Time to talk...

[loop]

Don't wanna start a poll...
But, want to ask for some opinions.
We are shown constantly on TV and in the movies that once people feel they have the upper hand by pointing a gun that it is now time to initiate a conversation.
I've actually lost track of the number of times I've exchanged lead with assorted unsavory characters, but vividly recall the one time that conversation ensued after I pointed my firearm at someone.
I was sweating bullets (forgive the pun) until PD arrived.
First question is: If you thought you could talk your way out of the situation AFTER you aimed your gun, would you?
Second question: Would you hesitate because you felt you held the upper hand?
Third question: Have you done it and what did you do?
Statement: Fortunately, to the best of my knowledge, I've never killed anyone in a firefight, although I know I have wounded.
Final question: Does the mere act of brandishing a firearm when under threat mean you are actually prepared to pull the trigger?
Just me being curious...

 

[DragonFire]

If you're not prepared to fire, than you shouldn't have drawn the gun, and you probably shouldn't be carrying. It is movie-magic that everyone starts following orders once you draw your gun. Maybe they will, maybe they won't.

As a mental excerise ask youself this question, you've drawn your gun and yelled "freeze, drop the knife" (or bat or whatever), and the bad guy looks at you and says "F*** you". Now what do you do? Maybe you issue a couple more verbal commands, but you don't start a conversation!

At the point that I'm drawing my gun, it's the bad guy that has to change my mind about firing. He has to stop the threat and either leave immediately, or start following my orders. I do not plan to have a conversation with him. If I don't shoot immediately, I know the bad guy will lie and plead, and anything else he can think of to get the upper-hand again.

Actions are quicker than reaction. Standing there waiting for the cops or whatever, your concentration should be on every move the bad guy makes, not having any kind of conversation. If he suddenly lunges at you, you need to be ready to respond.

This also can work in your favor. Say you're being assaulted as gun point. The bad guy tells you walk down an alley (or into the back room or wherever). You know that mostly likely means he wants to take you someplace secluded to kill you. Do you just follow his orders since "he has a gun"? NO!! You start talking (and begging and yelling) to maybe distract him abit, and then YOU take action. Run, or attack, or throw something. Your chances may not be great, but they would be better than just letting yourself be killed without trying.

 

[The Bushmaster]

If I have to remove my firearm from concealment there will be the smell of gunsmoke in the air...Talking is over when this happens or I wouldn't have drawn it...

 

[Markbo]

I've actually lost track of the number of times I've exchanged lead with assorted unsavory characters

I find that sentence.... disturbing. Just what do you do for a living - or in general - that places you in a position to be in shoots outs more than you can remember????? Perhaps there is another more important question to ask, like why are you in so many shootouts?

 

[Christianninja]

It's because he's cool and mysterious.

If I draw my gun, it's because someone or something needs shot, not to point and talk. I'm not good enough at impromptu dramatic dialog.

 

[MCgunner]

What's a movie without dialog? Real life is not a movie.

 

[-terry]

Tuco? Tuco?

 

[Six O'clock Tactical]

Markbo, Im only assuming here, but hes probably MIL.

 

[highorder]

I had the same thought. Even as an LEO in Detroit, you'd probably have to work for 30 years to "lose track of" how many firefights you've been in.

 

[Run&Shoot]

Talking worked once, but I was brandishing, not pointing the gun.

When I was a teenager we had trespassers on our beach that were stealing oysters. It had gotten so bad that a beach once covered in big oysters was pretty much barren. I happened to go down to the beach one day when everyone else was gone from the house and found a sail boat pulled up and several people with buckets scurrying around picking up oysters.

I asked thenm to stop and get off our beach but they laughed. So I ran up to the house and returned with the Mossberg 500. I held it at port arms and told them to get the hell off our beach. Again they laughed and one of them approached me saying, "What, you think you are going to shoot one of us over a bunch of oysters? I don't think so."

I though a about that and decided, yeah, you're right I am not going to shoot anyone over oysters. But then I noticed the beautiful 24 ft sailboat they had arrived in. So I replied, "You're right I am not going to shoot any of you. But in ten seconds I am going to start shooting your main sail to rags." Man, about eight of them ran like the dickens and had that boat launched in eight seconds flat.

