Tourist Visa + Hunting License = Open Carry?

[Art Eatman]

Fosbery, if you're ever down my way in the SW Texas desert country, hunt me up. You can get a Texas non-resident hunting license. I can loan you all manner of gear and toys, and around 50,000 acres to play in. All legal.

You buy the beer.

 

[solareclipse]

In a nutshell,

No Green Card (Permanent Resident Alien), No Legal Purchase.

Even with a Green Card when the FFL fills in the 4473 form you still have to show 90 days residence in that state, typically via utility or credit card bills etc. Green Card, state issued ID and proof of residence.

You do NOT have to have local state issued ID (such as a drivers licence) although it is a pain in the arse if you don't.

You then have to show your Green Card AND your passport AND your utility bills and the wait for Go/No-Go tends to be extended.

With a hunting licence you can take temporary physical control of a firearm for the purposes of hunting and associated tasks (such as time at a range for sighting in). This is not to be confused with ownership or possession of the firearm.

Few LEO's will have any idea of the intricacies of this area of the law so if you get pulled over for some other reason and the issue of why you have a firearm with a tourist visa comes up expect to be held for a while whilst this gets batted backwards and forwards.

This is ONLY applicable for Federal law and if you are in a state such as New Jersey which mandates a Firearms ID card you are SOL in general.

wrong. but honestly why bother correcting what has already been disproven (again) in this very thread

and you do realize that a permanent resident card is a government id eh? and a permanent resident does NOT have to by law show STATE residency............ but no point in wasting my clicks

meh why bother. sigh

 

[Dark Skies]

I have an unhappy mental image of Fosbery being questioned by burly policemen, spread over the hood of a patrol car, cuffed and spending many, many, hours in a cell while awaiting deportation - never to be allowed Stateside again.

Chap, this sounds like such a bad idea.

 

[everallm]

wrong. but honestly why bother correcting what has already been disproven (again) in this very thread

and you do realize that a permanent resident card is a government id eh? and a permanent resident does NOT have to by law show STATE residency............ but no point in wasting my clicks

meh why bother. sigh

Shows how little you know and how great your ignorance.

Have a look at a 4473, the section and instructions are quite plain.

Have a look at thre ATF's own guidance.

B13) May aliens legally in the United States buy firearms?[Back]

An alien legally in the U.S. may acquire firearms if he has a State of residence. An alien has a State of residence only if he is residing in that State and has resided in a State continuously for at least 90 days prior to the purchase. An alien acquiring firearms from a licensee is required to prove both his identity, by presenting a government-issued photo identification, and his residency with substantiating documentation showing that he has resided in the State continuously for the 90-day period prior to the purchase. Examples of qualifying documentation to prove residency include: utility bills, lease agreements, credit card statements, and pay stubs from the purchaser’s place of employment, if such documents include residential addresses.

See also Item 5, “Sales to Aliens in the United States,” in the General Information section of this publication.

[18 U.S.C. 921, 922(b)(3), (d) and (g), 27 CFR 478.11 and 478.99(a)]



The Green Card does NOT count as Government issued ID for this purpose as it does not have your address on it.

EVERY 4473 form requires proof of continuous 90 day residence by the GC holder each time every time, and it can only be proved by items such as a utility, credit card bill etc.

And how do I know....'Cause I am green card holder.....

I would suggest you read and understand stuff before spouting on what you plainly know little to nothing of.

 

[NavyLCDR]

+1 everallm, you rock!

 

[Fosbery]

Ok, looks like the laws NavyLT quotes do indeed make it technically impossible to buy a gun. But I could still be given one, so far as I can tell, and open carry legally in a state like New Hampshire, or even concealed in one like Vermont. Whether it would cause me no end of hassle, as you say, well, it very well might. But so far as I can tell, it is technically, legally possible for a foreigner to open carry on a tourist visa.

Also, it seems like there's a mismatch in the laws. To me, it reads like the exemption I quoted is an earlier law and when the requirement for FFLs to know state residency was introduced they forgot to add an exemption for that.

One final thing is, consider what would happen if you needed to defend yourself in that situation, do you have the training required to deal with the situation without lethal force, or are you prepared for the consequences should you actually use the firearm you have? Remember that you have limited constitutional rights, and not everywhere will view you acting in self defense as appropriate given the hoops you jumped through to be armed.

