too much magazine capacity?

[Monkeybear]

I find odd those that can accept that one can carry a firearm on their person without it meaning that they have delusions of ninja-dom and yet automatically assume that anyone with 20+ rounds, which is a compact sized autoloader and spare magazine, aspires to be John Rambo.

What it all comes down to is that if you can safely own and carry a firearm then the amount of ammunition you carry matters not, except in cases where you don't have enough.

 

[Monkeybear]

A gun cannot be moral or immoral.

Exactly. Neither can ammo, not even in "high capacity" magazine.

But many people in this thread seem to think that 30 rounds is pretty much in every way better than five rounds. Perhaps it is their air of superiority that you attribute to morals and guns.

Hypothetical question: Someone is going to try to kill you tomorrow but you don't know who, when or where. Do you carry 5 round on your person or 30?

One worst-case-scenario as you go about your daily business is that someone might try to kill you or your families. Not very likely to happen but it dose happen. Now if you are the sort who likes to be a little prepared for the WCSs when you can and you can carry 30 without burden why wouldn't you? Doesn't turn you into Harry Callahan, just means you have a heavier belt.

 

[evan price]

"No honest man needs more than 10 rounds in any gun…"
"I never meant for simple civilians to have my 20 and 30 round magazines…"

--- William B. Ruger, 6/21/16-7/6/02

 

[Defensory]

Posted by Harvster:
What if you are facing 90 armed thugs? suddenly your 66 rounds seems a little inadequate. It really is a question of statistics.

Not nearly as inadequate as five rounds! It's not a question of statistics, it's a question of common sense.

 

[Sato Ord]

I've been up since four-thirty this morning with some of the worst PTSD symptoms I've had in a while, so bear with me, I'm still on my first cup of coffee and I haven't quite got my head screwed back into place yet.

I've been trying to come up with a reason you shouldn't carry so much ammo, or use high-cap mags.

Getting sued because "with that much ammo you had to be looking for trouble", and yadda-yadda-yadda.

Then I realized how hypocritical that seems to me since I'm sitting here with my Smith on my hip with a full fourteen round clip!

Carry what is comfortable for you. If a high cap mag is more weight than you feel comfortable shooting with, put fewer rounds in it. If you feel ok with seventeen, then more power to ya!

When it all is said and done, its whether or not you hit what you aim at. Just because someone is carrying eighteen in the weapon, at the ready, doesn't make him, or her (no sense being sexist) a mall ninja who will spray fire all over the place while wetting his/her pants.

By the same token, just because someone has a J frame doesn't automatically make him/her dead meat at the hands of the local "Slicer-Dicer gang".

 

[Clipper]

My hands are wide, and my fingers are kinda short. So double-stack mag pistols feel like holding the big end of a baseball bat. I carry a PF-9, and don't feel handicapped by its 7+1 capacity at all, but then again, I usually hit what I'm aiming at...

 

[Harvster]

Actually the grip is a primary reason why the Mrs. chose the gun. She hated the way my j frame felt in her hand. And even though my hands are big enough, to me the M&P 9 feels like trying to get a firm grip on a bowling ball.

 

[givo08]

I've seen a statistic that says cops have a ~20% hit rate (1 in 5 shots) in an armed confrontation. Now lets say you're mugged by 2 people and only have 5 shots...

 

[jungleroy]

Well if 5 rounds does for you, congratulations.
For me I feel comfortable with 15 rounds in my magazine, and 30 more on my belt.
I train weekly, with most of my family and friends, and those 45 rounds of 40SW, can be used in less than a minute.
.
My sig line has always shown my opinion on the subject.
.

 

[Harvster]

I've seen a statistic that says cops have a ~20% hit rate (1 in 5 shots) in an armed confrontation. Now lets say you're mugged by 2 people and only have 5 shots...

I have always thought that if there are two of them when I'm aiming and firing at the first guy at least on or two of my errant shots will probably end up hitting the other guy.

 

[buzz_knox]

I have always thought that if there are two of them when I'm aiming and firing at the first guy at least on or two of my errant shots will probably end up hitting the other guy.

Defense attorneys across the nation just felt a shiver down their collective backs on that one.

