To Dillon or not to Dillon

[TackticalZacktical]

Get the 750 with a case feeder. You'll be MUCH happier.

Also, there's NO reason to deprime off the press. Tumble the brass, lube it, dump it in the collator and load it.

You're not going to be able to tell the difference at the firing line. I've never cleaned a primer pocket on a pistol cartridge. Unless you're needed to get that last X ring shot to get your Distinguished Pistol badge it's not worth it. In fact, the three DP shooters I know don't even clean primer pockets.

https://www.dillonprecision.com/xl-750-reloader-package-9mm_8_134_26660.html

Start there, or get the mount and roller handle from Inline Fab. I much prefer the Ergo handles from Inline. But that package has everything but the tumbler. You'll also need a RCBS Lock-Out Die.

I've got a pair of 650 presses on the bench. One for 45 ACP and the other for 9mm. Really it's large and small primer

Since you plan on casting and coating your own bullets you should be able to pay for that 750 setup inside a year. You should be able to save $0.20 per round at current prices. That's only ~7500 rounds to pay for that setup.

Thank you for that. Are there any issues I might run into when tumbling with primers still in? What is an effective drying process? The last batch I tumbled I spread out in my black truck bed in the Arkansas summer sun for a day to dry out. Would that be sufficient to dry out primers?

 

[Texas10mm]

Thank you for that. Are there any issues I might run into when tumbling with primers still in? What is an effective drying process? The last batch I tumbled I spread out in my black truck bed in the Arkansas summer sun for a day to dry out. Would that be sufficient to dry out primers?

Don't wet tumble. Just use corn cob and some 50/50 Nu Finish/mineral spirts.

 

[labnoti]

I use a Lee Auto Breech Lock Pro. I started with a goal of about 12,000 rounds per year and when I was still mostly ignorant as a first-time progressive buyer, I could not justify the expense of going Dillon for that volume. A couple years now and my volume has actually turned out to be lower than I expected. I have plenty of components on-hand, but I'm not shooting as much as I thought I would. I think it's more like 8000 rounds per year.

Now that I have a lot of experience with the Lee ABLP, I would absolutely not buy a Dillon 550. It's not that its a bad press, but it just isn't enough of an upgrade over my ABLP that I would care to switch. Even if I was starting again, I would sooner buy another ABLP than a 550. The 550 is a little better, but not enough better. The 750, on the other hand, is clearly a winner. If I had more volume to justify it, I would certainly go that way, or even more likely with a 1050.

So that's my conclusion: go big, or go Lee.

 

[TackticalZacktical]

I'm an odd duck, so my advice may be off from others that may or may not load like you would.

Personally, I like the 550 I bought in Jan of 2019. I do run the occasional large lot, "set and forget" 9mm lots...but by large I'm mostly taking 500 at a time, tops. For that, the 550 is fine by me. I more so use the Dillon as a hybrid loader, often doing some more like single stage loading on it. I run a lot of 38 special and 44 magnum, so I'll do stage work on the 550 where I may not make fully loaded cases by resizing/de-priming and priming them...then store them for small batch loading later. For 44 I'll use all kinds of different projectiles and powder charges so a Dillion powder dropper isn't really needed as I'm changing it up all the time. I also do not use Dillion seating and crimp dies for 44 as I'm constantly switching projectiles. I also load match 223 on a single stage press, no problem there.

I'll say this, it's my opinion that Dillon presses are designed to be "set and forget". Their dies (many of which I own) are superb once you have them set up but fine adjustments on them is a massive pain, they're clearly designed to be set up once, then ran like that. If you're going to switch back and forth between different projectiles/loads/powders...I wouldn't suggest Dillon dies. If you're going to set up the machine to run one type of load, with the same powder, same charge, and same projectile over and over again...Dillon has that down to a science.

That's going to be my breaking point that will drive me to a 750, when I'm ready to load mass lots of one kind, I'll get a 750. Until then, as much as I swap things back/forth, my 550 is perfectly fine for me.

Excellent advice. 9mm and .223 are the only calibers I plan to reload anytime in the future, so I don’t see the tedious adjustments being an issue. Another thing to consider. Thanks

 

[TackticalZacktical]

I've been a 550 owner nearly 30 years. Were I starting over, I would go with the 750 for the extra station. If your volume justifies it a case feeder, it can be added later. I can't add a fifth station to my 550 ever.
If you are half as happy with Dillon as I have been, you will be very happy.

