Toy gun muzzle control--ridiculous?

[voilsb]

Teach him about muzzle control. Teach it as such: do not point a gun at something you are not willing to shoot with it.

Enforce it on guns firing real projectiles (nerf, water, bb, and real guns).

Teach him the difference between toy guns and real.

Let him play.



Edited to add: Be sure to teach him not to point any gun, toy or real, at strangers or people he's not playing with. And yes, it's okay to shoot your sister and her friends with a squirt gun when she has a slumber party.

 

[jefnvk]

If the kid knows the difference between a real gun and a toy, no big deal.

The biggest problem I have is kids playing paintball. Most have never shot a real gun in their life, and the 4 rules seem to not apply to them. I don;t know how many times I have been swept by a live, hot weapon in the safe zone (where the safety gear is not needed). Common responses are 'Safety's on' (95% of the time it isn't, and thats still not a good excuse) or 'It's just a paintball gun' (sorry, if that goes off in my face from 5 feet, you're gonna get your a** kicked when I recover)

 

[Chris Rhines]

This here is the reason that I dislike toy guns. They really tend to ingrain bad habits. Much better, I think, to introduce your kids to real guns as early as possible, along with the rules of safe gun handling.

Much more fun than toy guns, anyhow.

- Chris

 

[Chuck Jennings]

I guess one thing that should be considered is how the parents feel about others correcting their children.

I have been in a similar situation when a nephew of mine was aiming a real flintlock pistol at people at the dinner table. My wife and I both were horrified and said "please don't do that. That is unsafe." We were then told to not worry, because there is no BP in their house. They were very annoyed that we would correct their little darling. :banghead:

 

[TechBrute]

I voted for the "it's a toy" selection above because it's the closest to what I think.

First, I didn't know you could still buy toy guns.

Second, I don't agree with teaching the kid to treat a toy as the real thing, because he will treat the real thing like a toy. I grew up with toy guns and had no doubts that they were harmless toys. When I handled my first real gun, I knew it was a big deal and that it wasn't a toy.

If you use toy guns as "trainers" then you are training them to use guns as toys. What are they going to do with the toy gun if they are to treat it like a real on? Field strip it, clean it, reassemble it, then have their picture taken with it while their finger is straight?

You need to distinguish between what's a toy and what's not, or the kid won't.

Having said all that, it would still bug the living crap out of me that the kid was acting that way. I don't have a problem with a kid playing soldier and low crawling across the living room, using people across the room as "bad guys", etc. What bothers me is a kid that would hold a gun to your head and say bang.

 

[Bwana John]

This here is the reason that I dislike toy guns. They really tend to ingrain bad habits. Much better, I think, to introduce your kids to real guns as early as possible, along with the rules of safe gun handling.

I agree. Take him shooting, start with a 1 gallon milk jug full of water @ 25 yards, tell him the body is 90% water and shoot it with a 30-06 with him standing next to you with no hearing protection. We are talkin teaching RESPECT!!!

It worked for me.

I also dont forget my muffs very often.

 

[mustanger98]

a 1 gallon milk jug full of water @ 25 yards, tell him the body is 90% water and shoot it with a 30-06 with him standing next to you with no hearing protection. We are talkin teaching RESPECT!!!

Reminds me of me and my Daddy out behind the barn. No hearing protection. I guess I was 7 or 8. I never looked at that 742 Remington the same after that. I've also heard it takes a lot of the mystic air out from around firearms.

BB gun- the state of Florida legally considers BB guns to be firearms. The reason is there have been incidents where BBs have ricochetted back and killed the shooter. This was covered when I took the Georgia hunter safety course. Also, I grew up with a Red Ryder which I still have. One day I got this notion I was going to see the reaction between a BB and window glass from about 35-40'. The BB, after spiderwebbing the glass, bounced straight back and caught me on the end of the collarbone right there at my neck. It didn't penetrate, but it opened my eyes to what could have happened and I never tried anything like that again. Anytime I run into people looking at airguns for their kids, I always tell that story just so they'll know not to try that sort of thing and to let them know why they need to wear shooting/safety glasses.

