Tip-Down Carry?

[ugaarguy]

So does anyone have links to actual cases where this has happened?

If that is ever the case (and even in the unfree states, I strongly doubt that it is), and it was my misfortune to reside in such a jurisdiction,

A friend who's a federal agent had happen to him in NYC. An NYPD officer darn near tackled him. After verifying his credentials the NYPD officer told him not to have a knife clip showing from his pocket while he was there. I've been advised by a friend of a friend who's a Chicago PD officer to do likewise while anywhere in Cook county. Cross the line north into Lake county and they don't care.

 

[daniel craig]

I had a knife that was a button opener (hit button, blade pops open) I carried it too down because that out my thumb much closer to the button when taken from my pocket with thumb and forefinger, and when the blade flicked out the handle kicked back into my palm where I could grab it.

Carrying tip up required me to adjust my grip after pulling the knife out and opening the blade.

 

[Speedo66]

If that is ever the case (and even in the unfree states, I strongly doubt that it is), and it was my misfortune to reside in such a jurisdiction, I would make it my primary mission to move no matter the cost or trouble. I guess you could be spread-eagled on the tarmac and searched in such a state if you had the audacity to clip a ballpoint pen on your person.

So does anyone have links to actual cases where this has happened? How is law enforcement to know how long a blade is just by seeing a pocket clip? A visible pocket clip where I am doesn't constitute reasonable articulable suspicion to stop a citizen who's otherwise not engaging in visibly illegal behavior (i.e., entering a restricted area such as a courtroom, correctional facility, airport terminal, etc.) and perform a search of his/her person.

You may strongly doubt it, but the fact is in NYC, their administrative code forbids the open display of a knife, no need to see blade length.

The police, and the DA of Manhattan especially, take seeing the clip as open display. Many arrests for this. Doubt me or not, but as a retired NYS LEO who worked in NYC, I would caution you if there to carry a knife in your pocket, not clipped to it.

A simple Google search will give you more info on this than you'd probably care to read. NYC hate speech is really not necessary.

 

[SwampWolf]

NYC hate speech is really not necessary.

I must be missing something here. What are you talking about?

 

[jmr40]

As a rule I like tip up. But depending on the shape of the knife some just ride in the pocket better if they are tip down.

 

[WrongHanded]

I don't know if this has been mentioned yet, but tip down with certain knives can lend itself to a fast opening.

With the round hole of a spyderco, I pinch the hole, pull the knife up by the blade and rotate it 180 degrees, then snap the handle down off the blade with the flick of the wrist.

 

[daniel craig]

You may strongly doubt it, but the fact is in NYC, their administrative code forbids the open display of a knife, no need to see blade length.

The police, and the DA of Manhattan especially, take seeing the clip as open display. Many arrests for this. Doubt me or not, but as a retired NYS LEO who worked in NYC, I would caution you if there to carry a knife in your pocket, not clipped to it.

A simple Google search will give you more info on this than you'd probably care to read. NYC hate speech is really not necessary.

It’s important to realize that NYC is vastly different than the rest of the mostly rural state.


Also that every cop is different. Every cop makes a choice about what they will and will not enforce, it’s human. Some cops won’t give a flying fig Newton others will care very much.

 

[hso]

So does anyone have links to actual cases where this has happened? How is law enforcement to know how long a blade is just by seeing a pocket clip? A visible pocket clip where I am doesn't constitute reasonable articulable suspicion to stop a citizen who's otherwise not engaging in visibly illegal behavior (i.e., entering a restricted area such as a courtroom, correctional facility, airport terminal, etc.) and perform a search of his/her person.

Go to Knife Rights or look for our previous discussions about NYC and knife carry. Im sure you'll recall our discussions that NYC was notorious for treating displayed pocket clips as cause to stop and search and charge.

 

[Old Dog]

Go to Knife Rights or look for our previous discussions about NYC and knife carry. Im sure you'll recall our discussions that NYC was notorious for treating displayed pocket clips as cause to stop and search and charge.

Interesting. In July 2019 I spent a week in NYC visiting my daughter and other family; wandered the city with a folder clipped to my pocket. I actually initiated conversation with a couple very personable NYPD officers on the street (my team was in town to play the Yankees and I had to check out the "new" ball park).

So I discussed this issue with some of the folks I know in my little corner of the law enforcement community and we had a good laugh about having to be worried about citizens carrying folding knives. Up here, if you're not carrying any sort of knife, and anyone finds out, you have to turn in your man card.

 

[hso]

Much the same here, if you don't have a knife people wonder where you lost yours.

I personally carry enough knives to make up for those folks.

 

[daniel craig]

Much the same here, if you don't have a knife people wonder where you lost yours.

I personally carry enough knives to make up for those folks.

Forgot yours? No worries mate, I’ve got ten, I can lend you one till you find yours!

 

[Geno929]

I'm in agreement for deep pocket carry for a few reasons.

