To progressive, or not to progressive

[tcoz]

I don't think there's a better press on the market for pistol and 5.56 than the Lee Classic Turret. You can use auto-indexing for pistol and quickly convert it to a single stage for 5.56. I added a Redding T-7 only when I started loading larger heavier .30-06 and 7.5x55.

 

[thomas15]

^^^Would you go so far as to say that the LCT is the absolute best press on the market for pistol and 5.56 or just the best?

Why do you suppose that there are so many progressive presses being sold and used? Is it because some handloaders actually prefer to use less than the best and pay considerably more money for the privilege?

 

[Toprudder]

Why do you suppose that there are so many progressive presses being sold and used? Is it because some handloaders actually prefer to use less than the best and pay considerably more money for the privilege?

I have a Dillon 550 on one end of my bench, and a Lee Classic Turret on the other end. I use the Dillon for all my semi-auto ammo, and the LCT for revolver and rifle ammo.

Between my wife and myself, we should a fair amount of 9mm and 45acp, throw in some 380 and 40 cal once in a while. I can get about 400-450 rounds/hr out of the Dillon, which is plenty for one range trip.

We shoot a lot less 357mag, as I only have the one revolver, and I am not doing any large volume plinking to speak of with my rifles, either. I can do about 150-200 rounds/hr with the LCT for 357mag (with the auto-index) or about 50/hr for rifle (single-stage, batch mode) both of which are good for one trip to the range. I like paying a little more attention to detail when doing rifle rounds anyway, and it is easier to do that with the LCT, IMHO. I load .223, 7.62x39, and 30-30.

I would not want to give up either press, but if I had to keep just one, I would hang on to the LCT.

 

[thomas15]

^^^Sell your bed, buy a Lee LCT.
I just don't understand why you would spend $500.00+ for a Dillon 550 when you could own 5 LCTs for the same amount of money.

 

[Toprudder]

^^^Sell your bed, buy a Lee LCT.
I just don't understand why you would spend $500.00+ for a Dillon 550 when you could own 5 LCTs for the same amount of money.

I don't understand your logic. Buy 5 LCTs? When the only thing you need to change out is the turret and shellholder?

The LCT serves a purpose for me, as well as the Dillon.

 

[LiveLife]

We should keep in mind that OP is loading many calibers and caliber conversions for Dillon will exceed the cost of presses.

32short, long, auto, mag
380
9mm
38spl, 357 mag
38sw

And rifle
223/556
308
270 win
30-30
7-30 waters
256 winmag

If it was me, I would consider the following:

Option #1: LoadMaster/Dillon 550/LNL AP and SS for load development for more "reasonable" cost outlay with highest caliber conversion cost for Dillon 550 and lowest caliber conversion cost for LoadMaster. - around $700 for LM to $1000+ for 550


If I wanted the cheapest progressive option:

Option #2: Pro 1000 to do pistol loads (with lowest caliber conversion cost) and SS for rifle loads (You can easily convert the Pro 1000 to single stage/turret press for pistol/.223/7.62x39 load development) - under $500


If money was not much of an issue:

Option #3: Dillon 650 with case feeders and SS for load development - Around $2000

 

[MikeInOr]

+1 - another 650 fan boy here! I love mine!

Put on a bullet, pull the handle, out pops a round. Repeat.

The Forster co-ax press has that cool shell holder that grabs and centers the shell case at the beginning of the stroke then releases it at the end of the stroke. I wonder if that makes a considerable difference in speed? The co-ax also has it's own version of quick change dies. I have never used a co-ax or a turret but I would not think there would be much of a speed difference between the two?

It seems like I saw someone had setup their turret press to automatically eject the shell as the end of the stroke? This seems like it would allow you to keep one hand on the lever and use the other for putting the cases on the press... possibly speeding things up?

 

[thomas15]

I don't understand your logic. Buy 5 LCTs? When the only thing you need to change out is the turret and shellholder?

The LCT serves a purpose for me, as well as the Dillon

Post #26 above states "I don't think there's a better press on the market for pistol and 5.56 than the Lee Classic Turret."

The Lee turret press costs $115.00 and a Dillon RL550 about 5 times that amount. So I would like to know why anyone would spend 5 times the cost of the LCT to buy a Dillon progressive or any other progressive for that matter.

This is not my logic I'm just asking.

 

[styles]

I think the Dillon wins that analysis, but I will say that if you load pre-primed brass with a Lee Auto Drum, the case feeder, and the rcbs bullet feeder for pistol the LM will do nicely for much cheaper.

 

[ATLDave]

I'm a LCT fan. That's what I use. They're great bang for the buck, and very versatile.

But you have to pull the lever four times to get one round of ammo. With a Dillon 650, every pull gets you a round. If you need to make a lot of ammo quickly, or a WHOLE LOT of ammo on a regular basis, having a true progressive is pretty cool.

