Tips on Double Action Revolver shooting please

Couple o' thoughts on the DA trigger itself:

I'm one of those "straight pull" advocates, for a number of reasons: First, staging the trigger amounts to timing the shot, which target shooters will tell you is a futile effort. Worse, when you time the shot, you're very likely to really yank that trigger when you see you need to shoot...now.

And even if you don't excitedly yank the staged trigger, you're still likely to jerk it when you make that final pull, since movements are jerkiest at their beginning and end. Your pull at the break is more likely to be smooth if that break happens in the middle of the movement.

Finally, we tend to stage the trigger because we haven't really mentally committed to good shot execution when we started the pull. Your shot is more likely to be true if you mentally commit to executing an excellent shot when you started the pull.

Couple o' thoughts on general shot execution (because these can trip you up even if your DA trigger technique is good):

Peeking at the target between shots is a bad habit and a real accuracy killer. Unfortunately, it's a tough habit to break. It comes from wanting to shoot a good group, rather than wanting to execute the fundamentals for each and every shot well. IOW, it's because one's mind is on the goal, rather than the process, but without the process, the goal is for naught.

I've written it before, but it bears repeating: The target isn't important. It's really just a recording device that uses bullets to record how well you executed the fundamentals. The front sight does the same thing without making a hard copy, so put & keep your awareness there.

If the target's too distracting, get rid of it entirely, and shoot into the backstop or berm while executing one perfect shot after another.

Speaking of targets, use an official bullseye-type target appropriate for the distance. Don't use a piece of cardboard with a spraycan bullseye sprayed on it, some dumb zombie target, or even an ShootNC target. You need a target with a precise aimpoint and/or doesn't tempt you to peek.

Distance: don't stretch the distance much beyond what you're able to shoot good groups with. Your subconscious will know it's pointless to try for a good group, so you'll just practice taking what amounts to pot shots.

Tempo: When practicing your marksmanship skills (i.e., the fundamentals), take all the time you need. Shoot 5-shot groups, but make up your mind that each and every one of those those will represent your best effort. If you have to lower the gun, so be it (lower your gaze, too, so you don't peek).

Dry fire: Can't emphasize it enough, but it has to be quality dry fire. Not blindly yanking the trigger while you're watching TV. It's a trigger control exercise, but it's a vision exercise as well, in that you're training yourself to really focus on the front sight.
 
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Would anybody offer some tips on DA shooting with a pair of Colt Officer Target? I have matching gun .22 & .38

I can’t seem to get comfortable with the grip & trigger in DA.

Change the grip?

One nice thing about revolvers is that they don't have the grip shape constraints that automatics do.

I’m doing the pointer finger on the trigger guard grip. Front sight focus, and waiting for the Colt Click trigger pull.

Any other tips would be great!!
 
4 TIPS for you ...

1 -
Front sight, front sight, front sight ...

2 - Buy Brownell's 'Action Magic II' and apply to the lockwork per instructions, can easily drop a DA pull by 4-6 pounds

3 - Buy MORE 22LRs and practice, practice, practice ...

4 - Read #1 again and remember, all your attention should be on the FRONT SIGHT as the trigger breaks!
If I knew the effectiveness of Front Sight Focus earlier in my shooting life! I would probably be a Grand Master by now.
 
"I was staging the trigger. Colt has a click right before the hammer drops. I’ll try the non-stage smooth trigger pull. Learning is FUN. I have not tried my Smith yet. I assume it’s going to be way different from the Colt. One gun at a time. I also don’t care about shooting the snot out of these classics guns."

Love your attitude. Staging the trigger is pretty much just getting it to the SA spot and then aiming and squeezing the trigger afterwards. I have a friend who's really good at that.