As for toys, if anything I'd look at it as a training opportunity for the kid- he could be taught trigger control and muzzle control in a context of playing commandoes or something. He won't know he's being trained and he'll be enjoying it. Put it into a fun version of "this is how the adults do it." But do use the demonstration of the '06 on the water jug early on. It'll give him a serious incentive not to goof up. But there's also matters of right and wrong that need to be taught too.

 

[DelayedReaction]

I plan on emphasizing the need for the four rules at an early age with my kids, but I also want them to have fun. To accomodate that I'm going to make sure they know the difference between a toy (bright cheerful plastic) gun and a real gun. I won't let them have any toy guns that look real, and will probably get them a BB or a paintball gun at an early age to teach them gun safety. One of the things I wish my parents had done was teach me gun safety early, but our family doesn't own any firearms and so I've just recently gotten into it.

So yeah. I would've told the kid not to point it at me, and explained to him how to treat real guns a certain way, and then let him be a kid for awhile longer.

 

[CAS700850]

NO offense intended, but I didn't vote in your poll, simply because I don't know which I believe. A part of me, that spent many a summer playing war, cops and robbers, etc. pointing a variety of toy guns at other kids wants to say "He's a kid. Let it go." BUt, being a firearm owner, and someone who has seen too damn many accidents with real guns wants to encourage you to teach when you can.

I guess I'll fall in line with earlier responders who advised to teach a difference between real and toy guns, and make a real point to differentiate between the handling of each. Why? Looking back, I realize my first gun safety lesson was at age 9, at Cub Scout camp, when a retired Marine D.I. blew a watermelon to bits with a .45 and a rifle of some kind (can't recall teh gun, but very distinctly recall the watermelon vaporizing), and the lesson stuck through the last 27 years. However, when i got home, the wargames went on as before. I imagine if I could be taught the difference, maybe this young man can as well. good luck. Your efforts are worthwhile.

 

[musher]

Well, I've had this discussion with my wife and my sister and her husband.

Where I landed is this:

I think kids are way more complicated than we give them credit for. Yeah, they do outrageously stupid things, but I do think that they can manage multiple rule-sets just fine. Just watch your kid deal with mom vs dad.

I think that toys are toys. They're meant to be played with and kids know this. I don't think it's very productive to pretend to treat a toy with the same rule set that you would use for the real thing (knife, gun, whatever). Kids understand this as well. The best example I can come up with came from my wife. Back before we got my son any toy guns, he was picking up sticks and pretending they were guns. One day he was fooling around in the yard with a 'pistol' shaped stick. He reversed the stick to examine the 'muzzle' and my wife jumped on him

"THOMAS! Don't EVER point a gun at yourself, it's really dangerous"

He just looked at her for a moment, then said 'Mom, its just a stick'

Sure, he'd been pretending it was a gun, but he knew that it wasn't. Same goes with the more 'realistic' toys.

When the real guns come out for my son, they won't have anything to do with the toy guns he plays with now. I don't think they're the same thing at all. No need to treat them as if they were in my opinion.

 

[Stevie-Ray]

If you enforce muzzle control on him when using toy guns, he's gonna be loosing a lot playing cowboys and indians.
Better solution, teach him the difference between toy guns and real guns.

Bingo. That's what I would say. The toy guns are supposed to be pointed at people. That's the whole idea. And the wonderful times I had when I was a kid were not taken away by some spoilsport saying, "NEVER POINT THOSE AT PEOPLE!" Give him some credit also, that he will learn to differentiate between pure pretend toys and the more dangerous "toys" that come along, if there is such a thing in this politically correct society. Remember popguns? I'm sure everyone my age will remember the first time they stuck the barrel on the ground to cock the lever action, then pulled the trigger and unintentionally blasted a clod of dirt out the muzzle. This was the first toy gun I decided not to point at people, ON MY OWN. There were others, the most memorable being my Wham-o Sonic Blaster, a bazooka type piece that was all the noise I ever needed for the 4th of July or New Year's Eve for years. But the blast of air this monster produced, especially at higher levels, was inherently dangerous, especially if anything accumulated in the barrel. Of course the bean guns, BB guns, (You'll shoot your eye out!), and the 5mm pellet rifle I still own were NEVER pointed at anything I wasn't intending to destroy. Children usually realize the differences in weight, appearance, etc. especially when they've been taught about it. I was lucky to have a dad that owned a real handgun. He taught us early. But our general upbringing had us knowing what not to point at people even before that.