However, with auto-indexing, the LCT is not just a SS press that holds a bunch of dies as another poster claimed. You can crank merilly along pretty fast once you get the hang of it if you've got the ability to do one thing (grab brass, primer, bullet, finished round) with one hand while you run the lever with the other. If you're not capable of doing two different things with your hands at once, then the LCT won't be very fast. If you can, you can move through a decent amount.

 

[maxxhavoc]

I have issues with repetitive strain injuries, so pulling the handle once is much more desirable than pulling it 4 times, especially since the end result is the same.

The LCT costs about the same as the Pro 1000 progressive, once you factor in primer feed/powder handling that is included with the 1000.

 

[orionengnr]

I haven't made it up to a 650 yet, and not sure I will.
I've had two 450s and two 550s. Currently just the one 550.

To me, the 550 checks all the boxes. I started out loading .45 acp, and stuck to that for a good while. Eventually added .45LC...then maybe .41 Mag. And from there on it went downhill fast. I think I'm set up for 12-14 cartridges now, both pistol and rifle. I can swap from one to another, including swapping primer size, changing powder bar, changing tool heads, changing to a different powder and being ready to load all within 10-15 minutes.

I agree that the toolheads and shell plates and powder funnels add up quickly...but so do dies and components. On the other side of the ledger, you save a bunch on any round you get set up to load. And none of that hardware loses much value. If/when you get out of a cartridge or decide to liquidate, Dillon parts and accessories will garner some good money. So it's not like it's money thrown out the window.

Figure out which cartridges you shoot the most of, and start there. Then figure out how much you can afford to save.

 

[cfullgraf]

The Lee turret press costs $115.00 and a Dillon RL550 about 5 times that amount. So I would like to know why anyone would spend 5 times the cost of the LCT to buy a Dillon progressive or any other progressive for that matter.

Actually, the RL550 costs $439, less than 4 times the Lee at $115.

I pay the extra over the Lee turret press to get one round per pull of the handle.

If I am going to do three or four pulls to get a finished round, I'd rather use a single stage and do batch processing. I know, my single stage rate is less than what folks claim they get with the Lee turret, but I like to get extra time to fondle my cases looking for problems before actually stuffing the bullet in.

The Lee turret is a good press but it is not in the same operating class as a progressive. The low cost and the auto-indexing has some advantages but it does have it's limitations when compared to a true progressive. All have to be figured into the purchase decision.

As I usually say, pick the press whose color best matches the decor in your reloading room. It will serve you well.

 

[WestKentucky]

I will never have a bench without a SS, and I actually recently upgraded my SS to a classic cast so that it can handle ANY round I could conceivably ever try to load, including the big 50. I am not dead set on running EVERY caliber in progressive, mainly the 32s, 380, 9mm, 38/357, 223 and probably 308. I know long action rifle rounds on a cheap progressive gets hairy quick, even short action rifle rounds do.

I'm looking very seriously now at getting 2 new presses this year...LCT for rifle and pro1000 for little stuff. Maybe 1 soon, 1 for christmas.

 

[thomas15]

cfullgraft wrote: The Lee turret is a good press but it is not in the same operating class as a progressive. The low cost and the auto-indexing has some advantages but it does have it's limitations when compared to a true progressive. All have to be figured into the purchase decision.

You are of course correct I was simply reacting to the exaggerated claims some make about the Lee turret press. You know, I have loaded some very good 9mm on a $29.00 C press. So I know that ammo can function well when on a budget but money does buy speed, comfort and to an extent, enjoyment.

I ran a lot of 6000 rounds of 9mm on a turret press and it all works very well but the truth of the matter is I would never want to do that again without a progressive press. When my two kids were young Mrs Thomas15 and I lived on only my paycheck for 10 years. During that period of time I remember buying a Lee shotshell loader for about $40.00 and really digging deep for the additional $10.00 to get the optional primer feeder. I purchased primers 100 primers at a time and shot 25 pounds at a time. We had for that 10 years no money period.

But the kids grew up and Mrs Thomas15 started to bring home a paycheck and I myself have had several promotions so these days I can better afford to purchase hobby stuff. Still when I started really considering a progressive the thought of spending all that money kind of gave me pause. But now that I have it I really appreciate what it can do. In truth the actual press is in some respects the least expensive part when all things are considered. I have more money in ultramounts, LED lights, Bin brackets and ergo levers than what my first press cost.

 

[evtSmtx]

I have a lee classic turrent and a dillon 650 - love em both.
Lee is used for rifle, all my .44 magnum and small test batches of pistol.
Dillon use for cranking lots of 9mm & .45 acp but I may add .223 to it

 

[jmorris]

The Lee turret press costs $115.00 and a Dillon RL550 about 5 times that amount. So I would like to know why anyone would spend 5 times the cost of the LCT to buy a Dillon progressive or any other progressive for that matter.

Speed and the amount of work one has to do. On a turret you pull the handle once to size/deprime, then seat a primer on or off the press, a second pull will bell the case mouth and charge the case if you have a press mounted powder measure, your third pull of the handle will seat a bullet and the 4th stroke will crimp. So you have 4 strokes per completed round and if you charge and prime off the press had to remove and replace each case twice as well.