It's harder to do, but I just go for one smooth squeeze. It's more challenging. You have to keep the sights where you want them the whole time. I'm going for smooth and steady. It's easier to keep the sights steady for long enough if you're not too slow. But if you go too quickly you jerk the trigger and ruin your shot. And so on. It's an art. :)

I'm a trigger Philistine in that they pretty much just feel "stiff" or "not stiff" overall, especially if I'm shooting them DA. I kinda notice the length of travel. To me, my decent Colts and Smiths and Taurii and Rugers all feel "good". My effective accuracy with the centerfire ones tends to be roughly the same, even if they feel a little bit different. After you put a cylinder through one, you pretty much know what to expect.
what a interesting skill… One Smooth Trigger Pull without disturbing the Front sight!

this will take tons of practice. Guess a Model 17-2 is calling me too. .22 DA is fun!
 
Couple o' thoughts on the DA trigger itself:

I'm one of those "straight pull" advocates, for a number of reasons: First, staging the trigger amounts to timing the shot, which target shooters will tell you is a futile effort. Worse, when you time the shot, you're very likely to really yank that trigger when you see you need to shoot...now.

And even if you don't excitedly yank the staged trigger, you're still likely to jerk it when you make that final pull, since movements are jerkiest at their beginning and end. Your pull at the break is more likely to be smooth if that break happens in the middle of the movement.

Finally, we tend to stage the trigger because we haven't really mentally committed to good shot execution when we started the pull. Your shot is more likely to be true if you mentally commit to executing an excellent shot when you started the pull.

Couple o' thoughts on general shot execution (because these can trip you up even if your DA trigger technique is good):

Peeking at the target between shots is a bad habit and a real accuracy killer. Unfortunately, it's a tough habit to break. It comes from wanting to shoot a good group, rather than wanting to execute the fundamentals for each and every shot well. IOW, it's because one's mind is on the goal, rather than the process, but without the process, the goal is for naught.

I've written it before, but it bears repeating: The target isn't important. It's really just a recording device that uses bullets to record how well you executed the fundamentals. The front sight does the same thing without making a hard copy, so put & keep your awareness there.

If the target's too distracting, get rid of it entirely, and shoot into the backstop or berm while executing one perfect shot after another.

Speaking of targets, use an official bullseye-type target appropriate for the distance. Don't use a piece of cardboard with a spraycan bullseye sprayed on it, some dumb zombie target, or even an ShootNC target. You need a target with a precise aimpoint and/or doesn't tempt you to peek.

Distance: don't stretch the distance much beyond what you're able to shoot good groups with. Your subconscious will know it's pointless to try for a good group, so you'll just practice taking what amounts to pot shots.

Tempo: When practicing your marksmanship skills (i.e., the fundamentals), take all the time you need. Shoot 5-shot groups, but make up your mind that each and every one of those those will represent your best effort. If you have to lower the gun, so be it (lower your gaze, too, so you don't peek).

Dry fire: Can't emphasize it enough, but it has to be quality dry fire. Not blindly yanking the trigger while you're watching TV. It's a trigger control exercise, but it's a vision exercise as well, in that you're training yourself to really focus on the front sight.
WOW! thanks for that! I mean, you are calling out all my bad habits. Especially Peaking
 
If I may offer one more tip: Make sure that your forearm, wrist, and gun barrel are in a straight line, so recoil is straight back and imposes no sideways torgue to your arm.

Bob Wright
That’s another thing I was trying. wrist to forearm to gun postings. I’ll try straight.
 
I'm a fine one to offer advice on DA shooting, Single Action man that I am. But back inthe distant past I did do some DA shooting.

Another tidbit: Start out slowfire in DA shooting. Be concious of you grip and trigger pull, and shoot for accuracy. Keep shooting slowly and deliberately keeping your shots in the black, and don't settle for shots in the "kill zone" of a silhouette target. Shoot at no more than a 6" dia. bullseye. Work for accuracy and slowly build up speed with follow up shoots.

Bob Wright
 
I'm a fine one to offer advice on DA shooting, Single Action man that I am. But back inthe distant past I did do some DA shooting.

Another tidbit: Start out slowfire in DA shooting. Be concious of you grip and trigger pull, and shoot for accuracy. Keep shooting slowly and deliberately keeping your shots in the black, and don't settle for shots in the "kill zone" of a silhouette target. Shoot at no more than a 6" dia. bullseye. Work for accuracy and slowly build up speed with follow up shoots.

