To the Democrats Out There

[mountainclmbr]

I challenge gun-owning Democrats out there to explain how they vote for Democrats when the Democrat anti-gun agenda is so clear.

Don't come back with the old "Bush promised to sign AWB renewal" story. If he ACTUALLY signs it, then you can say that.

I am asking about how people who vote Democrat rationalize their vote against actual historical events, not speculation about events that probably will not happen.

I copied this from another site. This is the voting record for Senators to attach AWB renewal to bill 1805 whose purpose was to ban frivolous law suits against gun manufacturers and dealers. Notice the difference between the Republicans and the Donks. Republicans voting to sell us out are marked with "*", Democrats voting with us are marked with "#".

Akaka (D-HI), Yea
Alexander (R-TN), Nay
Allard (R-CO), Nay
Allen (R-VA), Nay
Baucus (D-MT), Nay #
Bayh (D-IN), Yea
Bennett (R-UT), Nay
Biden (D-DE), Yea
Bingaman (D-NM), Yea
Bond (R-MO), Nay
Boxer (D-CA), Yea
Breaux (D-LA), Yea
Brownback (R-KS), Nay
Bunning (R-KY), Nay
Burns (R-MT), Nay
Byrd (D-WV), Yea
Campbell (R-CO), Nay
Cantwell (D-WA), Yea
Carper (D-DE), Yea
Chafee (R-RI), Yea *
Chambliss (R-GA), Nay
Clinton (D-NY), Yea
Cochran (R-MS), Nay
Coleman (R-MN), Nay
Collins (R-ME), Yea *
Conrad (D-ND), Yea
Cornyn (R-TX), Nay
Corzine (D-NJ), Yea
Craig (R-ID), Nay
Crapo (R-ID), Nay
Daschle (D-SD), Yea
Dayton (D-MN), Yea
DeWine (R-OH), Yea *
Dodd (D-CT), Yea
Dole (R-NC), Nay
Domenici (R-NM), Nay
Dorgan (D-ND), Yea
Durbin (D-IL), Yea
Edwards (D-NC), Yea
Ensign (R-NV), Nay
Enzi (R-WY), Nay
Feingold (D-WI), Nay
Feinstein (D-CA), Yea
Fitzgerald (R-IL), Yea *
Frist (R-TN), Nay
Graham (D-FL), Yea
Graham (R-SC), Nay
Grassley (R-IA), Nay
Gregg (R-NH), Yea *
Hagel (R-NE), Nay
Harkin (D-IA), Yea
Hatch (R-UT), Nay
Hollings (D-SC), Yea
Hutchison (R-TX), Nay
Inhofe (R-OK), Nay
Inouye (D-HI), Yea
Jeffords (I-VT), Yea
Johnson (D-SD), Not Voting
Kennedy (D-MA), Yea
Kerry (D-MA), Yea
Kohl (D-WI), Yea
Kyl (R-AZ), Nay
Landrieu (D-LA), Nay #
Lautenberg (D-NJ), Yea
Leahy (D-VT), Yea
Levin (D-MI), Yea
Lieberman (D-CT), Yea
Lincoln (D-AR), Yea
Lott (R-MS), Nay
Lugar (R-IN), Yea *
McCain (R-AZ), Nay
McConnell (R-KY), Nay
Mikulski (D-MD), Yea
Miller (D-GA), Nay #
Murkowski (R-AK), Nay
Murray (D-WA), Yea
Nelson (D-FL), Yea
Nelson (D-NE), Nay #
Nickles (R-OK), Nay
Pryor (D-AR), Yea
Reed (D-RI), Yea
Reid (D-NV), Nay #
Roberts (R-KS), Nay
Rockefeller (D-WV), Yea
Santorum (R-PA), Nay
Sarbanes (D-MD), Yea
Schumer (D-NY), Yea
Sessions (R-AL), Nay
Shelby (R-AL), Nay
Smith (R-OR), Yea *
Snowe (R-ME), Yea *
Specter (R-PA), Nay
Stabenow (D-MI), Yea
Stevens (R-AK), Nay
Sununu (R-NH), Nay
Talent (R-MO), Nay
Thomas (R-WY), Nay
Voinovich (R-OH), Yea *
Warner (R-VA), Yea *
Wyden (D-OR), Yea

Only five Democrats were against renewing the assault weapons ban of 1994. The rest are the ones that want to control your life. As a free person I resent any person who wants to control MY life.

I was just wondering how gunowners that vote for Democrats rationalize their votes. I also want to know how gunowners living in a state with a "*" Republican Senator feel about the betrayal.

 

[Moparmike]

They will tell you that they believe that there are issues bigger than RKBA to them, and are not single-issue voters. They believe that a Dem. candidate is closer to their personal and political views than Bush is, and that is why they will vote for their candidate of choice.

 

[HBK]

Weird, though. Voting to give up your weapons and freedom...just strikes me as weird. I know some idiot liberal will probably throw the Patriot act up in my face, but it's not like voting for gun control.

 

[bountyhunter]

They will tell you that they believe that there are issues bigger than RKBA to them, and are not single-issue voters.

