Tracking...................clays

[9mmMike]

I was up a Lehigh again on Monday shooting Sporting Clays with my buddy and his son who is on leave (doing recruiting) from the Marines at the moment.
I was having a good day until I had two different guys offer me instruction.
Their delivery was night and day.
The first one just started telling me what I was doing wrong. I had just missed my first clay, number 25 on the course (I know because I was shooting for a perfect line of x's and it was the last box on the card!).
This was a fast moving right-to-left rabbit and I usually do pretty good on them.
My normal procedure is to do a practice sweep from the house, along the expected path. I set my feet/stance at the point where I expect to pull the trigger and then twist towards the house, basically unwinding as I follow the clay to it's planned point of destruction (the PPOD ) . This has been effective for me as I can see the rabbit coming out of the house and track it as it races along the ground.
This "helpful" gentleman suggested that I should be starting with my gun about midway so I do not need to swing the barrel so far. My problem with this method is that the rabbit can pass me as I start that long barrel moving.
I ignored the guy.
However, not three stations later I had another guy tell the same thing. This time the clays were airborne but were fast crossers, left-to-right. His approach to teaching was far better as he asked me if he could offer a suggestion first. Also, I had seen him shoot and he was pretty good so I was less annoyed. In fact, I was pleased to speak with him. I hit them all but felt awkward with the different style. I felt pressured to pick up the clay in time and tempted to lift my head to find it.
Weird that the two men's suggestions were nigh identical and yet one was a pest while the other a good coach, huh?
Anyway, I'd like some opinions on how y'all shoot the fast moving crossers.
I shot an 86/100 that day which is my current best.
Thanks,
Mike

 

[Freddymac]

I don't have that much experience with clays, but...

I had a similar experience at the driving range (swinging a golf club), where someone who could drive the ball much better than I showed me the “more correct” way to hit the ball. It defiantly felt strange, and was, at times, down right uncomfortable, but I was hitting the ball farther and straighter. I guess what I’m trying to say is that when some one who knows more than you, and/or can do it better than you, gives you a few pointers, you should probably do it, even if it is uncomfortable at first, because it will probably make you better in the long run.

 

[exar]

Last time I shot clays from left to right airborne, I got 89/100. Good enough for a second place trophy I usually wait until the target is between 11 and 12 o'clock to begin my tracking. I do what feels comfortable and gets me the results that i'm looking for.

 

[kudu]

When I shoot skeet targets I use a sustained lead type of swing with a mounted gun, on a clays course I usually shoot the more traditional dropped gun and shoot pass-through on the targets. When the gun hits my shoulder I am usually pulling the trigger and looking for the second bird if there are doubles, which in sporting there generally are. To me gun speed is important, my gun is moving fast with the target when it hits my shoulder. If I try to track or ride the clay then I start missing birds.

 

[Kingcreek]

I shoot all moving targets with a lowered gun, no pre-mount. I visualize where I want to break it and stand neutral to that point. I tend to stand a little more weight forward than most and relaxed for a little more flexibility at the waist and hips. Head up with both eyes open, gun comes to shoulder as the barrel passes the target, trigger slapped when the gunbutt hits the right spot in the shoulder. Works best and feels right when the movement is "liquid". (Does that make sense?) It allows for some split second adjustments if shooting clays in wind gusts, doves, or other game that don't follow simple flight patterns.
If I shot skeet for money, I might shoot sustained lead per Kudu but all my shooting is either at game or in practice for game- therefore pass-thru rules. Often when I shoot skeet, I am calling for the birds as I'm pushing the #2 shell into the mag. Also, some nights I shoot doubles only, or pair up with somebody else who wants to shoot only uncalled targets. and BTW, I was surprized at how much my shooting improved or atleast seemed easier when I got back into martial arts. increased flexibility and balance, I suppose.
I've been shooting for 40 years and I learned to shoot while hunting with my family, mainly older cousins. Game was plentiful but competition was fierce. I learned I had to shoot quick or watch somebody else drop the birds. Dad was a fan of surprise targets for practice. Blue-rocks from a hand trap, snow balls, hedge apples, usually from behind or when you were loading or looking around, etc. He said you had to learn to shoot "instinctive"- whatever that is. All I know is, it works for me.
A good coach can be a great help but you still gotta find your own groove.

 

[BozemanMT]

an 86/100????????
and he's deigning to give you tips?
Either your course is really easy or you are doing just fine.
tell him to be quiet and look at his 2nd place trophy.

 

[PJR]

I was having a good day until I had two different guys offer me instruction.

That was your first mistake.

There is more incorrect and misleading information doled out by self-appointed clays instructors who think they are "helping" by offering comments. Ignore them. Particularly ignore anyone who tells you that you are doing it wrong. There is more than one way to break a target.