Happy happy happy. Just also broke broke broke haha

 

[kmw1954]

To me the question seems to come down to three points; Budget, Volume, Work Load.

The OP already knows he wants a Dillon, Would like a 750 but really at this time can afford a 550 so there lies the budget dilemma. I suggested a two step approach by buying the 750 and adding the case feeder at a later time when Finances allow.

Now both of those presses will handle the other two issues of Volume and Work Load but at what trade off? Does he want to load 500 to 1k every week to keep up with competition demands or would it be better to load up 5k once a month. The Volume and Work Load aspect. None of us can answer those questions for the OP only he can.

 

[TackticalZacktical]

I use a Lee Auto Breech Lock Pro. I started with a goal of about 12,000 rounds per year and when I was still mostly ignorant as a first-time progressive buyer, I could not justify the expense of going Dillon for that volume. A couple years now and my volume has actually turned out to be lower than I expected. I have plenty of components on-hand, but I'm not shooting as much as I thought I would. I think it's more like 8000 rounds per year.

Now that I have a lot of experience with the Lee ABLP, I would absolutely not buy a Dillon 550. It's not that its a bad press, but it just isn't enough of an upgrade over my ABLP that I would care to switch. Even if I was starting again, I would sooner buy another ABLP than a 550. The 550 is a little better, but not enough better. The 750, on the other hand, is clearly a winner. If I had more volume to justify it, I would certainly go that way, or even more likely with a 1050.

So that's my conclusion: go big, or go Lee.

Unless my trigger finger falls off, I should be able to justify the volume. Certainly so over a few years. Thank you for your advice and unique perspective.

 

[TackticalZacktical]

To me the question seems to come down to three points; Budget, Volume, Work Load.

The OP already knows he wants a Dillon, Would like a 750 but really at this time can afford a 550 so there lies the budget dilemma. I suggested a two step approach by buying the 750 and adding the case feeder at a later time when Finances allow.

Now both of those presses will handle the other two issues of Volume and Work Load but at what trade off? Does he want to load 500 to 1k every week to keep up with competition demands or would it be better to load up 5k once a month. The Volume and Work Load aspect. None of us can answer those questions for the OP only he can.

I think you hit the nail on the head. This thread has been immensely helpful in helping me decide what I need. Thank you

 

[TackticalZacktical]

If you take off 2 bolts on the side and remove the camming shaft (takes 3 seconds) you can stop it from auto indexing.

For loading pistol, I would 100% go with the 750 and a casefeeder, unless you truly just like doing lots of manual things. Can't knock that if you like it, but I like loading 9mm on a 750 with a casefeeder and bulletfeeder, absolutely hated loading 9mm on a single stage.

What bullet feeder do you use?

 

[packetloss]

What bullet feeder do you use?

I 3d printed the AmmoMike bullet feeder and I'm using the $12 DAA large extension spring and the $49 DAA bullet feeder die. Works really well. Buying the 3d printer, filament and misc. parts the cost was about $300. Significantly cheaper than the full DAA kit which runs about $500 and I've used the 3d printer for a whole bunch of other things.

 

[nofendertom]

I would suggest not getting the RCBS primer flip tray---get the Dillon metal primer flip tray. More money but worth it in my opinion.

 

[packetloss]

Thank you for that. Are there any issues I might run into when tumbling with primers still in? What is an effective drying process? The last batch I tumbled I spread out in my black truck bed in the Arkansas summer sun for a day to dry out. Would that be sufficient to dry out primers?

Don't wet tumble. Just use corn cob and some 50/50 Nu Finish/mineral spirts.

I have been wet tumbling and like it a lot better than dry tumbling. It's much quicker, and the cases come out looking better than new. Even some nasty 357 sig cases I got that look to have been sitting outside at an outdoor range for many years. I found the best way to dry them is if you have a convection oven that goes below 200. Mine goes as low as 170. I pop them in there for about 30 minutes to an hour and they are dry. Just don't go over 200 or they will tarnish. I have not had any issues tumbling with primers still in. If I do find some CBC or military brass I will size/deprime and then ream the primer pocket. I find CBC primer pockets to be tighter than crimped military brass. Otherwise I find them to be good cases, though some folks have had issues with 147 grain 9mm bullets and getting those cases to gauge properly.

