To or not to convert a 3 screw Super Blackhawk

[Billy Jack]

Last year I bought a really nice 1972 Super Blackhawk that has not had the transfer bar conversion. I love the "feel" of the action and all the classic characteristics of the old single action revolver.

I consider myself a safe gun handler with many years of experience. However, XhXt happens and I have had two accidental discharges. One was last year when the hammer caught under the web of a glove after pulling the trigger. When I tried to free the hammer of course it went ahead and completed it's mission of firing.

Last night, in the dark, fiddling with a barrel mounted Kill Light for hog hunting, I was checking the cylinder for loaded rounds with the hammer at half cock. I must have pulled the hammer back far enough to release from the half cock position, but not far enough to engage the trigger sear. My thumb must have slipped off the hammer and as Murphy's law would dictate there was a round in the chamber and it did FIRE. My left index finger was under the gap between the cylinder and barrel and it took several stitches to sew it back up, that is.... the part that they didn't have to trim off due to excessive powder burns. (I SAY "I MUST HAVE" BECAUSE YOUR MEMORY OF EXACTLY WHAT HAS HAPPENED IS TOTALLY WIPED OUT BY THE BOOM-FLASH-OH HELL-OUCH PART)

SO I HAVE A DELIMMA: 1. Do I ignore the incidents and just vow to be more careful as I am the safety not the gun; 2. Do I send the revolver back to Ruger for the installation of the transfer bar that might have prevented my stupidity from becoming an accidental discharge; or 3. Do I sell the gun to someone whose IQ is higher than their age as mine is in doubt.

 

[243winxb]

Old model Ruger Super Blackhawk

Convert, you get the old parts & it makes for a safer firearm. I had the firing pin hit the edge of the primer, luck for me it didnt fire. Happens if out of index.

 

[CraigC]

If the trigger was in the rearward position either time, a transfer bar wouldn't have prevented your ND's. If it was not, you have two options. Either have it converted or spend enough time with a traditional single action that this does not happen again. I vote for the latter.

For me, absolutely not and without question. The original lockwork works better, is smoother, has a better trigger letoff and safety is between the ears.

 

[Hootus]

That revolver is a classic that I would love to own in its original condition and I am certain I am not alone with that opinion.

How about option 3(a): sell it to someone who will pay top dollar for it and use the money to get a later model Super Blackhawk with the transfer bar safety. You get what you will feel comfortable with and another old model is saved in its original condition.

 

[243winxb]

From Ruger

http://www.ruger.com/pdf/safetyOfferAd.pdf

This mechanism can be factory-installed
without any further alteration. The frame
and other major parts will not be affected
by this Conversion. The value of the gun
will not be impaired, and we will return
your original parts for collector’s purposes.

 

[rcmodel]

I would not do it to a three-screw myself.

But you sir, sound like the perfect candidate for the safety conversion, and one who it was designed for.

Of course, that will not prevent ND's either, if the trigger is held back when you let the hammer slip out from under your thumb.

Sorry to be so blunt!
But that's the way I see it after 50 years of single-actions and never an ND with one..

rc

 

[rchery59]

That revolver is a classic that I would love to own in its original condition and I am certain I am not alone with that opinion.

How about option 3(a): sell it to someone who will pay top dollar for it and use the money to get a later model Super Blackhawk with the transfer bar safety. You get what you will feel comfortable with and another old model is saved in its original condition.

This +1

 

[LAGS]

Do Not convert it.
Learn to use it correctly, and RESPECT it if you are going to shoot it.
There is Nothing Wrong with the gun the way it is.
The gun did not Fail, it was operator error, so don't blame and ruin the gun.

I am sorry, but I just feel that everything is going to devices that let us be careless, Like Back Up cameras on cars, and automatic braking if you drive too close.
Lets all just step up and be responsable for our own actions.

 

[Slamfire]

I hope to find your account in the future and reference it as someone's experience with these older SA revolvers.


Hey, accidents happen and older mechanisms without hammer blocks or transfer bars have injured and killed people who would be OK if the mechanism had the later safety devices.


With the Ruger mechanism you have to keep your finger on the trigger for the transfer bar to remain in contact with the firing pin, so it is possible that one of your negligent discharges would not have happened. Would have scared you anyway to have the hammer fall on a loaded cylinder.


