Just wondering,when you load up your CCW do you just smack a mag in it,rack the slide and go or do you pull the mag and top it off with another round? I generally leave it downloaded by that one round to take some heat off the mag spring. An article I read years ago showed that adding the last round multiplied the stress on the spring a huge amount due to stacking. However lately I`ve been thinking (dangerous I know...) that I don`t download my spare mags by one so why not top off the one in the gun? Marcus
Topping mags off,who does it?
- Thread starter Marcus
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joegerardi
Member
I top mine off. Mag springs aren't THAT expensive, and range time lets me know when they are getting weak.
..Joe
..Joe
nemesis
Member
Top 'em off, carry extra mags, more loaded mags in my truck.
Flashpoint
Member
Top it off
I've heard that it the loading and inloading that is the hardest on the springs.
Along the same line...
How many drop a round into the barrel then drop the slide then pop the mag in vs. topping the mag off? How many don't drop a round in the barrel for fear of slam fire, and what is the likely hood of a slam fire?
I've heard that it the loading and inloading that is the hardest on the springs.
Along the same line...
How many drop a round into the barrel then drop the slide then pop the mag in vs. topping the mag off? How many don't drop a round in the barrel for fear of slam fire, and what is the likely hood of a slam fire?
I always top off. Springs wear based on being 'cycled' (compressed and decompressed) not by being placed under pressure. There have been countless tales of people firing magazines that have been left loaded for decades with no trouble at all.
Black Majik
Member
I dont follow this, since for the 1911 that would cause a lot of stress on the extractor. So its a rule of thumb I have w. all my other autos.
A no-no in my book.
Hemicuda
member
pop it and top it... 9 rounds of .40 GOTTA be better then 8, and 1 round doesn't weigh THAT much...
Flashpoint
Member
Not being a smarty pants, but please explain to me how is releasing the slide different for the natural cycling of the slide as far as impact on the extractor?
I top 'em off. Marcus, your last sentence explains why. Having a topped off mag in a pistol is no different, spring wise, than having topped off spare mags.
rbernie
Contributing Member
In a normal feed cycle, the rim of the cartridge slides up from the magazine and under the extractor. However, if you insert a round directly into the chamber and drop the slide, the extractor has to 'snap' over the rim of the cartidge.
That's hard on the nose of the extractor, and you're asking the extractor to move/bend in a motion that is just not 'normal' for it. Drop the mag and top it off.
according to what source? I carry an extra mag, for various reasons. In case i need to clear a mag related jam, and in case I get caught in a MURPHY's LAW kind of situation and have to unleash hell on person (s) unknown that intend to do me harm.
WonderNine
member
Well, a topped off mag in the gun usually does have more tension on the spring than a topped off spare mag that is not in the gun.
I always have all my mags topped off though. That's what they were designed for. And I've never noticed any weakened springs because of it.
tcdrennen
Member
I haven't been topping off (and for IDPA I carry a "barney mag" for chambering the first round, then insert a full mag) feeling that 16 rounds ( I do carry a spare full 8 rounder) should be sufficient - I'd better have either neutralized the attack or found a way to retreat to safety by then.
There're a couple of spare loaded mags in my truck console (the safety I'd probably be retreating to!) or at home I just need to get to my shottie or wait for the reinforcements if trapped.
And after all, chambering the first round from an 8 rounder leaves me with what God and John Moses Browning intended anyway: 7 + 1.
There're a couple of spare loaded mags in my truck console (the safety I'd probably be retreating to!) or at home I just need to get to my shottie or wait for the reinforcements if trapped.
And after all, chambering the first round from an 8 rounder leaves me with what God and John Moses Browning intended anyway: 7 + 1.
since i grew up with the 1911, i've always topped off the mag in the gun...no sense carrying only 6+1. there really is more pressure on the mag in the gun than the spares...the top round is depressed by the slide riding over it...that is why i rotate which mag goes into the mag well.
dropping a round in the chamber and dropping the slide is death to internal extractors...talk to ernest langdon about the number they broke when doing FTE drills with their 1911s...and is much more common than a slamfire. i preached against the practice until i started carrying a beretta 96...it is designed to be loaded that way.
the only two pistols i load by inserting a round in the chamber is my beretta and hk p7
dropping a round in the chamber and dropping the slide is death to internal extractors...talk to ernest langdon about the number they broke when doing FTE drills with their 1911s...and is much more common than a slamfire. i preached against the practice until i started carrying a beretta 96...it is designed to be loaded that way.
the only two pistols i load by inserting a round in the chamber is my beretta and hk p7
Feanaro
Member
Oh really? Perhaps you might want to do some more research before you believe that. And even if it is statistically unlikely that you will need an extra mag/round, it is also unlikely that you will even have to shoot a single round at all. It seems that merely presenting the pistol will scare most criminals off. So obviously, having any ammunition in the pistol is paranoid.
