too much magazine capacity?

[daddyo]

A few months ago my wife, daughter, and I were in the neighborhood of my dad's business and stopped by to see him. He was about to leave to go pick up my brother from the airport, so we decided to tag along. We got to the airport early, and my daughter loves to watch planes so Dad drove around to the back of the airport where we could get a good look. On the way back to the terminal, Dad got turned around and started wandering aimlessly around the 'hood that surrounds the airport. Boarded up houses abounded as Dad meandered his Lexus about looking for a familiar road. We stopped at a traffic light and Dad prattled on about eventually running into the freeway. My wife sat nervously in the front passenger seat. In front of an old gas station across the street, stood a thug with an unamused look on his face and his hand down the front of his pants. Sitting in the backseat, I uncovered my .357 knowing I could easily take him should the need arise. After all, I had 6 shots of 158 grain Hornady XTP's that I could put into a 2 inch hole at 25 yards. 6 shots equals 6 dead BG's right? About the time the light turned green and dad drove away in blissful ignorance, I suddenly realized that he was probably standing guard and realized that if he had 6 friends instead of 5 I would have been in real trouble and that's not even allowing for misses. I started carrying a speedload right the next day, and have now traded for a Ruger P89 15+1. When I go downtown, I carry an extra mag.

 

[Phil DeGraves]

"I don't think this happens too often, and, if it does 1 vs. 30 armed people is a losing situation no matter how many rounds you may have,"

Actually, 5 rounds might work better than you think. After all, no one wants to get shot. Once they realize that you are armed, they might be a little less likely to press the attack. On the other hand, angry packs of dogs DON'T think like that.
Look at it this way. Average hit percentage is about 30%. So assume that 70% of your rounds will miss the intended target (and this is because of movement, target focus, etc. This is not a slam on anybody's marksmanship ability). Consider also, that it takes an average of 3 rounds to stop anyone (humans are pretty resilient animals and are tough to stop). So with 5 rounds, you are only likely to hit with two and you need three to stop ONE target. A single five 5 shot revolver IS AN EXPERT'S WEAPON! Besides, the handgun is merely the tool by which you fight your way to additional firepower. Now, I like J-frames; good guns, easy to conceal. But I carry two or three with me most of the time.

"I don't want to lose a gunfight for lack of shooting back."
Deputy Clyde in UNFORGIVEN

 

[buzz_knox]

How many have gone through a training course with the anticipated carry weapon (even using it for only a few drills if it's one of the pocket guns)?

Doing so if very informative in terms of what you can and can't do with a firearm and what you'll prefer to have with you. It can validate or invalidate a lot of preconceived ideas about what is necessary or beneficial.

 

[CYANIDEGENOCIDE]

no, not a civilian except for the earlier mention of the LA watchmaker. BUT I know the mayor's goon squad in philly carries mp5 and chopped ar-15's. the ar's are fitted with beta mags when they are going into the really nasty part of town, of course they also roll in in packs of 4 cars per group, 4 guys per car. then again if i had people throwing cinder blocks off the roof and shooting at me i would probably want a 100 rounds too

 

[LiquidTension]

Harry Beckwith fired 105 shots at 7 attackers. That the kind of thing you're looking for?

 

[ctdonath]

Knew a guy who went thru 50 rounds when ambushed in a parking lot. Local kids thought they'd use him for target practice, and were hiding in bushes at night.

The reason for extra capacity: when you run out, you're out. Make sure you don't run out.
Now while a Beta-C Mag (100 rounds) is clearly impractical, 17 is only trivally larger/heavier than 5.

 

[blackcash88]

I beg to differ.

Too much ammo can get ya KILLED!

How? Because a LOADED gun that weights too much, to ALWAYS have on you, means you are defenseless when it is needed. IMHO, a G17 with a G18 34 round magazine that's NOT within reach = ZERO ammo.

Oh, fer chrissake, people. Puh-leeze... I guess we shouldn't be wearing motorcycle helmets or seat belts either because they can be "uncomfortable", too.