You can definitely let the brass sit outside in the sun to dry as long as it's not too humid. The humidity will cause them to tarnish.

 

[labnoti]

I will also add that I use a case feeder with my Lee ABLP, and it is a huge improvement over feeding cases by hand. Even though the Lee case feeder is nowhere near as fancy as the Dillon, and nowhere near as costly, it just makes a tremendous difference in the workflow. I have a bullet feeder too, but don't use it. It became more work than it was saving. I suppose the big advantage of Dillon is their features actually work without a lot of fussing -- at least that's what I'd hope to get for all the extra cost. Lee's case feeder is a little fiddly. It holds 60 .357 cases that I fill with the funnel-style hopper (which works remarkably well). Out of 60 cases, I'm fiddling with four or five. Owners of Dillon feeders would probably balk at that, but compared to feeding each case by hand, I wouldn't be without it.

 

[Thomas Mayberry]

I've loaded on a bonanza single stage for right at 40 years. I shoot about 600-800 rounds a month. I got a 550C about three months ago. OMG I wish I had bought it thirty years ago.

 

[rbernie]

9mm and .223 are the only calibers I plan to reload anytime in the future

Loading rifle chamberings are the specific reason that I went 550; it seemed easier to separate the 'sizing and decapping' step from the rest of the cycle (since ya gotta do a bunch of off-press steps, like tumble and trim the bottleneck brass after sizing, before you can complete the rest of the loading steps). I think that having 650 / 750 folk explain how they accomplish that would be very helpful here.

 

[Texas10mm]

Loading rifle chamberings are the specific reason that I went 550; it seemed easier to separate the 'sizing and decapping' step from the rest of the cycle (since ya gotta do a bunch of off-press steps, like tumble and trim the bottleneck brass after sizing, before you can complete the rest of the loading steps). I think that having 650 / 750 folk explain how they accomplish that would be very helpful here.

Separate tool heads. Put a RT-1500 on one of them and the trimming step is taken care of. Use RCBS X dies and it's gone too.

 

[Nature Boy]

Rifle brass prep is one of the big advantages I find with the 650 (now 750).

Put a sizing/decapping die in station #1, load the case feeder with lubed cases and pull the handle until you’re done.

Couldn’t be any easier than that.

Edit: add the RT-1500 and take care of trimming on the fly would be even easier, as @Texas10mm mentions above. If I was loading a lot of one caliber I’d have one of those too

 

[Nature Boy]

I realize that a lot of suggestions mean spending more money so I apologize for adding another.

Dedicated tool heads.

I have one for each cartridge I load for. Makes change-overs so much easier

 

[packetloss]

Loading rifle chamberings are the specific reason that I went 550; it seemed easier to separate the 'sizing and decapping' step from the rest of the cycle (since ya gotta do a bunch of off-press steps, like tumble and trim the bottleneck brass after sizing, before you can complete the rest of the loading steps). I think that having 650 / 750 folk explain how they accomplish that would be very helpful here.

I wouldn't let that be a reason to deter you. If I get range pickup brass of unknown quality (9mm, 40, .223, etc) I will first tumble it without pins, dry it, Lube them up (had issues with some unknown age brass leaving shavings on my carbide dies) and then resize and de-prime on my 750. I just use a separate toolhead with just the sizing/depriming die. I can crank through about 2000 cases like that in about a half hour. It's well worth it to not end up having to clean brass off my die or ending up with some brass where the primer didn't de-prime (When just sizing/depriming I can watch to make sure a primer gets popped off and hit it 2 or 3 times till I see one).

I haven't had that issue with my own shot brass or if I scoop up some brass from someone shooting new factory loads, so in those instances I don't size/deprime first, but the process works well if you are doing .223 or any rifle brass that needs to be trimmed.

 

[luzyfuerza]

OP, I've used a 650XL and a 1050 to reload 100s of thousands of 9mm and .223 cases (among many others) over 35 years. Trust me when I say that I would never load a cartridge on any press, including progressives, without having a station for a mechanical low/high powder check of every single round made. This one fact rules out the 550C in my book.

The other production-rate-related differences between a 550 and a 750 (case feeder, auto-indexing, etc.) are largely irrelevant compared to that one little station.

The 550C is a fine machine, and makes great ammo. And my 650/1050s don't screw up. But I want to know that the powder level of every single round I load has been checked mechanically before I shoot it.

