To turn brass or just buy better brass

[bob4]

Money VS Time? I have a small amount of both so I was wondering what the pros and cons are. My goal is simply to be able to shoot a very tight hunting round @ 100 and 200 there has been talk about going to the bigger range just to see 3 and 400 just for fun. Both for confidence and bragging rights. Right now my hunting loads go where I need them to. This yr I was going to start separating by case heads as I seem to be acquiring a bunch. Then I was reading about neck turning. Then on to buying better brass. Norma as I'm not sure Lapua has it in 270 win.
Would some of you care to share your experiences and the pros and cons. Does better brass really make a difference? Would neck turning Winchester and RP brass have the same effect ?

 

[dennymac]

Money VS Time, for better groups

Greetings and salutations. First, what caliber are you shooting that needs better groups? What size groups are you getting now? And, what position are you trying to use to get better groups? You can get better groups from the offhand position by using a sitting position, and you can get better groups from the sitting position by using the prone position. You can better all of them by using a bench and a set of sand bags.
OK, now that is out of the way, on to your real question. Turning the necks on brass can bring group sizes down if the necks are not equal thickness all of the way around. Meaning that the hole is not in the center of the neck. You must be careful not to turn the necks too thin or the neck tension goes away. Bench rest shooters that turn necks have close tolerance chambers and use special dies with interchangeable bushings to get exactly the tension that they want on their turned necks. These rounds will not function in any rifle that they are not set up for. By not function, I do not mean that they will not fire. I mean that they will not give any improvement in performance over unturned necks. And, you can damage the brass by firing them in a chamber that is too large in the neck area. Neck turning is WAY down the list on what to do to brass to improve your groups. First, you separate by head stamp and weigh them out into separate groups according to weight. Of course, they have already been trimmed to the same length, deburred inside and out, and had the burr inside of the primer flash hole removed. Also, be sure to square up the bottoms of your primer pockets. They must all have been fired the same number of times, and from the same rifle. Next, you must be using a quality firearm and a caliber that will perform as you ask it to do. One cannot expect any lever action .30-30 to perform in the same class as any .270, as an example.
All of that being said, there are many things to do before you get to neck turning. Best of luck. DennyMac

 

[Walkalong]

Buy better brass.

 

[USSR]

Buy better brass.

+1. I went to all the trouble of turning some brass, and out-of-the-box Lapua out shot it every time.

Don

 

[witchhunter]

Be very careful turning brass necks, usually they get turned too much. This ends up making them worse. In my opinion, in a stock barreled hunting rifle it doesn't usually make enough of a difference. I do all the brass prep for my pdog rifles as I am trying for consistency, and repeatability. I have to draw the line somewhere as I use a lot of brass. Benchrest guys are more anal but they use a lot less brass and it shows on their groups. As long as I can get between 1/4 and 1/2 minute groups, I am cool.

 

[rcmodel]

Unless you have a minimum spec match chamber?

There is more harm to be done neck-turning then not.

An under-size case neck in an average commercial chamber just gives more wiggle-room for bullet mis-alignment in the chamber.

Don't waste your time or money either one, until you own a bench rest rifle with a very tight chamber to make it worth doing.

rc

 

[bob4]

Thanks everyone. After reading this it became a simple choice. Buy better brass it is.

 

[scottishkat]

As long as Winchester, Remington, Federal and Hornaday make brass we can discuss turning necks and concentricity at length. Their quality control is rather poor. Winchester at one time was as good a choice as any but we have more tools now to check it with today. OF brass is a fine alternative if you know the source was all factory it can be a lot of work taking OF brass from gas guns to shoot in bolt guns though.

I find that the higher end brass from Lapua has been excellent in my 260 rem and 308 win. IMHO these are the least expensive alternatives as you will generally get more reloadings from them. I have some 260 brass that is at 12 times reloaded no problems with necks or primer pockets as yet. I like to anneal the necks evey 2nd or 3rd time and neck size with the redding titanium nitride competition sizer as often as possible.

So with some prudent reloading it lasts it does take some time though.

Good luck and shoot straight.