 

[AlaskaErik]

If you were in this situation

Would five rounds be enough? This just happened April 27, 2008. I consider five rounds a good start. But I'm not a wheel gun man. My only wheel gun, a Colt Trooper malfunctioned the last time I shot it. Normally I carry a Glock 23 with one spare mag. 26 rounds would make me feel a lot better if I were approached by 15 thugs.

http://ap.google.com/article/ALeqM5jYndpW6cS3ZgCtGkwPyH26d_N3CAD90KDLK03

 

[Soybomb]

Would five rounds be enough? This just happened April 27, 2008. I consider five rounds a good start. But I'm not a wheel gun man. My only wheel gun, a Colt Trooper malfunctioned the last time I shot it. Normally I carry a Glock 23 with one spare mag. 26 rounds would make me feel a lot better if I were approached by 15 thugs.

In all fairness though, does that story apply to most of us? It seems to be posting a story about some fight with a gang and "defending honor" is as applicable to most of us as the story of a soldier in the sand box who needed 15 30 round mags one day. Most of us aren't going to be in situations like that.

 

[buzz_knox]

Most people won't be in situations where they have to pull a trigger at all. So, we should not need to carry ammunition.

 

[Sage of Seattle]

One worst-case-scenario as you go about your daily business is that someone might try to kill you or your families. Not very likely to happen but it dose happen. Now if you are the sort who likes to be a little prepared for the WCSs when you can and you can carry 30 without burden why wouldn't you? Doesn't turn you into Harry Callahan, just means you have a heavier belt.

Sure. And, frankly, I agree with carrying as much ammo AS YOU PERSONALLY ARE COMFORTABLE WITH. My only problem is when a person is SEEMINGLY looked down upon by some in this thread because of the simple fact that they are comfortable at a lower round count than their detractors are.

I bought a .40 Springer XD a few years back; it came with two 13-round mags and I ended up buying another mag simply because the cheapo mag carrier it came with held two mags. So I would have ended up carrying 40 rounds of .40 cal HP on my belt on a daily basis. I got rid of the XD for several reasons, the main reason was that I was uncomfortable with carrying a pistol without a manual safety. But I certainly don't go around and berate people for liking guns without manual safeties. I am a strong proponent of open carry and often see lots of abuse heaped onto open carriers on THR. I do not berate those who think CC is the only way to carry either.

Right now, as I said, I'm comfortable with 6+1, and I'd feel better with a spare mag (which I don't have at the moment), but 6+1 is better than 0+0, and if I'm attacked by a group of armed robbers and I happen to die during that encounter because I wasn't carrying enough ammo... well, for one thing, how would I ever know? Maybe, just maybe, I should have tied a double knot in my shoelace, then it wouldn't have come undone while I was suddenly confronted by several armed BGs and so I wouldn't have tripped and broke my arm, and I therefore probably should have practiced daily my "shoot with a broken arm" technique in order to have maximized my chances of survival.

Then again, people who remember the quote of "nobody ever complained of ever needing too much ammo" can also remember a second, perhaps less familiar quote: "you can do everything right and still get killed."

The thing is, I've taken precautions that are comfortable to me; I just wish that my choices can be respected in a similar regard to the way I respect others' choices in how they carry.

 

[Soybomb]

Most people won't be in situations where they have to pull a trigger at all. So, we should not need to carry ammunition.

Surely there's a comfortable place in the middle we can find. I'll probably not be in a car wreck when I drive, but I put on a seatbelt just in case. I don't put on a kevlar jumpsuit, strap into a 5 point harness and put on a spiffy helmet. The seatbelt alone seems to be where most of us feel the trade off for safety vs. convenience/inconvenience meet.

I think basing your self defense choices on what happens to guy that defend their honor or other gang related rubbish is a bit like using nascar wrecks to decide what car safety measures are appropriate. If you're going to do a serious assessment of potential risks to you and plan around that, I think that scenario is so unlikely you have to throw it out. Unless you're involved with gangs of course.

 

[buzz_knox]

The thing is, I've taken precautions that are comfortable to me; I just wish that my choices can be respected in a similar regard to the way I respect others' choices in how they carry.

That's the ultimate point. It's everyone's choice as to what risks they want to plan for and bear. And it's just as wrong to tell someone they have to carry multiple 15 round mags as it is to say they are foolish if they choose to do so.