Amen. If an arrogant, trigger-happy leader takes the world into Armageddon, owning your AR-15 isn't going to matter much.

 

[grampster]

I could vote Democrat if it didn't mean pushing us further toward the United Socialist States of America and look forward to giving up our sovereignty to the United (thirdworld)Nations. The Repubs are also starting to worry me due to their desire to know everything about me for
their sheeple database. Big Brothers, both of em. The Repubs now want access to our medical records for any or no reason at all. Don't look to the SCoTUS, they sold us out on the 1A and probably soon the 2A as well as all the others they ignore in the quest for political correctness.

I actually am worried that America's day in the sun is coming to an end. The sad part it is because of inattention on the part of the sheeple. Bread and games. Maybe Kruschev was right. We are falling apart from the inside. While the pols rush around suckin up the money and power, we are being overunn by illegal immigrants who do not want to assimilate.

I feel a rant coming on.......I'll shut up! :banghead:

 

[mountainclmbr]

Yep. That bad old GWB. He deposed a soft cuddly Stalinist dictator who was a state sponsor of terrorism and hated the USA. A soft, kind, cuddly Stalinist who paid rewards to families of Palistinean suicide bombers and who had one of his embassy employees expelled from the Phillipines after being contacted by an Abu Sayef terrorist bomber that was trying to collect the reward money offered for killing US Citizens. Does it surprise me that many leftists liked Saddam more than GWB? Nope.

And that bad old Ollie North. He was interfering with the Soviet/Cuban plan to overthrow central american countries and install Communist governments. He did this after the Democrats in congress prevented Reagan from providing aid and training to the embattled government. Am I surprised that the Democrats favored the Soviets and Cubans over North and Reagan? Nope.

The Democrats seem to fawn over any Marxist or Stalinist dictator. I guess my question was a really stupid one. I know that many Democrats are only single issue voters when it comes to Communism. My question should have been "Why would any Democrats challenge total state control by owning a gun?"

 

[MicroBalrog]

I know some idiot liberal will probably throw the Patriot act up in my face, but it's not like voting for gun control.

I have an IQ of 135, and my SAT equivalent is 1400. What's yours? How many languages do you speak?

And yes, I believe the 4th amendment matters as much as the 2nd.

 

[J Jones]

I have an IQ of 135, and my SAT equivalent is 1400. What's yours? How many languages do you speak?

Tooting your horn is hardly a valid counter-argument.

 

[MicroBalrog]

JJ - It is, if the other person calls you an "idiot liberal"

Now, I think I have proven him wrong.

 

[Intune]

Press on: nothing in the world can take the place of perseverance. Talent will not; nothing is more common than unsuccessful men with talent. Genius will not; unrewarded genius is almost a proverb. Education will not; the world is full of educated derelicts. Persistence and determination alone are omnipotent.
Calvin Coolidge

Education is a method whereby one acquires a higher grade of prejudices.
- Dr. Laurence J. Peter

I have never been hurt by anything I didn't say.
Calvin Coolidge

 

[Boats]

Well I have an IQ of 180, aced my SAT at 1600 and can speak fluently in three languages and carry on conversationally in five more. I bugged the United Nations and didn't get caught. I taught Steven Seagal everything he "knows." I set up Martha Stewart for a prison term. I tipped off CNN to Howard Dean's affection for primal scream therapy. I singlehandedly swayed the SCOTUS to not grant cert to Silviera. I cribbed The Sixth Sense and Signs for M. Night Shamayalan. How? 'Cuz I said so on the internet.

Whaddya say to that? At least I know which country I am in and not kibbutzing about the Israeli version of the NRA. Pardon, who is that again, I feel like being a critical of them as a non-citizen.

 

[MicroBalrog]

Obviously, Boats, the documents related to the state of affairs in the GOH of Israel are written in arcane tongues and incomprehensible to non-citizens. D'oh... how could a non-citizen understand anything?

P.S. kibbitzing is the proper spelling.

 

[grampster]

See, Micro, that's why you are a Liberal. You have no sense of humor!

Boats really did mean "Kibbutzing" That was a play on words and he interjected a little humor into his missive. Sigh.......liberals, you gotta love em 'cause they miss all the joy and humor in the world.

Lighten up kiddo.

 

[Mark Tyson]

Okay, let's stop comparing brain pans . . .

I register Democrat because on the balance I line up with Democrats more than Republicans. Maybe it's because I grew up in a very liberal area, I don't know. On some other things I actually agree with Bush, and I don't hate the man like a lot of others do.

I'll cross party lines if need be, and I'll let The Party know about it. I'm working on a nasty-gram to the DLC over the dirty, ugly politics we saw in the Senate over the lawsuit immunity bill. I'm still seething over that. I'm going to photocopy the next check I send to NRA and send it to Terry McAuliffe's office, and tell them that the money could have gone to the party.

I hope Republicans will punish the traitors in their midst - Warner comes to mind - at the polls, and not just unhesitatingly vote for the "R" party because it's better than the "D" party.