On a 550 and other progressive presses don't do them one at a time, rather all at once. Once the shell plate is full, an empty case is inserted and a loaded round falls out with eash stroke.

So 400 strokes per 100 rounds on a turret vs 103 strokes on a 550.

 

[thomas15]

So 400 strokes per 100 rounds on a turret vs 103 strokes on a 550.

I agree

There are 3600 seconds in an hour. To make 250 rounds per hour means that you have 14.4 seconds per round. If you have to pull the lever 4 times per round that means you have on average 3.6 seconds per pull. This includes placing the brass in the shell holder, installing a new primer, placing powder in the case, placing the bullet on the case mouth and removing the finished round from the shell holder.

There are some right here on this forum who repeat the words found in the sales literature that the Lee turret press can load 250+ rounds per hour. While it might be possible to make 10 rounds in 2.5 minutes I have a very difficult time believing that a person can keep this pace up for a whole hour. And even if they could they would still be making half the amount (per hour) of a progressive press working at a nice easy pace.

Someone had posted on a forum a video of a person that loaded about 4 or 5 rounds on a Lee turret press as proof that the 250 rounds per hour is possible. The set up used a counter clockwise indexing kit and finished round ejector from inline fabrications and a homemade bullet feeder. I don't know realistically how many bullets you could load in the turret and still have it self index but I'm sure it's less than 100 rounds. 50 rounds of 124g bullets would weigh about a pound. And you lose one of the 4 stations so you now have to seat and crimp in one operation.

So you would probably need 3 of the safety primer assemblies, 5 bullet tubes with 50 bullets in each tube and the above mentioned modifications and maybe you could make 250 rounds per hour. And it would probably cost about $350.00 for the press modifications. At this point you have spent as much as a real progressive costs and still have half the speed.

On a good day I can get 180 rounds per hour using my turret press and maybe a bullet producing honcho out there might get 200 rounds per hour but I question the 250 round figure.

But my big point here is this: if all you can afford are Lee tools then ok get that stuff. If you like your Lee tools that is great. Do Lee tools work? Yes they do. Are Lee tools budget priced? Yes they are. Can you make excellent ammo with Lee tools? Yes you can.

Can you make 250 rounds per hour on a Lee turret press? Probably not. Are Lee turret presses the finest press available today to load pistol and 5.56 ammo? What criteria is used to make this claim? How many handloaders are happy to trade their Dillon 550 or 650 or Hornady LnL for a Lee turret press and would consider it a serious upgrade? Maybe 1 in a 1000 because there is always one out there.

 

[evtSmtx]

My max rate on a lee turret is about 100-150 rounds per hour being careful. At the same level of care I can do 3-4x that speed on my dillon.

 

[Elkins45]

I loaded on a Pro1000 for years, but I finally broke down and bought a LnL AP when Midsouth had them on sale back in the fall.

Let me just say this: if you move to the northern KY area then shoot me an email or PM. I'll make you a super deal on a Pro1000 with a bunch of turrets and shellplates.

 

[jmorris]

Haven't played with a pro1000 yet but did load 100 rounds in under 4 min with a Loadmaster I tuned up, a few months ago.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=S9pjmuHAkBU

 

[styles]

The loadmaster is a much fairer comparison.

 

[BigBore45]

I would get a Lee classic turret press and a loadmaster. Those are the 2 I use the most. Rifle on the turret and pistol on the loadmaster.

I have a dillon 550B but I haven't had it on the bench since I got the loadmaster.

I have a o frame single stage Lee press that I size bullets with and other odd and end tasks. Could be done on the turret press though.

My dad has a Dillon 1050 and to be honest it is awesome to use but for the money and the hassle of changing calibers I will never own one.

A friend has an LNL that press I hate the most. It's more finicky than my loadmaster and the no die head setup is a joke. Way over priced.

 

[Wreck-n-Crew]

I will never have a bench without a SS, and I actually recently upgraded my SS to a classic cast so that it can handle ANY round I could conceivably ever try to load, including the big 50. I am not dead set on running EVERY caliber in progressive, mainly the 32s, 380, 9mm, 38/357, 223 and probably 308. I know long action rifle rounds on a cheap progressive gets hairy quick, even short action rifle rounds do.

I'm looking very seriously now at getting 2 new presses this year...LCT for rifle and pro1000 for little stuff. Maybe 1 soon, 1 for christmas.

I considered the LCT for loading rifle however i wont be loading many rounds and SS will do for rifle. I do have one SS for sizing bullets and just not up to par for rifle so its dedicated and fits the role well.

Think ill get a CC to fill the rifle role for now.


Sent from my LGLS991 using Tapatalk

 

[Nature Boy]

While it might be possible to make 10 rounds in 2.5 minutes I have a very difficult time believing that a person can keep this pace up for a whole hour.

That reminds me of the old joke. Cop pulls a guy over driving an old rusty beater for speeding.

Cop: I clocked you doing 70 miles per hour in a 45 mile an hour zone.

Driver: that's impossible officer! This car won't run for an hour.