I was a pistol shooter for years before the handgun ban in England, and served in the army where we did a little pistol shooting. I also travel to Switzerland every so often to shoot my pistols there (when the ban came, I had them shipped there for storage rather than turn them in to be destroyed).

Oh....now there's an idea! I could bring in a handgun that I legally own in Switzerland, for hunting - say, my Colt Delta Elite or Glock 20 - suitable for deer hunting I should think? I think I read the provisions for that (bringing in a gun for sporting purposes) somewhere, will look them up. Then once I'm there, in a state like Vermont, there's no law against me carrying that gun in a holster down the sidewalk or into the grocery store?

 

[bonza]

Back in 1983, while still an Australian citizen, I came to the U.S. on holiday to compete in a IHMSA competition. Back then, & things have most likely changed, I didn't have any permits to bring the guns into the country, just showed up at LAX & told them what I was here for. The shoot was in Connecticut, about four weeks into my seven week stay, & I flew & drove thousands of miles over most of the country in that time without any problems at all. The only real worry we had was when we found ourselves accidentally in Mexico with a trunk full of guns.....but I digress!
None of my travels, at that time, involved any concealed or open carry, though the thought did cross my mind on occasion, but I can't help but feel you'd be opening yourself up for problems. Even where legal to open carry few people, including LEOs, are aware that it is so & it's not uncommon for folks to be hassled about it. Now, add in the fact that you'd be here on a Tourist Visa with only a layman's opinion of what the law entails (along with a wealth of free internet legal advise) I think you'd soon be looking at a quick trip back home again with a request not to return. Actually that is my main point, do you want to risk becoming a persona-non-grata with the U.S. Government for the novelty of carrying a handgun around for a couple of weeks? That would most certainly have a negative influence on any future visa or immigration applications. Give it some more thought my friend.

 

[TAB]

Oh....now there's an idea! I could bring in a handgun that I legally own in Switzerland, for hunting

its actually easier to come here and legally buy guns, then it is to import them.

Lets just say that you could... diffrent states have diffrent laws about what you can and can use for hunting. Some its as simple as a center fire hand gun. Others its a center fire hand gun with XXXX power, XXXX barrel lenght, of XXX bore, but only during hand gun season, and only in region XXX.

 

[Dark Skies]

As Fossbery seems determined to find a way to circumnavigate US law in order to live the gunfighter dream ...

Would a Colt Delta Elite or Glock 20 be considered the right tool for the job for deer hunting? In the UK there are very specific laws in place for the humane despatch of game requiring the use of the correct calibre and type of ammunition so quarry doesn't suffer needlessly. Surely the US has similar requirements?

I can see a US cop taking one look at those semi-auto pistols, hearing the British accent, weighing up the tricks and turns used to tenuously possess them as a guest of the US and finally getting wound up at the suggestion that these were intended for hunting purposes rather than swaggering down the street armed. Cops don't like having their intelligence insulted. I know. I was one. This all sounds like a bad train crash waiting to happen.

 

[kanook]

instead of coming across the pond the pond to open carry, why not stand up for your rights at home and do it there. maybe you could start a movement or something. when we carry concealed here we do it in a manner so that it goes unnoticed. why not do it at home and get a bigger rush knowing that the risk your taking is greater

 

[Dark Skies]

Actually carrying concealed is the preferred manner here (for rifles) when going to and from shooting venues. It is offense NOT to have your firearms concealed in a gunbag from public view. Back in the day when we could own and shoot pistols I regularly carried my pistol in a concealed shoulder holster - because I rode a motorcycle to my club and didn't want a bag flapping around my neck. Ammo kept in the cargo pocket of my leather jacket. I was never stopped by a cop but had I been I'd have been perfectly within my rights - providing I was going to or returning from a shooting venue.

 

[Art Eatman]

Let's put this one to bed. Fosbery's talking about a tourist-visa visit, not Green Card residency, for one thing.

BATFE regs are stickied at the top of the Legal Forum page. State laws can be found via Google, and they vary all over the place about how anything is carried by anybody.

As far as bringing any gun to the US, it seems to me that questioning folks at a US embassy/consulate would be the best starting point. That's part of their job.

Enuf.