Tips on shooting a .357

[Alan Fud]

I've been shooting auto's for nearly a quarter of a century and have no problem accurately shooting the major defensive calibers (9mm, .40S&W and .45ACP -- no .357SIG yet ).

I only recently (the past half dozen years or so) started shooting revolvers and it took me some practice for me to become accurate with them except ...

... no matter how much I practice, I can seem to be able to shoot a J-frame .357magnum accurately. I'm able to do okay with the .357 in a L-frame and I can shoot the J-frame with .38 loads in it but I just can't seem to be able to do it with .357 loads.

Do I just need more practice? Any tips / pointers anyone can offer?

 

[Mark whiz]

My advice would be to put in a lot of dry-fire practice with the J-frame. Watch carefully what happens to your sight picture when you pull the trigger slowly & at normal speeds. The problem is probably nothing more than a fit/form issue that can be cleared up with a change in grip & trigger hold.

Good Luck.

 

[bountyhunter]

.

I can shoot the J-frame with .38 loads in it but I just can't seem to be able to do it with .357 loads.

Shooting full magnums out of a J-frame will make most people flinch. You could try the old blind load and spin the cylinder trick to see if you are moving.

 

[Dienekes]

The .357 is quite a handful in a K or L frame, let alone a J. I used to qualify LEOs with the .357/125 loads and while the average **highly motivated** person can handle it pretty well, it takes solid skills and determination to do it. Our qualification course required 60 rounds, from 3-25 yards. We would generally fire more than that either as warm-up or in additional exercises. The troops not only qualified but generally scored up in the 285 plus range out of 300. The highest scoring ring was an oval ring about 6" x 10" center mass on a silhouette.

I trained people pretty hard; lots of emphasis on good DA skills, dry fire, ball & dummy, practical skills, extra firing and additional exercises. There was usually a fair amount of adrenalin flowing and things went fast. If the groups fired were too good they were shooting too darned slowly. Jerry Mikulek comments that one of the reasons he got to shooting speed work was that it pre-empted his flinch! Something to that.

I wore out two barrels on Security Sixes with these loads so I went through a few cases of this stuff. Also did a lot of fast w/c work as well. Most of it really is mental. My usual piece is an reliable old Security Six with smooth Spegel wood grips. The gun bounces, but I have gotten used to it and enjoy it --up to a point. My practice load is about a 90% duplicate of the factory load which gives about the same feel but is just a bit easier on the gun.

My experience with J frame .357s is limited; I got a M60 3" FL .357 intending to replace my otherwise identical M60 .38 Special. It shot spectacularly well but was just about all the recoil I wanted. I could never get the DA to equal the older M60 so turned loose of it to a friend (who later blew it up).

I think the .357/125 is perhaps the best defense round out there, and will probably stay with it forever. It is a bit much in a J frame and I frankly prefer my 442/.38 in that sized package. Guess I don't need to flaunt my manhood quite that much.

Everybody has a recoil tolerance including me. Since all pistols are underpowered for the job as it is, probably the best we can do is pick one that is stone reliable that suits us and wear the blue off it. That should suffice.

 

[Jim March]

357 in a J is going to be wild no matter what. In "Scandium", downright psycho.

We're starting to see some real attention paid to 38+P loads meant for snubbies. I think that once the test data is in and we know what we're looking at, these may replace Magnums in a lot of people's small guns.

 

[stans]

I have, and carry daily, a S&W 640-1. That is a J-frame, 357 Magnum, with a 2 1/8 inch barrel. It also wears Uncle Mike's rubber boot grips. It is a real handful with 125 grain magnum loads and two to four cylinder fulls is enough, expecially since the 7 to 15 yard firing line at my range has a metal roof over the firing line. Way loud, even with plenty of hearing protection! I dry fire often and that helps tremendously. Practice with 38 Specials or handload some magnum cases to 38 Special ballistics. Work up slowly to your desired carry load. That's really all the advice I have.