So, I agree, that if you have reached the point of aiming then you are past the point of talking. But I think there is a case for brandishing before being ready to open fire. If the situation is one of danger then you should be pointing. But if it is to warn off a threat to property or person then brandishing has a role. In my case no one was closer than about 20 yds so they posed no immediate threat to my person. But they were on our property committing theft.

I have avoided many other situations by talking before brandishing or pointing or shooting, but sometimes talking while brandishing is more convincing. talking while pointing though I think puts you in danger of losing focus. If it is dangerous enough to aim, then you should be totally focused on the threat, not on negotiating.

I did call the sheriff afterward and of course a deputy came out 30 minutes later and did nothing about it. Usually the sheriff was more of the opinion that if its bad enough then the homeowner should shoot, and if it isn't bad enough to shoot then he isn't going to spend his time on paperwork.

 

[mljdeckard]

#1. If I ever drew on a guy, and the look in his eye said, "Oh ---t, he's got a gun, and immediately moved to surrender, I would not follow all the way through shooting. (If I perceived it in time.) But the gun should not come out until you have pretty much decided that you are way past talking.

2. If I perceived that for any reason deadly force was no longer justified, I would push the BG through the process of face-down on the floor, hands behind the head, legs crossed, from a safe distance. When the gun is out, there is no other conversation allowed. If they fail to comply with the surrender, the deadly force light is back on. (They are stalling to test your resolve and look for a way to overpower you. Don't give them the chance to see what might happen in the next ten seconds.)

3. No

Final: To ME, brandishing is showing your gun when you AREN'T prepared to pull the trigger. This is why it stays put until the deadly force light comes on. Brandishing is a crime in all states that I'm aware of. If your gun is out, and you DIDN'T think that deadly force was necessary, then you have to explain why it came out in the first place.

 

[Markbo]

Brandishing is definitely NOT illegal in Texas and in fact our CHL classes teach that particularly in a road rage type scenario, that is totally preferable to shooting someone if you have no alternative, i.e. de-escalate, de-fuse and de-part are no longer viable options.

 

[AZAndy]

Loop, since you're an Arizona resident, you probably know that it's locally legal to brandish in order to protect property (by which I mean remove trespassers). That said, my pistol isn't going to come out until it's time to shoot. I might be shouting "drop the weapon" or "stop" as I'm reaching for my gun, but that's it.

 

[marksman13]

I'm also interested in what it is the OP does for a living. I was in Iraq for a little over a year and I can count the number of real shoot outs I was in on both hands, eight. Exactly eight. Being shot at by a sniper and not being able to return fire doesn't count as a shoot out.

Not calling the OP a liar, but the post does sound like it may contain some exagerations.

 

[Fat Boy]

I don't know exactly how to say this; I don't want to be offensive. I guess I am a bit disturbed by the seemingly casual attitude towards "exchanging lead"...I have never been in a "gunfight", hopefully I never will be. For me drawing, or otherwise using a gun in dealing with a threat is a matter of last resort. As the old guys in my years of growing up taught me on numerous hunting excursions; "never point a gun at something you aren't planning to shoot"...

 

[Okiecruffler]

If I draw a weapon it means I've exhausted all other options. I seriously doubt that the assailant would be able to react fast enough to convince me not to fire at that point.

 

[biscuitninja]

They its call a Concealed Carry Permit, not Brandish Carry Permit. I lose all advantage if he knows I'm carrying a weapon.
Anyways good luck
-bix

 

[1911Tuner]

Pointing a gun at someone with a gun in hand...and then opening a dialogue is an excellent way to get shot. Even if he has the gun in one hand, pointed straight down bu his side...and you've got the sights on him, finger on trigger...he can still work inside your reaction time and get off a shot on or just before your hammer falls. If he's a good point-shooter, or just lucky...and he makes a quick side-step just as he raises his gun...you're shot and he's not. If he doesn't make the side-step and you've got above average reflexes...you can argue over who won or lost on the way to the ER...or the morgue.