 

[buzz_knox]

Surely there's a comfortable place in the middle we can find. I'll probably not be in a car wreck when I drive, but I put on a seatbelt just in case. I don't put on a kevlar jumpsuit, strap into a 5 point harness and put on a spiffy helmet. The seatbelt alone seems to be where most of us feel the trade off for safety vs. convenience/inconvenience meet.

I think basing your self defense choices on what happens to guy that defend their honor or other gang related rubbish is a bit like using nascar wrecks to decide what car safety measures are appropriate.

There is no comfortable middle because that requires everyone to compromise on what they perceive as a threat. If you are living in a lovely area where nothing goes wrong, you might want pepper spray for a dog (i.e. no rounds). If you live in that same area and some car jackers are passing through, you might want multiple rounds.

I live in a great area where crime is low. I can go a few minutes and be in gang territory. I can continue on and shortly be at the scene of a nationally known double rape/homicide that started with multiple carjackers. I can go in another direction and be at an area where 41 rounds were fired by cops at a lunatic, with only one or two connecting. I can drive a couple hours and be in an area where MS13 is making its presence known.

Which "scenario" do I compromise on? Which one do I force someone else to accept as likely as part of the compromise?

Everyone is responsible for their own safety. Everyone is entitled to determine what meets their needs. There are far too many knowledgable people advising us to carry spare mags, high caps, backups, etc for those who choose to do to be disparaged. There are also far too many knowledgable people saying a J-frame will get you through if you do "your part" for those who choose to carry a J-frame to be disparaged.

This brings me back to a question a while back: how many people are getting trained with their carry weapon of choice, whether J-frame or Glock? How many people are getting third party objective evaluations of their skills and choices, as opposed to "ballistic masturbation" that we all are prone to?

 

[BackCountry]

If I were in a situation where I was going to need my gun, I would want my AR with a minimum of 5 - 30 round magazines on me with another 2000 rounds in my truck. The first 150 rounds would allow me to get to my truck where I would have plenty more.

 

[hrgrisso]

Example

How about Rory Vertigan. 14 shots fired.

There was another incident mentioned earlier where a CCW Holder here in the Valley opened fire on a guy(s?) who were assaulting a LEO. He used his Glock 31 or 32 and fired till dry and reloaded firing again. Something like twenty rounds fired.

So is there a need for higher capacity for CCW'ers and Civilians!? Indeedy. Do we need a reason? I think that's already been addressed.

I have a buddy who says that if he can't kill his attackers in six shots from his smith snubby they deserve to kill him. I told him deserve it or not if I fight I'm in it to win. I believe that's the best question.

If you feel 5 or 6 is enough, fine. That's your choice. As for me and mine, we'll choose high capacity.

 

[Harvster]

hrgrisso- Good link. Makes me wonder how many other such stories never made it past the local news level. Maybe that's why I haven't heard about too many of them.

 

[yesit'sloaded]

Reason for high caps. http://blog.cleveland.com/metro/2008/04/man_beaten_to_death_on_clevela.html

A 41-year-old man was beaten to death around 2:30 a.m. Sunday near the intersection of East 113th Street and St. Clair Avenue.

Police were told that about 15 males beat Charles Gooden, Lt. Thomas Stacho said.

Officers found the area quiet upon arrival, but drove around and found Gooden, who had been severely beaten at 536 E. 117th St. He was taken to Huron Hospital, where he died, Stacho said.

No one has been arrested and detectives are interviewing potential witnesses, Stacho said.

 

[Crunker1337]

Heh, you probably won't need so many rounds, but then, you probably won't need your gun at all in your life, hopefully.

 

[Clipper]

I've seen a statistic that says cops have a ~20% hit rate (1 in 5 shots) in an armed confrontation. Now lets say you're mugged by 2 people and only have 5 shots...

Well, statistics aside, my personal experience is that in general, cops are the crummiest shots I've ever shot against. Being 80% better than they are would not surprise me...

 

[akodo]

Honestly, you will probably never need 17 rounds of ammo.

But honestly, you will probably never need a defensive handgun at all.

Most of us here realize that 'probably' isn't worth betting your life on.

Second, if you DO need a handgun to defend yourself, you probably won't fire more than 2 shots. Have you ever considered leaving 3 chambers empty in your revolver cylinder?