My transfer bar broke, after thousands of rounds and thousands of dry fire practice, and my SuperBlack hawk "failed" safe. That I think is the one disadvantage to a transfer bar mechanism, it won't fire after that part breaks. But it is still a safer system than the original Colt type mechanism with nothing to block the hammer.


I say, replace the parts. Before you send it in, I would keep the hammer (and trigger too?) as there is the chance they won't send them back and an original three screw is worth more with original parts. Expect to have to do a trigger job. I have a converted 3 screw, estate sale and no one knew where the factory parts were. The factory conversion has a mile of creep before the trigger breaks. I am not fooling with it for the time being.

 

[wproct]

You asked for opinions, so here goes. I would hate to see that nice old 3-screw revolver converted. If you don't feel comfortable with it, sell it to someone who will appreciate it in its original condition. Buy something else that you will feel comfortable with, and practice safe gun-handling with it.

 

[Billy Jack]

Well RC, you think you are blunt....you should have heard my wife.

I'm 68 and got my first single action, a Ruger Single Six, when I was about 16 so I also have been around them for a few years, but accidents do happen and when they do they can shake your confidence a bit.

I much prefer the older revolvers. When I bought this one it was sitting in the gun case next to a brand new one for less money. Picking them both up side by side there was no doubt which one I wanted to take home. Same reason all my Marlin lever guns are older JM stamped rather than the shiny new Remlins.

In a day or so when my heart rate gets back to normal I'll decide to keep it and just be as careful as possible.

Thanks for the honest comments.

 

[CraigC]

Hey, accidents happen and older mechanisms without hammer blocks or transfer bars have injured and killed people who would be OK if the mechanism had the later safety devices.

Education and safe handling practices are what saves lives, not doohickeys.

 

[Driftwood Johnson]

This mechanism can be factory-installed
without any further alteration. The frame
and other major parts will not be affected
by this Conversion. The value of the gun
will not be impaired, and we will return
your original parts for collector’s purposes

Howdy

The bit I highlighted red is a crock. Most of the time, when one of these that has been altered goes on sale it does not come with the original parts, only the conversion parts. A converted Three Screw just does not command the same value as one that has not been converted. I have five unaltered Three Screws, I will pass every time on one that has been converted.

With all due respect, you need a bit more practice handling a traditional single action. Both of the incidents you mention show a lack of good gun handling. Getting a glove caught under the hammer you should automatically have stopped and made sure the gun was safe. I NEVER fire revolvers with a glove on my hand. NEVER! For just the type of reason that you mentioned. And why in the world were you fiddling with a loaded gun in the dark? If its loaded, don't mess with it. If you need to mess with it, unload it first.

If you don't know if there is a round under the hammer, learn this sequence: Set it on half cock. Open the loading gate. Load one round. Then skip one chamber. Then load four more. Then bring the hammer all the way to full cock, then lower it. The hammer will be down on an empty chamber. Its easy with a Colt, you can see the rims and you can see there is no rim under the chamber. With a Ruger Three Screw, you can see the rims with some of them, with some you cannot. The one you have has counterbored chambers, so you cannot see the rims. So you have to be extra careful.


This Flat Top 44 Mag has counterbored chambers like yours, so the rims cannot be viewed.




These two 357s do not have counterbored chambers, the rims are visible behind the cylinder.





It's your gun, do what you feel most comfortable doing. Frankly, with all due respect, I think you need a bit more practice at safe gun handling. I would never convert one of my Three Screws, but I am used to handling Colts.

For what it's worth, in Cowboy Action Shooting, ALL revolvers, whether they have transfer bars or not are ALWAYS only loaded with 5 rounds with the hammer down on an empty chamber. It's not a safety thing with a modern Ruger, it'd so the transfer bar guns don't have an advantage over the non-transfer bars guns. The usual practice at the loading table is to load 5, using whatever method you prefer, make sure the hammer is down on an empty chamber, then let the loading table officer or the guy standing next to you double check it for you. Pointing the gun in a safe direction, the other guy can see if there is no rim under the hammer. If there is nobody to check, I check myself.

Then, the revolvers are holstered. They remain holstered, AND ARE NOT TOUCHED OR FIDDLED WITH until the shooter reaches the firing line. Once the course of fire has been completed. Then you go to the unloading table and empty the gun and show safe to somebody.