Some of you need to eat your Wheaties or something. Man up, grow a pair and realize the insignificant weight difference of 15 rounds of 9mm and 5 rounds of .38...or whatever.

Besides, who the heck carries a Glock with a G18 magazine? You couldn't even conceal the damned thing aside from your "weight issue". Non issue. Get real.

 

[Soybomb]

. It really is a question of statistics.

If it were just a question of just statistics I wouldn't carry a gun, have health insurace, or put on a seat belt. When you decide you should carry a gun you've decided to throw statistics in front of a bus.

 

[GEM]

No one is using statistics correctly. I say this all the time, having taught this for years!!

Folks babble about the central tendency as if that is the only thing that happens and forget about distribution shape and/or variance. They don't talk about confidence intervals or cutoff in the tail based on a reasonable risk level. They don't talk about the relative worth of the various kinds of errors that occur based on these factors.

Bah, bah - phooey :banghead:

 

[mr.72]

Bearing in mind I have owned a gun for a whole month and I am at least three months from getting my CHL, but from my limited experience it appears that:

- you must adapt your clothing and lifestyle somewhat to carry *any* weapon (to begin with anyway)
- a 15-17 round capacity weapon is not dramatically larger, and only in some cases even heavier, than a 5-8 round weapon

So, given these facts it appears to me that if I am going to adapt to carry, I should go ahead and adapt to carry a high-capacity weapon. Certainly there are a dozen caveats to this but as a rule, more capacity has to be better, as long as there is not an untenable tradeoff. A few ounces and 1/4" or so greater grip width may be an untenable tradeoff for people with very small hands but for most everybody I who is inclined to carry in the first place, I would think this is pretty much totally doable.

 

[blackcash88]

- a 15-17 round capacity weapon is not dramatically larger, and only in some cases even heavier, than a 5-8 round weapon

Yeah, some of these people complain about how hard and uncomfortable it is to carry a "heavy" high capacity pistol, yet they'll carry an all steel single stack 1911 or large frame revolver that's even heavier.

Yeah, all that extra ammo isn't needed, right? While we're at it, let's govern cars to the speed limit or, better yet, limit the displacement/horsepower so people can't speed. After all, people will never need that extra speed for accelerating away from a potential accident, right?

 

[swifteagle]

I carry a Glock 19 with 1 in the chamber & 15 in the magazine, plus a spare mag with another 15 rounds. I also have some loaded spare magazines in my cars & in my safe. Hopefully I'll never need all 31+ rounds, but I'd rather have more than I need than not enough.

 

[Jimmy Newman]

- you must adapt your clothing and lifestyle somewhat to carry *any* weapon (to begin with anyway)
- a 15-17 round capacity weapon is not dramatically larger, and only in some cases even heavier, than a 5-8 round weapon

I will agree that you have to adapt your lifestyle somewhat.

However, a 15 round handgun does not exist that is anywhere close to as small as a j-frame revolver or single stack pocket .32, .380, or 9mm. Not even in the same ballpark. And all of those guns can go in a pants pocket, and if anyone even notices they will think they have seen your cellphone or wallet (assuming you have a proper pocket holster... don't pocket carry a pocket gun without a holster).

With that said, the couple of times I have carried, I've carried my Walther P99, which would hold 15 rounds if it were 9mm. It's a .40S&W, so it holds 12. As long as I don't wear a tight shirt, it's not noticable at all.

 

[OOOXOOO]

I carry a 642 every once and a while and I feel as safe as I do with my Glock 19. That being said my reload is another loaded 642. Carry what is comfortable and you are good with. If you a worried about a protracted engagement bring a rifle or don't go there.

 

[ProficientRifleman]

too much magazine capacity?

I agree YOU don't NEED those Hi-cap magazines.

Why don't you go ahead and turn them over to me?

 

[Sage of Seattle]

If ANYBODY finds two magazines of ammo too heavy to carry, I would like to make the friendly suggestion that they immediately check themselves into a facility that provides care for the physically infirm.