 

[larryw]

My son (9) lost most interest in toy guns when he started shooting real ones.

But he still plays with toy guns, and it's a blast to see him and his best buddy working as a team tracking down the neighbor kids during super soaker battles. Proper gun handling is taken seriously ("Dude, watch what you're doing, you just swept me!" "Dude, get your finger off the trigger" "Dude, ...").

Teach the kids right and the Rules become part of the play. Teach them right and they know the difference between toy and real. Teach them right and they'll be fine when you're not around to supervise.

 

[Art Eatman]

When I was a kid, we had cap-pistols and water-pistols. Didn't have the photon-laser stuff.

Anyhow, a lot of us also had BB guns. Some of us were allowed to shoot .22 rifles.

Okay: I have no idea how young I was when I first was given a cap-pistol and some rolls of caps. Maybe five or six. I got my first BB gun when I was 7. I was turned loose on my grandfather's farm with his .22 at around age 8 or so, mostly becauxe he wanted me out from under his feet.

On any one day I might play Cowboys&Indians with my friends, popping away with cap pistols. Later I might "hunt" around the yard with my Daisy Red Ryder. In the late afternoon I might hide out by the water trough behind the barn, waiting to shoot a crow.

In other words, I and my friends, around ages seven and eight, already knew the difference between "toys" and "real guns".

Teach the difference early on...

Art

 

[psyopspec]

I voted option 4, that it is just a toy. Thinking otherwise plays in the favor of the people who suspended a school child for pointing his finger like a gun at a teacher. Toys are toys and guns are guns; teach the difference.

For those that say it's only ok to point it at people if engaged in an actual game, I have to guess that this would confuse the crap out of the child, that sometimes it's ok and sometimes it's not. It's a little more clear-cut to point out the differences in physical characteristics, and rules in handling, a toy gun vs. a real firearm.

However, just my .02 and I'm acting on my memories as a child rather than my experience raising them (since I have none). My opinion's worth what you paid for it.

 

[DragonFire]

I lean towards "it's a toy" but with some disclaimers, that have mostly been said already.

A toy is a toy, real guns are real guns. A child old enough to play with toy guns should be taught to know the difference. A BB gun isn't a toy, a paint gun isn't a toy. Do you correct the kid's driving when he's playing with his toy cars?

Following gun safety with a toy gun not only takes the fun out of playing and robs the kid from developing his imagination by pretending, but total blurs the distinction. You've changed the rules from being ones necessary because of saftey, to rules "because you say so". At a certain age, the kid will realize that his toy gun can't really shoot so your rule to never point it at someone has no logical reason behind it. He'll start to ignore rules that don't make sense to him.

The real reason behind not pointing even a toy gun at point blank range at someone else's head and yelling 'bang' has nothing to do with gun safety. That's totally unacceptable behavior even in the land of make-believe and should be stopped immediately. If it happens frequently, maybe the kid should see some counseling to see what's behind all this anger.

 

[TonyB]

As long as the kid knows the difference between a toy gun and a real gun,I have no problem with"playing"...besides,how can you kill the "nazi's,VC or Indians" if you don't point the gun at them???

 

[jojo]

If he were a bit younger, say 5 or 6, I would say thats it a bit much. Being that he's 10, the age my son got his first "real" gun, a Ruger 10/22, I'd have to say that he is old enough to learn proper weapon handling.

jojo

 

[bamawrx]

LarryW hit the nail on the head. Safety rules can become a very fun and most important part of play. IF they follow safety rules while at play, then they are way ahead of the game come real gun time. It is a common thing for me to give a "finger off trigger" command to kids as they run through the yard. They are having fun and the safety rules are part of it. I just wish it was easier to get good toy guns. I make my own from wood and the kids love them. I allow them to point the toys at people as long as they are pretend threats.