 

[steveno]

I heard a while back that now Ruger doesn't even return the old parts on converted 3 screw guns. how true that is I don't know for sure but Ruger has done crazy things. I know that if you were to send a 357 max Blackhawk back to the factory you won't get that gun back and they will offer you something else in return

 

[Peter M. Eick]

I would add as a collector, converted 3 screws are a pass for me. If it is not factory original, It is just a shooter.

I would not even think about converting it and no my 357 Maximum will never see Ruger's repair facility.

 

[CraigC]

It does affect value, especially if the original parts are not included and folks better plan on $150 to replace them. Ruger does not care about resale value or collectability. All they care about is their own liability. They usually return the parts but sometimes do not. If they deem them in unsafe condition, they will scrap them.

 

[MagnumDweeb]

I wouldn't convert it, not a classic like that. But with that said I'd keep it unloaded at all times I wasn't at the range with it and it would only be a range gun. That or I'd sell it. As I understand it Freedom Arms had to go into bankruptcy at one point because one of its customers didn't know the revolver had no transfer bar safety and went slogging around with it on his hip. Well he jumps down while on a trail and the gun discharges severing his femoral artery. The family sues Freedom Arms and the company takes a hit.

Sure the family got paid something (not much to get from Bankruptcy if you have a good bankruptcy attorney) but the guy was still dead. You're 68 not 98 and likely a good ten plus years of full mobility if you took care of yourself. Now is not the time to risk injury over sentiment. Either keep the gun purely as a range toy or sell it off and get something fun. I'd opt for a pure range gun but that's me at the young age of 29. If it isn't a modern gun (I mean uses modern designs, 1911's made today with Series 70 parts are not modern in my mind, granted I won't carry a 1911) I keep it only for its collector's value, resale value, or range fun, won't use it for hiking, fishing, or hunting, or self-defense (one of the writers for S.W.A.T. died after a Colt 1903 fell out of his waist ban and discharged when it hit the ground, and the round went right into his heart and a couple minutes later he was dead.)

 

[CraigC]

A traditional single action is not a dangerous object that can go off and kill somebody all by itself. They are not to be feared or treated like dynamite. The problem is not the guns, it's the people who don't know how to handle them. Get in the habit of keeping the hammer down on an empty chamber and they are no more or less safe than any other firearm. Those of us familiar with them do not treat them any differently, aside from that empty chamber. Some even carry them in the field and concealed!

 

[buck460XVR]

IMHO, I think it comes down to whether it is a collector or a shooter. If it's a shooter, than it also comes down to whether you want five rounds in the cylinder or six. You sound like you actually use the gun and in the process have already had two close calls. One of those cost you a trip to the hospital. The hospital trip already cost you the difference in collector value. If it was a safe queen, there would be no decision. As a tool that you use regularly, is the little difference in value worth the risk(to you, not someone else)? Do you have other family members that use the firearm or may use it regularly in the future? If so, you need to consider their safety also. It's easy to give advice when one is not responsible for the consequences. You are the one that is responsible for your safety and theirs, not other folks here.

 

[Jim Watson]

You have demonstrated that that gun is not safe in your hands. It doesn't matter what others say or do, you have not managed it properly.

I recommend trading it to a traditionalist and getting at least a New Model with transfer bar and preferably a double action that takes less fiddling around with to shoot.

I would make that traditionalist happy and not muck up the old gun with a crude conversion to the Iver Johnson System.

 

[CraigC]

If it's a shooter, than it also comes down to whether you want five rounds in the cylinder or six.

Let us not forget the gritty action and horrible trigger.

It's easy to give advice when one is not responsible for the consequences.

Yeah, how many traditional single actions in your stable? My advice is to fix the REAL problem through education, not put a gimmick bandaid fix on it in the form of a transfer bar conversion.


Lest we all forget that Colt, USFA, Uberti, Great Western, Pietta, Armi San Marco, etc. have all produced a huge number of traditional single action revolvers and continue to this day. Some folks act as if all that ended the day the Ruger New Model debuted. That people immediately stopped using those guns.

 

[Billy Jack]

This has certainly been a learning experience for me and now that this thread has grown I hope it can be a learning experience for others.