Having an extra magazine will almost certainly not kill you but the lack of one if you happen to run dry in a fight almost certainly will.
WonderNine
member
Shouldn't do it with a BHP either.
I do not top off my CCW gun. Reason being I'm constantly loading and unloading due to traveling on/off a military installation. I'd rather not have loose rounds rolling around inside my truck. The security police don't take to kindly to loose ammo. Been there, done that.
I'll load the mag up completely, insert it into the gun, rack slide and I'm good to go. Although I do carry a spare magazine. Not because I'm expecting to use over 8 rounds, but for the quick resolution of mag related problems. Your gun might run flawless for 10,000 rounds, but you know when you REALLY need it, you'll have a mag problem. And hopefully, I'm on top of that problem with the spare.
Ed
I'll load the mag up completely, insert it into the gun, rack slide and I'm good to go. Although I do carry a spare magazine. Not because I'm expecting to use over 8 rounds, but for the quick resolution of mag related problems. Your gun might run flawless for 10,000 rounds, but you know when you REALLY need it, you'll have a mag problem. And hopefully, I'm on top of that problem with the spare.
Ed
1911Tuner
Moderator Emeritus
Hold the Topping
Howdy all,
Since this is a Habit/Opinion thread....
I don't top off the magazine...for a couple of reasons, and neither one is
related to the spring, though that last round does add a lot of stress to
the spring when it's in the gun, but not carried as a spare.
One is that it is less stressful to the floorplate's welds. Not as big an issue if a removeable floorplate design is used...but still a factor even then.
Won't argue that point further than to say that nothing can be discounted,
and that ANYthing that has the opportunity to affect a part will do just that.
I don't carry mag capacity+one in the spout for the simple reason that
the most likely time to have a feed-related malfunction is on the top
round in a full magazine and the last round. How many have had a hitch in the getalong when chambering the top round in a magazine that runs flawlessly during live fire? Even occasionally? The reason is that there is
maximum drag on the slide at that point in the magazine. Drag bleeds off
momentum. Yes, I know that you can't get the same speed and momentum by hand-cycling the slide as you get during live-fire, but
remember the dictum: Everything means SOMEthing, and anything that CAN affect the function WILL have SOME effect.
The last round because there is minimum tension on the follower. The
last round is most critical because it must get to feeding position in time to
meet the slide. If it gets up a split second late, we get rideover feeds...or
Bolt-Over-base...and push-feeds, where the round gets knocked out of the
magazine ahead of the slide by the extractor. The result is a failure to go to battery, or...if the extractor climbs the rim and chambers the round...
broken extractor hooks or no tension on the extractor.
The last round issue is addressed with a good strong spring and a tiny
little tit on the top of the follower, but this tends to contribute the top round problem...or at least the chance of a top-round problem with a
topped-off magazine. Solution: Use Wolff 11-pound magfazine springs
in a 7-round magazine with a proper follower, load 7 rounds in the magazine, chamber the top round, engage the safety and be happy.
In the event that you'll have to reload, which is pretty slim...the stress
on the weld won't be a concern and the chances are good that the pistol will function, even though slightly reduced. Much more of a concern that
the pistol function on the first 2 or 3 rounds because the matter is usually
settled at that point anyway, and the argument for more capacity is at least
moot.
I don't use 8-round magazines in a 1911...not even for range work.
Just my nickel's worth...
Tuner
Howdy all,
Since this is a Habit/Opinion thread....
I don't top off the magazine...for a couple of reasons, and neither one is
related to the spring, though that last round does add a lot of stress to
the spring when it's in the gun, but not carried as a spare.
One is that it is less stressful to the floorplate's welds. Not as big an issue if a removeable floorplate design is used...but still a factor even then.