Some say that looking at the powder level in every case on something like a 550 (using good lighting and mirrors, etc.) is the same as a mechanical check. Not really. A visual check gets the reloader within maybe +/- 20% of the desired powder charge, but the powder check dies on my Dillons checks powder levels to within 5% of desired levels. With every round, I don't just listen for the tell-tale beep, I watch the plunger rise up to just the right height on every case. I KNOW that those rounds have the right powder charge.

Over those 100s of thousands of rounds, I've had ONE squib (when I was brand new to reloading), and zero overcharges.

Beg/borrow/wait for Christmas/wait for sales/cheap out on other stuff on EBAY at first and upgrade later, but don't scrimp on making sure that the press you make that first big investment in has that critical fifth station.

 

[luzyfuerza]

35.49 Frankford Arsenal Hand Deprimer

You don't need this. That puts you $35.49 closer to a 750.

Jump on this if you can:

https://www.ebay.com/itm/Used-Dillo...358?_trksid=p2349526.m4383.l4275.c10#viTabs_0

 

[Bosn Ski]

That is absolutely brilliant! Huge costs savings too without sacrificing time and effort. Thank you for that!
Have you since found anywhere that sells a collator online?

I emailed DAA about a collator, Saul replied:

We have kicked around this idea but frankly not worked on it yet.

The LEE solution looks cool in video, but feedback I have from users is that you need to accept quite a few upside down cases… which I don’t like.

Albeit it is a very cheap solution, which it would need to be. it is difficult to collate cases the right way up without a system that would cost like a case feeder, in which case, you would use a case feeder, not a mini tube system…
We will give it some thought…
————
I’m willing to accept a few upside down cases.

As of today I think the 3D printed option is the only reasonable option for the mini case feeder.

 

[MikeInOr]

I had my Dillon 650 for 2 years without a case feeder and I never missed the case feeder for a second! Of course now that I have a case feeder I couldn't imagine not having one. My point, consider a 750 without a case feeder and then add a case feeder when the funds permit. To me this would seem to make more sense in the long run. OR maybe you can find some fool selling his 650 at a decent price to upgrade to a 750???

I have had my 650 for about 30 years now. I have never been tempted for more than a second to get something else. A 1050 would be cool... uh, cost of heads and time to change them... nope, a 650 is perfect for me! I have had a couple friends that were happy with their 550's until they tried my 650 then ended up selling their 550's to upgrade to a 650. Buy once, cry once.

 

[TTv2]

If you're going to be shooting 500 rds a week, skip the Harbor Freight tumbler and go straight to the big Frankford. The HF is not a bad tumbler, but it's limited and the dual drum suffers the most because it's using the same motor as the single drum, so it lacks the power when you fill both drums up with brass and pins.

If you really are going to decap before tumbling (I do, so I don't blame you) I would skip the hand deprimers and get the Lee APP press. It will be so much faster, like the Concorde vs a snail faster.

I would also skip the digital scale and get a beam scale and preferably one that is older as newer scales just aren't the same quality. If you can't find an older scale, get the $30 Lee beam scale because at that price it's actually worth it, unlike the $80+ beam scales.

I wouldn't not rule out considering the Lee Auto Breech Lock Pro. Given it's under $200 for the press, dies, die bushings, and case feeder setup, it's such a huge gap in price to overlook.

 

[jmorris]

I never used my 550 to load my UDPSA or IDPA ammunition as I preferred the speed of my 650’s and 1050’s but one would certainly do the job. On my 550 a hundred rounds takes me a bit more than 10 minutes, while I can load 100 on a case and bullet fed 650 or 1050 in 4 minutes and it’s a lot less work.

Most of my brass is tumbled dry in corncob and polish but I have wet tumbled too. The tumbler I built allows for thousands per batch and I don’t waste the time to run them all through a press to deprime them. This time of year, in Texas, in 2.5 beers they are not only dry but too hot to hold in a bare hand.



They look pretty but they don’t shoot any better.

The only pistol ammo I deprime first is if it’s done with one of my automated presses. On a manual press, that would just make it take twice as long and double the work. On an automated press however, it’s not really much extra work, just keep the collator full and ensures every case will make it through the load pass.



Or if it’s been sorted by primer pocket size.


That said, they are all tumbled first, I don’t run dirty brass in my machines.