 

[FROGO207]

As long as one is willing and able to pay for it better brass will ALWAYS be the better choice for many reasons. But sometimes there is a point of diminishing returns and the added cost just does not improve the end result enough to spend the extra cash IMHO. That is always the nagging question for us cheapskate reloaders.

 

[bob4]

Now to try and find Norma in 270. Hasn't been as easy as I thought. Figured there would be a small surplus of higher priced brass. Wrong again Bob.

 

[docsleepy]

If you're shooting 270, then you might consider full length sizing 30 ought six. My goal for a hunting rifle is to reduce wiggle room and someone above pointed out. So I take a parent cartridge and full length size it to the smaller neck, making the neck actually slightly thicker, reducing wiggle room.

The best reason to turn necks is because you have a tight neck in your rifle, so you buy brass that won't fit, and then turn it until it just barely fits. Then when it fires, the neck expands only a very tiny amount,

 

[ArchAngelCD]

Of the two choices I would also buy better brass but since you and I both have little money I wouldn't even bother buying better brass in this situation. Since you're not competing and this is hunting ammo I think it's a waste of time and money.

For hunting a 2 MOA rifle and ammo is more than good for ranges out to 200 yards. Most off the rack entry level rifles these days will do 1 MOA so I see no reason to try and turn a 1 MOA rifle into a .9 MOA rifle for hunting. That's my take on this...

 

[Walkalong]

I'll have to agree with that. If my hunting rifle will do 1 1/2" or better at 100 yards, I'm happy. That is what my .30-30 and .35 Remington will do. 1 1/4" to 1 1/2". Same for my .458 WM. When my first load for it would shoot three into right at 1 1/2" at 100 yards, I was tickled, and that was that. My .308 will do better than that, but I put a little more work into it as well.

Around here unless you have access to a long greenfield, pasture, etc, shots are close in.

 

[bob4]

So here's what I got thus far. 270 Win, Sierra 130 GR BT ,100yds. all ammo built to the same specs, only difference is Norma brass is it's first fireing.
(not fire formed) Obviously Winchester is out of the picture. Sad news is I have a lot of that brass. A bit surprised at what difference just the brass made. Very curious as to weather Norma will tighten up after fire-forming. But still very respectable fresh out of the box.
RP is my newest best-est friend so far. Can we buy that ? The one flyer in the RP pic I know for a fact I pulled on that shot.
I have a box of Hornady to try in place of Winchester next. Thanks to everyone who have helped me come this far.

 

[gamestalker]

I tried turning my brass many years ago thinking it would further enhance accuracy. Well, since I wasn't shooting a custom rig, and the amount I needed to turn had not been determined for my chambers, I was without a clue, so too speak, so I didn't experience any noticeable difference, positive of negative.

As for brass, the good stuff is accurate right out of the box. So that's probably the best route to go for easy to load accurate hunting or paper punching ammo.

But if you want to use average factory stuff, like Win, FC, and RP, sorting will greatly improve accuracy, if sorted correctly. And what I mean by that, is sort by head stamp and weight, but sort it after they have been resized, trimmed, reamed and chamfered. Different head stamps are usually quite different regarding metallurgy make up, so neck tension can be different, and spring back can vary, which is why head stamp sorting is essential.

GS

 

[oldeadeye]

I'm surprised Nosler was left out of the quality brass available to the reloaders in this forum. IMHO they put out the best bang for your buck... literally! Their custom brass is just that, and the prices are much better than Norma or Lapua.

 

[plmitch]

Now to try and find Norma in 270. Hasn't been as easy as I thought. Figured there would be a small surplus of higher priced brass. Wrong again Bob.

Midwayusa.com has it in stock dirt cheap.

 

[bob4]

Thanks plmitch. I have a box for now but will look to see just how cheap dirt cheap is. If it closes up my group a bit more after fire-forming I'll be interested in more.

 

[Offfhand]

Quoted from above post:

"There is more harm to be done neck-turning then not.
An under-size case neck in an average commercial chamber just gives more wiggle-room for bullet mis-alignment in the chamber."

Unfortunately, this seems to be a rather common misconception among shooters who don't understand neck turning and what can be accomplished by proper neck turning combined with expert loading techniques. And yes, even the accuracy of ordinary hunting rifles can be improved by neck turning.