Won't argue that point further than to say that nothing can be discounted,
and that ANYthing that has the opportunity to affect a part will do just that.
I don't carry mag capacity+one in the spout for the simple reason that
the most likely time to have a feed-related malfunction is on the top
round in a full magazine and the last round. How many have had a hitch in the getalong when chambering the top round in a magazine that runs flawlessly during live fire? Even occasionally? The reason is that there is
maximum drag on the slide at that point in the magazine. Drag bleeds off
momentum. Yes, I know that you can't get the same speed and momentum by hand-cycling the slide as you get during live-fire, but
remember the dictum: Everything means SOMEthing, and anything that CAN affect the function WILL have SOME effect.
The last round because there is minimum tension on the follower. The
last round is most critical because it must get to feeding position in time to
meet the slide. If it gets up a split second late, we get rideover feeds...or
Bolt-Over-base...and push-feeds, where the round gets knocked out of the
magazine ahead of the slide by the extractor. The result is a failure to go to battery, or...if the extractor climbs the rim and chambers the round...
broken extractor hooks or no tension on the extractor.
The last round issue is addressed with a good strong spring and a tiny
little tit on the top of the follower, but this tends to contribute the top round problem...or at least the chance of a top-round problem with a
topped-off magazine. Solution: Use Wolff 11-pound magfazine springs
in a 7-round magazine with a proper follower, load 7 rounds in the magazine, chamber the top round, engage the safety and be happy.
In the event that you'll have to reload, which is pretty slim...the stress
on the weld won't be a concern and the chances are good that the pistol will function, even though slightly reduced. Much more of a concern that
the pistol function on the first 2 or 3 rounds because the matter is usually
settled at that point anyway, and the argument for more capacity is at least
moot.
I don't use 8-round magazines in a 1911...not even for range work.
Just my nickel's worth...
Tuner
Lobotomy Boy
Member
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- 2,449
Good points, Tuner. At the range on Saturday a guy had one round of .45 ACP left and gave it to me, which was considerate, but presented a mathamatical problem. Since I didn't want to have a loose round in my gun bag, I decided to shoot one magazine 10+1. My Glock 21 didn't like that at all. I loaded the extra round before inserting the mag because I didn't want to go back to the bench and dig out my loading tool (the only sure way to get the tenth round in my mags without getting it jammed in the feeder lips). When I shot the first round, I noticed the slide cycled roughly. It didn't jam, but it felt like it might.
twbredw
Member
depends on if im carrying a full capacity mag or a post ban mag full caps i load fully and put the first one in chamber on 10 rounders i top them off
sorny
Member
I keep mine loaded all the time anyways with one in the chamber, ALWAYS (even when the gun is not being carried or just in my nightstand) and the mag topped off. But I guess this question could mean when I do have to reload, what do I do. If I'm going CCW I top it off 99% of the time, especially when I'm carrying a low capacity gun, like my Sig P230 which only holds 8 rounds of .380 in the mag.
cratz2
Member
My rule: at the range, I don't waste time inserting a mag twice before shooting... Just pop in a full mag and load up and get to shooting.
On my CCW piece, there are as many bullets loaded as possible. With 1911s, the mags I use are 8 rounders with rounded followers that drops capacity back to 7 rounds so I would carry 7+1.
Just to be sure Flashpoint, I never load a bullet throuh the ejection port... that's not how ANY gun is supposed to be loaded even if it is possible. For full capacity, insert a fully loaded magazine, rack and drop the slide, either decock the pistol or put it on safe, remove the magazine and put one more bullet in the magazine and re-insert the magazine into the gun.
I must admit that I rarely ever carry an extra magazine... Probably due to laziness, I guess.
On my CCW piece, there are as many bullets loaded as possible. With 1911s, the mags I use are 8 rounders with rounded followers that drops capacity back to 7 rounds so I would carry 7+1.
Just to be sure Flashpoint, I never load a bullet throuh the ejection port... that's not how ANY gun is supposed to be loaded even if it is possible. For full capacity, insert a fully loaded magazine, rack and drop the slide, either decock the pistol or put it on safe, remove the magazine and put one more bullet in the magazine and re-insert the magazine into the gun.
I must admit that I rarely ever carry an extra magazine... Probably due to laziness, I guess.
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