Bob Wright
thanks bud!

This reminds me of Trap shooting. I’m a decent clay shooter but it took 10’s of thousands of shells to get good. Now, when I pick up a shootgun, any shotgun, it’s all muscle memory. See the bird, mount, shoot, follow thur. Hopefully I can get that way with a revolver
 
Ever shot a DA/SA semi automatic? Same thing!
Very true. I don't like either DA revolvers or DA semiautomatcs. The ergonomics just don't work for me.

With the Beretta 92FS / M9, I ended up removing the decocker (the hammer release lever), so that it could remain cocked with the safety on. (This is not truly "cocked and locked" because pulling the trigger in that condition will drop the hammer. But it won't make contact with the firing pin.) A better solution was the Taurus PT92, which can be truly "cocked and locked."

In other words, the idea is to convert a DA/SA pistol into pretty much a straight SA pistol, like the M1911.

A striker-fired gun like the Sig Sauer P320 sidesteps the whole issue.

Here's a question -- why are there no Double Action rifles? Wouldn't it make sense to keep your training consistent between rifles and handguns?
 
Very true. I don't like either DA revolvers or DA semiautomatcs. The ergonomics just don't work for me.

With the Beretta 92FS / M9, I ended up removing the decocker (the hammer release lever), so that it could remain cocked with the safety on. (This is not truly "cocked and locked" because pulling the trigger in that condition will drop the hammer. But it won't make contact with the firing pin.) A better solution was the Taurus PT92, which can be truly "cocked and locked."

In other words, the idea is to convert a DA/SA pistol into pretty much a straight SA pistol, like the M1911.

A striker-fired gun like the Sig Sauer P320 sidesteps the whole issue.

Here's a question -- why are there no Double Action rifles? Wouldn't it make sense to keep your training consistent between rifles and handguns?

Why are there no double rifles? Rifles are intended for precise shots at long range, so the finest let off is desired. And, there is no need for DA in the rifle. The first movement of the DA trigger is to rotate the cylinder and cock the action. In a repeating rifle, the bolt, lever, or slide performs the action of cocking. Even in the handgun, when precise shooting is required, the trigger is in single action mode.

(Not too sure, but it seems I have heard of rifles/carbines with DA triggers. This on cap-and-ball carbines where the hammer is at half cock just off the cap and nipple.) And, as to oddities, wasn't there a semi-auto rifle that was a single shot? Firing the rifle ejected the spent case, cocked the action, and left the bolt open?

Bob Wright
 
If I may offer one more tip: Make sure that your forearm, wrist, and gun barrel are in a straight line, so recoil is straight back and imposes no sideways torgue to your arm.

Bob Wright

How do you do this? I'm right-handed. The only position I can get into in which the barrel, wrist and forearm are in a straight line, and which allows my master right eye to look down the sights is when I face 90 degrees to the left, looking directly over my right shoulder.

If I hold the gun in both hands, the barrel and sights are going to align with my right eye, my right wrist will be hyperextended backwards a bit. My right forearm will be pointing a bit left of the target. My line of sight will not be over my right forearm.

Honest, I'm not trying to be a smartass. I have great respect for your opinion and ability. I have heard this recommendation to have barrel, wrist and forearm in a straight line before, and it has always seemed to me to be anatomically impossible.
 
How do you do this?...I'm not trying to be a smartass....I have heard this recommendation to have barrel, wrist and forearm in a straight line before, and it has always seemed to me to be anatomically impossible

+1

Often offered on the interweb, but it's never made sense to me, either. Even the great Jerry Miculek makes that recommendation in one of his vids, but when you watch him actually shoot, the gun certainly isn't in line with his wrist & forearm.