It also was a humbling confession of all my sins. Any one that knows me would think I was as careful with my gun handling as any one they know. I started handling guns at the age of six. I raised 3 sons and taught them all how to shoot and to safely handle firearms. I guided whitetail hunters for 10 years on a large ranch near San Angelo, TX and preached and practiced gun safety to my hunters. Just goes to show that no one is immune from human mistakes. That is why the rules we practice need to be so basic. Basic rule number one is "Make certain the firearm is unloaded before handling".

Driftwood Johnson made a great summary of single action procedures. I really appreciate his time and effort. I would however like to add that I did know all of the things he mentioned. I had even preached them to my friends. Just knowing them isn't enough....it is the practice he mentioned that actually matters.

Now that the shock of the event is over I have further analyzed the complete situation and found that the primary cause of my recent accident comes directly from failure to practice Rule #1 Always be sure the firearm is unloaded before handling. When I took the pistol out of its storage case to see how the kill light would fit the pistol, I failed to rotate the cylinder and check each chamber for a round. A minute later when I was outside I realized I had not checked it. At that time, in very low light, I attempted to check the cylinder and in doing so had the fiasco that resulted in the gun's firing. The insult to injury is the fact that there was a single round in the cylinder. This means that the last time I had handled the gun loaded I had failed to completely unload it. I can't explain how that happened......that is why we have Rule # 1

The glove incident is more complicated. I hunt at night in 20 degree weather and do wear gloves. Therefore when I practice I practice with a glove. When I cocked the hammer with my right thumb the hammer came way back low next to the frame as single actions do and when I then rotated my thumb back to complete my grip on the pistol, the web of the glove stuck out slightly over the hammer. I did not notice this as I was concentrating on the target. When the trigger was pulled the hammer moved slightly but was immediately stopped by the glove. My first thought was that there must have been a failure to fire. About the same time as I realized that the hammer was still back my hand moved slightly and the hammer was released and continued on to fire the pistol. This was almost like a hang fire...............click...pause...boom. This all happened in the blink of an eye.

After I realized that the glove could be a problem I changed the type of glove I wear. I also recognize that the glove incident could happen just as easily with a transfer bar action as on my Redhawk as one without, since in both cases the trigger is being held in the fire position. Again it was a handling error not a gun problem.
I accept that.

Fortunately from age six until this minute I have never failed to obey the command my father gave me when I first started shooting "Never point a firearm at anything you do not want to kill". As a result my 2 incidents in 62 years of shooting have only injured my finger and my pride!

As for the Classic Ruger 3 screw revolver, have no fear. I will not screw it up.

I will take this incident as a very serious learning event and continue to enjoy the Ruger for the purpose I purchased it. If at any time I feel that I can not properly handle the gun I will sell it and buy me a single shot, with cross bar/transfer bar/trigger/grip/tang/ side lever safeties requiring a 6 step process before firing. If I screw that up I will just sit back and start watching football on a big screen TV like most folks think a man my age should do!

This thread was designed to get me some strong criticism and chastising from my peers so that I would be a better firearms citizen in the future.
It worked....THANKS, JACK

 

[CraigC]

Just knowing them isn't enough....it is the practice he mentioned that actually matters.

That's the catch, you have to do it enough that it becomes second nature.

 

[788Ham]

Having read this whole thread, reading every response as to why, how this could have happened, 2 incidents would definitely have been enough for me! I don't want to read about how the 3rd incident happened. Something you're doing/not doing is the problem !

 

[Billy Jack]

Everything that everyone has contributed to this conversation has been worthwhile and greatly appreciated. However, what 29 year old MagnumDweeb wrote shows wisdom beyond his years.

I do own 2 Ruger 44 magnum revolvers, a double action Redhawk and the single action Blackhawk. Many hogs have already been killed with the Redhawk and many more can be killed. Although I love the feel of the Blackhawk, the Redhawk IMO has better sights for hunting, especially in low light with the addition of a fiber optic front sight.

I hunt much more than I shoot at a range (right at this moment in time Lubbock doesn't even have a public shooting range) so for hog hunting I'll just stick to my Redhawk, my Marlin 1894s 44, and my Marlin 1895g 45-70. I normally only hunt 2-3 nights in a row anyway so that gives me a different weapon to use each night for variety.

The Blackhawk can still be used and enjoyed for its feel, shootability, and nostalgia. As for hunting it shot the same 260 WFN bullet as the Redhawk so I don't think the hogs will ever be the wiser.