And there's no way in hell I'm voting for John The Armor-Piercing Duck Hunter Kerry.

As for the patriot act I am confident that it can be fought in the courts. I also think that most of the people who voted for it will not be anxious about renewing it. There are other issues such as the material witness and immigrant detentions that are seperate from the patriot act; they can be exposed and fought by groups like the ACLU.

 

[Battler]

As an issue nothing comes CLOSE to that of wealth redistribution.

That the party that delays the growth of America's socialist institutions happens to be more pro-gun comes from the loose association between gun ownership and self reliance.

The effect on your life (pro or anti) of owning a gun is inconsequential compared to the effect of one person being able to take half of your working life, or some portion of your property, by pulling a lever in a polling booth. A burglar with murderous intent could take more than that from you (100% of your life); but on average they get much less.


I don't take the Democrats as particularly anti-war, it's just that Republicans aren't as loud opposing their opponent's wars.

I believe the protests against going into Iraq would have been 0 if Clint/Gore were in charge.

Where were the protesters in the Kosovo war? Is it a "quagmire" because US troops are still there? Where are the 100,000 dead people that were the pretext for the war? Did they lie when they found out the dead numbered in the low hundreds? Where were the cries of "the Serbs are no threat to us"? There were none, as the person in charge was a Democrat.

The only issue is wealth redistribution - 99% of the population takes sides on any given issue based on that.

Me - I don't despise Democrats for wanting to steal the guns I worked to earn. I despise them for wanting to take everything I work to earn.

 

[Greg Bell]

"I have an IQ of 135, and my SAT equivalent is 1400. What's yours? How many languages do you speak?"


WOW! Now the argument is all over. The guy with the highest IQ wins.

Wait a minute, I scored 158 Stanford-Binet! Now dogs, bow before me!

 

[MicroBalrog]

GB: I think you missed the point.

 

[Greg Bell]

Nah, just messin' with you!

 

[Mark Tyson]

There were protests of Clinton's foreign policy in Iraq and Kosovo. Before a series of strikes in Iraq there was a big one when Madeline Albright and Cohen visited a college campus. There were huge protests in Greece over US involvement in Kosovo, and Clinton's subsequent visit. Michael Moore says he is just as opposed to Clinton's military action as is to Bush's.

 

[Battler]

I can be twice as strong as you, yet if you build a house with your strength and I knock them down, it's all for naught.

So it is with intellect. I've often entered arguments with people smarter than myself who consider that their irrational human-hating philosophies must be right as they're being imposed by someone who probably couldn't score as high on an IQ test.

Do you use your intelligence to defend individual rights, or to intellectually evade that which is real or rationalize away some violation of your fellow man? Or perhaps join the ranks of those generating propoganda for useful idiots to run with?

A classic example of an accomplished anti-intellectual is Ralph Nader. That is one smart man. But he doesn't waste his time and brainpower inventing cars, or finding ways to get people to want to buy them. That's for mundanes and dumb-a**es. As a non-productive person, he has extra time to write up propoganda to make governments use their guns to force them to make cars he likes. He's smart enough to know better than the rest of us what kind of cars we should drive - it shouldn't be between mundanes (car makers and buyers), nosirree, can't bypass the mighty mind of Nader. He can whittle away the hours other spend inventing and working inventing great fallacies like "they'd never make safer cars, and people wouldn't want them, if I didn't force them to".


:banghead:

Other highly intelligent people who've bettered the lives of their fellow human beings through their ability to use intellectual evasions and propoganda include Karl Marx, Adolf Hitler, Fidel Castro, Pol Pot. . . . .

 

[HBK]

Too bad we don't have a "bow down" smiley. I stand corrected. Ignorant liberal. Is that better? How about misinformed liberal? A high IQ can't make up for a lack of horse sense. I wll no longer call my fellow posters idiots. BAD HBK!

 

[Battler]

The protests against the Kosovo war didn't add up to 1% of those against Iraq. All the big protest organizers sat that one out.

Wow, we had to go all the way to Greece (Orthodox buddies of the Serbs) to see a protest. That's some hardcore worldwide protesting going on, dude. I heard there was a bit of a protest in Russia, and one in Serbia, too!

 

[MicroBalrog]

Battler, again, you missed my point.

Namely, I am obviously not an idiot. And the patriot act is just as important as the AWB.

 

[Battler]

Michael Moore.

Yeah - let's all hear how Michael Moore bashed Klint as much or as loudly as he does Bush. How many anti-Clinton books were there?


He stayed pretty quiet (and the rest were more quiet), as Clinton was their best bet on the most relevant issue - the redistribution of wealth.

 

[Mark Tyson]

You are right - the protest movement was nowhere near as vocal as it is now. I'm not defending the anti-war movement, I'm telling what I remember. The streets did not fill in London and San Francisco over the crimes of Saddam, or the Russians in Chechnya, or the Serbs in Kosovo. That's exactly what pro-war
liberals like Christopher Hitchens and Thomas Friedman like to point out.

Moore's resentment of Clinton was never a secret, in fact he called Clinton "the best Republican president we ever had" for enactnig things like welfare reform.