Potential loss is one of them, plus in some locations just seeing the clip by law enforcement is enough to get you arrested for displaying a knife where that's illegal.

I also do not wish to give away the fact I'm carrying a knife, period. Goes with my theory of not open carrying a firearm, why give away the element of surprise?

I think the low cost of many so called EDC or "Tactical Knives" is that they are meant to be lost, stolen or discarded. I wouldn't spend a great deal of money on most of those knives. My higher end knives are generally not what I choose for daily carry. If they are lost, big deal. I'm out 25 bucks, not the 300 for my quality Tanto or stainless dive knife. That being said, practice, practice, practice with your EDC knife, as well as your CCW. They work as a team along with other accouterment.

 

[joneb]

I prefer tip down as I carry my knives in smaller pockets found on work jeans, these smaller pockets often allow for only a thumb and finger grip near the exposed end of the knife. So if I can pull the knife form the blade pivot with my thumb and index finger the knife can be quickly deployed by rotating the wrist 90 degrees.
With a knife clipped in a large pocket I can see the favor for the tip up carry.

 

[Goosey]

Not to start an argument here, but why would anyone ever carry a “tactical folding knife” in the tip-down configuration?

Well, I think tip up is kinda crap on a larger knife. I reach in, pocket edge hits the web of my hand and the end of my thumb is left about 3/4"-1" from the thumbstud. I don't know why it's so popular, I think for style reasons.

Tip down, I reach in and I'm grabbing the thumbstud!

 

[Mikhail Weiss]

Not to start an argument here, but why would anyone ever carry a “tactical folding knife” in the tip-down configuration?

I’m anyone…

My knee-jerk reaction: it just doesn’t matter. That’s what gives. Personal preference.

That said...

That’s the way swords and daggers were classically carried, point down, and the prime parry was used do deflect an incoming attack when the blade was drawn.

The bigger handicap for folders, tip up or down, is that they are folders, and must first be unfolded to use the blade, which is always slower than simply unsheathing.

My years-behind-me competitive and training experience in foil, saber, épée, and FMA also tells me that this is a mole-hill of personal preference.

I don’t really mind which orientation is used in pocketknives I carry as much as I want a good detent in whatever I carry so it doesn’t accidentally open in a pocket and slice, skewer, or otherwise cause blood to leak from my hand when rummaging around in there.

Being slightly more analytical, tip-up carry means the deployed blade is pointing down when unfolded unless you rotate your hand. Tip-down carry means the blade is pointed up when unfolded unless you rotate your hand. For what it’s worth.

 

[sparkyv]

Happened to me in the ER of a Houston hospital last year. An overly anxious Rambo-type security guard saw my tip-down (see what I did there?) clipped knife in my back pocket and made me exit the building. TX law does not prohibit carrying a knife of less than 5 1/2" in a hospital (law changed several years ago), but there was no point in arguing with this blockhead especially since we were leaving shortly anyways.

So does anyone have links to actual cases where this has happened? How is law enforcement to know how long a blade is just by seeing a pocket clip? A visible pocket clip where I am doesn't constitute reasonable articulable suspicion to stop a citizen who's otherwise not engaging in visibly illegal behavior (i.e., entering a restricted area such as a courtroom, correctional facility, airport terminal, etc.) and perform a search of his/her person.

 

[lemaymiami]

The only advice my Dad ever gave me when I told him I was going into police work? Pretty simple, he said "Kid, don't be a prick..." and for me that said it. Wish I could say I always followed his advice. At that point in his life my Dad had seen and nearly done it all - including 28 years Corps of Engineers after volunteering for the draft in 1942...

Unfortunately in my 22 years as a cop I did meet more than a few that never got that advice (quite a few of them weren't in law enforcement either...).

My advice to anyone in a jurisdiction like NYC (just from what I've heard and read...) is to step lightly if you're unlucky enough to be there... All if takes is one self-righteous so and so to ruin your day if you let them...

 

[crestoncowboy]

tip up

I never really noticed or cared about tip up or down

Lol. I was thinking the same thing. "I don't know that I've ever seen one carried tip up".

Then I saw old dogs picture and realized I have about half of those.

So to me it doesn't matter. I certainly have no preference. I'm plenty fast with them either way. Never had an apple or package get away because I was too slow.

 

[11c1p]

Tip down, right hand. ready to go. on all my assisted opening knives

 

[Bobson]

Maybe my sorta-limited experience with different types of knives was a contribution to my naïveté on the subject. For instance, I’ve only ever owned fixed blade knives or “basic” folding knives with a lock-back design. Never owned a flipper, assisted-opening knife, etc. At any rate, I appreciate all the input on the topic. I actually wasn’t trying to stir anything up lol. I didn’t realize that, with certain techniques, opening could be equally quick (or maybe faster) depending on the type of knife regardless of tip orientation in the pocket.