Some people ARE physically infirm enough to not be able to carry 30+ rounds every day. Glad to see that you, for one, look down upon those foolish enough to think that they're good with less than 30 rounds of ammo, for whatever reason.

Sometimes, comfort and concealability are of prime concern, with ammo capacity coming in as a secondary or even tertiary concern for many people.

 

[MachIVshooter]

We can argue this back and forth all day long. There are instances where 30 or 40 rounds weren't enough to stop one BG, and other times when 3 or 4 rounds put two attackers down (happened here in CO a couple years back). Point is, we should all carry as much as we're comfortable with.

I'm perfectly comfortable with a 7 or 8 round gun and one reload 99% of the time. When I occasionally venture into worse parts of town and expect to be away from my car (where the long guns are), I will generally have my Witness Compact 10mm (11+1) with 1 or 2 (maybe 3) extra mags.

 

[Monkeybear]

I think the problem with this argument is that we end up defending the ammunition, as if it actually needed to be defended. I am the same man regardless of whether I have 1,000 rounds on me or none so why dose it matter how much I choose to carry?

A gun that holds 5 rounds is not morally superior to one that holds 30.

 

[siglite]

A gun that holds 5 rounds is not morally superior to one that holds 30.

Really really good point. Very well said.

 

[Sage of Seattle]

A gun that holds 5 rounds is not morally superior to one that holds 30.

A gun cannot be moral or immoral. But many people in this thread seem to think that 30 rounds is pretty much in every way better than five rounds. Perhaps it is their air of superiority that you attribute to morals and guns.

 

[blackhawk2000]

I get it. You are one of those guys who thinks 1 shot = 1 kill. So by your reasoning you could take on 5 bad guys with your Jframe, and be good to go.

You do realize handguns suck as far as stopping power goes, right?

 

[.cheese.]

can you have too much???

no. How would a gun have too much? As long as it's comfortable to carry, I say let it have as many as they can fit in it.

Personally I carry a 5-shot most days. I have no qualms about carrying a 13 round capacity Glock though, and do often. I just personally find carrying my 5 shot easier to conceal. If they could fit 100 rounds into the same size gun, I'd buy it.

 

[Flash!]

I consider my carry gun to be not only for self defense but also a survival tool.... as I do spend some time in the great outdoors, If I get lost or stranded in the wilderness, I want as much ammo as possible for hunting etc.....gotta have food to survive...

 

[Sage of Seattle]

I get it. You are one of those guys who thinks 1 shot = 1 kill. So by your reasoning you could take on 5 bad guys with your Jframe, and be good to go.

You do realize handguns suck as far as stopping power goes, right?

If you're talking to me, I think you don't get it. I have never stated my thoughts on how many shots it takes or may take to kill someone.

All I've ever really expressed in this thread is for those who think that a person is foolish or whatever for not maxing out their ammo capacity for whatever reason take their crappy attitude elsewhere.

 

[gym]

It's all up to what we are programmed to accept. I carried a 5 shot revolder or a ppks, for some 23 years in NY, when I moved down to FL, everyone was talking about multiple attackers and the like. I bought into it for a while and bought a dozen guns in a 4 yr period, then I realise that it's just a way to get people to buy more stuff. Now I carry an 8 round 9mm or a 5 shot 38 snubby revolver. I keep an extra clip or speedloader in my pocket. As far as the 10 ninjas attacking me with full auto weapons. I am not worried, at close range if you are still standing while you swap lead with a group of people, too much tv. The more time that goes by the higher your chance of getting hit There is a website that I remember looking at for armed bodygaurds, the kind that protect jewlers and courriers ,when they travel, they get thousands of dollars per day. And I remember reading how when they hit these guys from ambush, evryone is dead in a matter of seconds. So the idea of standing threre like john Wayne exchanging shots with several armed men, is faulty to begin with, if anything you would try and lay down cover fire while getting your butt as far away as possible