IMO, a neutral grip & stance is optimal. Forget the push/pull Weaver thing - just something else to do consistently and doesn't do much anyway, IMO. For 2-handed DA shooting, I recommend an isosceles stance & neutral grip. Your grip is neutral when there no push/pull on the gun & the front sight returns to it's starting place on it's own. Think of grabbing a piece of tissue paper between your gripped hands - you can grip firmly, but a neutral grip won't tear the tissue.
 
Quote: A striker fired like the Sig 320 sidesteps the entire issue….


Just don’t drop your Sig!
It might bite you!
I once had a Jennings J20, in a holster, with the safety ON, fall out of my pocket, hit a brick flower planter and bit me on the calf of my right leg… still have the scars to prove it…

I’m just fine with my d/a autos and revolvers…

Dry fire is also a must with the striker fired pistols.
My older brother in the 70’s shot on the USAF Security Police pistol team. They were armed with worked over S&W Model 15’s. They held their own in the Florida PPC league shooting as unclassified class as military wasn’t allowed to compete in NRA registered or regional matches. He shot 11th in the ‘77 NATO matches in rifle/pistol match.
When he retired he was working for a contractor to DOD for security at a NBC (nuclear, biological, chemical warfare) facility. They were issued Glock 22’s . He was having trouble shooting a decent score. I spent an afternoon with him showing him my grip, stance, and trigger pull technique. we followed up day with several sessions of dry firing. Next qualifications, he shot highest score in the agency…

Dry firing matters…
 
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How do you do this? I'm right-handed. The only position I can get into in which the barrel, wrist and forearm are in a straight line, and which allows my master right eye to look down the sights is when I face 90 degrees to the left, looking directly over my right shoulder.

If I hold the gun in both hands, the barrel and sights are going to align with my right eye, my right wrist will be hyperextended backwards a bit. My right forearm will be pointing a bit left of the target. My line of sight will not be over my right forearm.

Honest, I'm not trying to be a smartass. I have great respect for your opinion and ability. I have heard this recommendation to have barrel, wrist and forearm in a straight line before, and it has always seemed to me to be anatomically impossible.

O.K. I see what you mean and agree with what you say. From the position you describe, rotate your gun hand ninety degrees forward and bring your chin down to about your right bicep and grasp your shooting hand with your off hand. Having the gun on target, flex your knees slightly and step forward with your left foot a comfortable distance. Shift your feet so that you are as steady as possible.

Bob Wright
 
da should be easy for you since you already do front sight-press trigger-follow through on clays. Instead of moving side-to-side, you are moving back-to-front.

and dry fire practice a lot until you get the rhythm down pat.

luck,

murf
 
In decades of shooting, I just naturally go to the
Weaver stance in two-handed DA shooting.

That's where the arm with the gun is slightly bowed
downward, my head tilted slightly to the shooting
arm and the off-hand arm is bowed nearly
horizontal to my body.

While I shoot with both eyes open, I've learned that
if I shoot right-handed, the right eye concentrates
on the front sight; left-handed my left eye
concentrates on the front sight.

Also, right hand left foot slightly forward; left hand
right foot is slightly forward.

The Weaver stance is pretty much passe among
handgun trainers nowadays. But I'm nearly passe
myself. :)
 
da should be easy for you since you already do front sight-press trigger-follow through on clays. Instead of moving side-to-side, you are moving back-to-front.

and dry fire practice a lot until you get the rhythm down pat.

luck,

murf
oooh… so your saying track the target with a back and forth … and follow thur… interesting
 
Switching to the grip on the left made a big difference for me. Might only work with smaller revolvers but I feel like the gun is locked into place when I pull the long trigger

View attachment 1157556


(source: MICULEK2 (shootingusa.com))

Thank you. I kind of already follow this way of gripping for revolvers when shooting two-handed. Just yesterday I was shooting my S&W model 63 and my trigger finger was bumping into my left thumb. I plan to try wrapping my thumbs like Jerry M suggests next time.
 
pulling a ten pound trigger is going to require a concistent pull. maybe, imagine a straightaway shot on a clay.

murf
So much to learn! Might have some live range time tomorrow or Monday!
 
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