 

[Stainz]

Jim and stans have great suggestions. For most civilian protection, a .357 Magnum, originally designed to pierce fleeing felon's car doors, is too much anyway. Even the infamous 158gr LHPSWC in .38 Special +P is still regarded as a decent stopping round from a snubby.

As a part-time range officer at a local range, I have helped a number of newcomers - especially with those new and reduced price 637/642's and +P loads. The universal problem is flinching... the skipped cylinder really helps there. Another problem area is the stance - just going from 158gr RNL reloads to some .38 +P - will show an improvement, should you change from the no-recoil flat feet parallel to the proper fore-aft and lean into stance. Another great improvement over those dimunitive J-frame boot grips is a simple grip change. Even the <$20 Hoque grips, just ~ 5/8" longer, are a great aid to medium and larger hands, albeit at a CC cost.

As a plinker, my .357's see .357 cases loaded to ~ .38 +P levels maximum. I have really enjoyed watching my wife improve her shooting skills with a new-to-us 3" 65 and those rounds (158gr LSWC over 4.1 gr TiteGroup in .357 case ~ 866 fps from a 6" 66.) as I replaced the smaller grips with a slick wood (Hoque goncalo alves) and she shot the 5/6 rounds, improved her stance, etc. She 'discovered' how to shoot better... after my 'suggestions', which she ignored - of course!

Stainz

 

[Ben Shepherd]

LOTS of dryfire practice.
Trigger control is your biggest issue with short barrels.

 

[Sunray]

Change the grips. For most people the stock grips are too small. Put a set of Pachmayr's on it. Then load some .357 brass to .38 Special velocities. If the trigger hasn't been done, do it.

 

[bountyhunter]

Pachmahr decelerator grips work wonders for reducing the recoil shock. I have them on all my magnums.

 

[Moonclips]

I'm thinking of getting a J-frame. And I'd like to put wooden grips on it because they don't snag in clothing as compared to the rubber grips. Does anyone have any experience with the Ahrends finger-grooved combat grips?

 

[RON in PA]

What loads are you using? Are you trying full power loads? Maybe they are past your recoil tolerance. Have you tried reduced loads like the Remington Golden Sabre? I only use .38 special +Ps. Also I've found that as I get older my tolerance for recoil has deminished.

Also, what model J frame are you using? An Airlite recoils much more than a steel frame 640.

 

[Jim March]

I realize in hindsight I wasn't clear enough with my last post in this thread.

Basically, there are three new 38+P loads that have got our attention as potential breakthroughs in 38+P performance. These are:

The Speer 135 Gold Dot - seems to be a JHP designed for snubbies and proper expansion at around 825fps or above. And they seem to launch out of snubbies at around 875ish. Main feature: a *huge* hollowpoint cavity. Test data from Speer looks great, and they're known for honesty in such matters, so some of us are buying and loading these even without additional independent data. Also: Speer claims to have made it compatible with super-light Scandium/aluminum/titanium guns by eliminating "bullet yanking" under recoil. This may prove to be a big selling point for those people into 12.5oz and below guns.

Cor-Bon's 100grain Pow'R'Ball. While a bit light, the PRB is a "clogproof hollowpoint" and if it's going fast enough, might work well despite being a featherweight. Independent test data eagerly awaited.

Bufallo Bore's bat-outta-hell 158grain "old school" LSWC-HP reputed to pull 1,000fps from a 2" barrel yet not exceed 38+P pressures. If they accomplish this neat trick, they'll have well over 330ft/lbs energy on tap, making this the "nitro-injected blown 427 Chevy" of the snubby 38 world. Won't ship until a few months more. We don't NEED test data on this, so long as it goes as fast as they say it will. We know how the same basic load performs at these speeds when you shoot the Remmie/Winchester variants from a 6" tube. This will get to the same place in a 2" . The 135 Gold Dot will probably end up being a bit "fatter" in the expansion department when everything goes right, but this bad boy will *penetrate* like nothing this side of a 357 hunting load.

