I see folks buying Kimbers, Glocks, and XDs... haven't witnessed a single sale of an M&P, but I'm sure they must have sold some.
I've played with them, and shot a couple that friends have bought online... They are better than the Sigmas, but don't offer me anything over the Glock.
YMMV
I've played with them, and shot a couple that friends have bought online... They are better than the Sigmas, but don't offer me anything over the Glock.
YMMV
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