Also, I have found that teaching safety rules start with play not real guns. Then you move to BB guns, then .22 colibri, .22 lr's, and so on. My boy is almost 9 and I cut him loose with .22 colibri's or .22lr with supervision. I watch the activity and determine if the decisions are good. I made a correction the other day about backstops, which is good to learn with colibri's. Once he progresses to full powered rounds he will be ready. It all started with play.

 

[Legionnaire]

With my kids and their friends, I've taken the tack that it's okay to point toy guns at one another ... but it's NEVER okay to point even a toy gun at someone who is not involved in the game!

I think that has helped them learn not only safe muzzle control, but also to "be sure of your target and what is beyond."

The kids I've talked with seem to appreciate the concern I've raised, and appreciate the compromise with regard to the game.

So basic rule is, if someone isn't involved in the game, it's your job to make sure the muzzle never covers him or her.

 

[JohnKSa]

Ok, I feel like I wasn't TOTALLY off base but I think I'm going to be more laid back about it in the future.

 

[mikeb3185]

yes and no

when i was younger my brother and i played army and cops and robbers and pointed and shot toy guns at each other, but when bb guns and later real guns came into play, playtime was over. as long as he understands the difference bettween his toys and a weapon capable of shooting a projectile, i dont see any harm it.

 

[Tom Servo]

Man, when I was ten, I was already handling real guns. I don't remember having toy guns before that, and afterward, I didn't see the point. I do remember seeing some other kids running around with a pellet gun, waving the muzzle around randomly, and I thought, "what idiots."

I had an odd upbringing

Still, if it was my kid, he'd be growing up in a house with real guns, which I'd be teaching him to handle someday. It'd be best for me to teach him early on that toy guns are just analogues for real guns, and real guns can do terrible things if handled improperly.

 

[confinedbythecurtain]

I think the thing you said about the BB gun was a good start. If the kid wants to ever have a actual gun (BB or otherwise), he should learn the rules now. If he loves guns, even a toy, chances are he will be interested in guns in the future. Preparing him now will enable him to use good judgement if he is exposed to guns somewhere else.

 

[ScorpioVI]

A buddy of mine AIMed me once while I was at work, the conversation went something like this:



Buddy: Dude! I am so proud of my kids today!
Me: What? What happened?
Buddy: The teacher at school was handing out squirts guns and my kids wouldn't touch them.




Now bear in mind that my buddy is another gunnie. Owns guns, spends plenty of time at the range, plays airsoft, etc. Now my initial reaction was, "cool, those kids are disciplined". But when I thought about it further, it saddened me that kids these days can't even enjoy the simple pleasure of shooting each other with squirt guns.

When I was growing up I had plenty of toy guns. One of my earliest recollections involved an Uzi squirt-gun, lighter fluid, matches, candles, and a heavy dose of spanking from Mom for giving her lovely bougainevilleas the flamethrower treatment. Then I graduated to me and my friends shooting at each other with bottle-cap guns, then on to BB guns, then airsoft/paintball.

Now I don't have kids. But if/when I do, I'm going to do my utmost to provide them with childhood similar to mine. That includes playing with toy guns, the only difference is I will make sure they know the difference between pointing guns at combatants (gun games) and pointing guns at "innocent" people. And the difference between real guns and toy guns.

 

[tommytrauma]

Tangential story;

When I first started dating my now wife, her 2 girls were 5 and 3. Wife wasn't into guns before I came in the scene, but was a level headed, practical woman. She was also having problems with a stalker, and wanted a gun available.

I taught her how to shoot, and we discussed exactly when to shoot. Since the girls weren't in to toy guns anyway, wife didn't have any in the house. Oldest child, Jamie, sat in on some of the talks about gun safety and such. She was able to recite the 4 safety rules without problem.

So later that year, we go over to her families for Christmas dinner. They had a big toy box for all the grandkids, and Jamie found a toy gun. She immediatly points it at her mom, and yells "BANG". Mom looks at her and says, "now Jamie, what's the rule?" With downcast eyes, Jamie says " 2 to the chest, one to the head. Keep shooting until they're down." Mom starts saying "no, no, the other rule!" but the damage was done. Holy crap. I thought Grandma was going to have a stroke. I almost pissed myself trying not to laugh.