Which load will prove to be "the snubbie king"? Damned if I know. The BB158 is bordering on low-end 357 horsepower levels; should still recoil a bit less than real 357s of course and make a nice choice for steel J-frames. Might "yank" in the superlight guns though, those might be best with the 135GD. And while I consider the PRB100 the "tail-end-charlie" of these three, test data could prove me wrong.

 

[dogngun]

I have a Smith Model 19 in 2 1/2". It's the smallest .357 I've ever been able to shoot with some accuracy. I prefer a .38 +p for a J frame, and that in a steel frame. I have little use for alloy or lighter guns - I know some love them, I can't shoot them accurately.

To re-state, a J frame requires trigger control, dry firing, practice, practice, practice - re-learn the fundamentals.

Learning to shoot it well will make you a better shot with everything else.

Mark

 

[Plinkerton]

You could try the old blind load and spin the cylinder trick to see if you are moving.

Would you care to elaborate on this? I would imagine I may need some help when I get my 686.

Also, when you say dryfire practice, do you look down your sights and dry fire the gun, and see how much it moves, and where you move, and just practice holding it very still while you are shooting DA?

Thanks

 

[Ben Shepherd]

Plinkerton: You load 1 or 2 chambers(not next to each other) . Then you spin the cylinder quickly and swing it back in. Better option is to have someone do it for you so you can't cheat. This way you don't know which trigger pull is going to go BOOM instead of click. A flinch will show up real quick.

Note: Do not Slam the cylinder home while it's spinning!!! Very bad on the gun. Anyone EVER does that to one of mine, it would be the LAST time they ever shot one of mine. And they would get a quick course on respecting others firearms as well.

Just spin it enough you have no idea which chambers are loaded and shut it normally.

When practicing dryfire you can balance a coin across the front sight. If it falls off, you're flinching, practice some more.

Edited for fingers faster than brain issues.

 

[Plinkerton]

Thanks Ben. THat's what I thought it was. I'll have to try that, it seems like that could be a bit unnerving.

Don't flip the cylinder back in? But it looks so cool in the movies!

 

[Alan Fud]

RON, I can fire 125grn Gold Dot (583 fp @ 1450fps) out of my 4" S&W 686+ without too much difficulty but when I try the same load out of my 2" Ruger SP101 (not really a J-frame but close) or my S&W640, I find it to be a handful and difficult to shoot accurately. As a result, I have those guns loaded with .38 +p's.

Jim, thanks for the insight about the new loads. The one from Speer looks interesting.

 

[bountyhunter]

Would you care to elaborate on this? I would imagine I may need some help when I get my 686.

The "blind load spin trick" goes like this: swing the cylinder out and pick up two or three rounds. Eyes closed, put one in and spin. Put another one in and spin, Put in another and spin. Close the cylinder and raise the gun on target, then open your eyes. You should have the rounds loaded in randome order so you don't know when the gun will fire. watch for the flinch and ask the guy in the next lane to kick you each time your flinch (optional).

Also, when you say dryfire practice, do you look down your sights and dry fire the gun, and see how much it moves, and where you move, and just practice holding it very still while you are shooting DA?

Just aim the EMPTY gun at a target spot on the wall and practice pulling the trigger and see if the gun moves. It should stay very still. That helps burn in muscle memory of holding the gun still through the trigger pull.

 

[MrMurphy]

I've been shooting .357s as long as I've been shooting pistols (a decade plus), a Ruger Security Six was my first pistol.


.357s in a J-frame are going to be hell, regardless of your technique. I simply don't shoot .357s in a J frame, period. A .38 +P is going to have more than enough power at the distance a J is used, and is controllable and accurate.

K's and L's I can handle DA with .357s all day. But in a J-frame, it's never going to be fun.