Your "swing through" method is one of the three main approaches I take to a target. The barrel comes from behind and the trigger is pulled just as the barrels pass the target. Your "lead" is built into your swing velocity and you see little if any lead. Very good for short window, medium range crossing and quartering away targets. I shoot rabbit targets swing through. A hint on rabbits is to start lower on the targets. An instructor once told me to "dig a trench under the rabbits feet," with your barrels.

The sustained lead method is where you insert your gun barrel ahead of the target and and pull the trigger. You see lots of lead depending on the target speed and distance. Sustained lead is more common in skeet while swing through is more of a trap shot because you are always coming from behind the target. I find sustained leads require more practice and I spend time on the skeet field honing this skill.

There is also "pull away." You track the bird with your barrel and gradually pull away in front of it, increasing your lead, until your computer tells you it's time to shoot. This really works on very long, high tower shots where you have lots of time to see the bird.

There are many methods and theories in clay target shooting. All of them work for someone but not for everyone. My best advice is to find an instructor, learn this method and then ignore everyone else. Once you have system that works for you keep at it and your scores will increase.

 

[redneck2]

I'm not a shotgun expert, nor did I stay at the Holiday Inn Express last night..

but, I've seen a few guys shoot shotguns. Problem I see with sustained lead is that you'll quit swinging just as you pull the trigger and shoot behind

Best shotgun shot I've seen is a hillbilly from Southern IL. He just doesn't miss. Absolutely swears he doesn't lead anything, just shoots at it. What he doesn't understand is that he swings thru and leads that way. If you think about your shot, you'll most probably miss.

What I've personally found most helpful on the clays range is for another shooter to tell me if I've shot above, behind, etc. IMO, you'll very rarely shoot too far forward. Typically you (OK, me) either stops the swing or lifts your head and shoots over (at least on crossing type shots). HTH

 

[scooterthegreat]

Your "swing through" method is one of the three main approaches I take to a target. The barrel comes from behind and the trigger is pulled just as the barrels pass the target. Your "lead" is built into your swing velocity and you see little if any lead. Very good for short window, medium range crossing and quartering away targets.

That is a great and easy way to get started. It's what we teach in our course. So much less thinking for the newbies and those who are "old hat" as well.

A lot of the teaching is in the presentation. We don't just say: "You're ahead, behind, over, under, or you stopped the barrel (no follow through)" Most of the time from where we stand, we can tell where they are shooting. But we simply ask them what they saw when they pulled the trigger and then say swing faster, swing slower, start with your gun a bit higher or lower. The results are amazing!!

 

[Dave McCracken]

Offering an adult,even beginners, help is fraught with peril and needs diplomacy and tact up the wazoo.

I do so only after asking if the person would LIKE some advice. If they assent, then I lead into things with something like "Here's how I shoot that".

What I do not do is point out flaws. Few folks can take that approach.

Example....

"On those crossing rabbits I choke up a bit, use 7 1/2s and go for 6 o'clock on the target. Rabbits looks faster than they are and slow down every time they touch the ground. Shooting low puts the shot where it can bounce up off the ground and break the clay...

 

[redneck2]

Dave...probably (actually) very good advice

I was at the clays range, watching a group in which one guy was an absolute newbie. Maybe the first time he'd ever used a shotgun. Man, it was painful to watch. Gun side arm folded down agains his side and shoulder dropped so he was trying to drop his face to the gun. Missing by 5' on a straightaway bird on the first station.

The "friends" he was with were verbally abusing him for missing every shot. He was getting frustrated. I kinda butted in and asked if he'd like a little help. He was exceptionally grateful and ended up breaking some birds and the razzing stopped.

Tough sometimes to know when to help and when to shut up. I guess a simple question if they'd like suggestions goes a long way.

 

[Dave McCracken]

Kudoes, Red. Sometimes the right thing isn't easy to figure out. You did fine this time.

He needs better shooting partners....

 

[9mmMike]

Thanks everyone. As always, good advice all around.

I went up for steak night (can you beat shooting after work then getting a steak made to order with all the fixin's? I think not!) tonight and reverted to my old "bad-habit" ways. Shot an 87/100 and my shooting buddy shot an 81/100, his first ever in the 80's.

We are only shooting the "B" stations though and not the "A" stations that are used in the tourny's. I told him if he shoots another 80%, we're "movin' up".

My 86/100 on Monday included a couple A's since we usually shoot what looks interesting and we were in the mood for some springing teals and flying bunnies.

Anyway, before I unlearn what I am doing now, I'll need more convincing that I'm doing it wrong. In the mean time, I am having just too much fun.

Thanks again,

Miike

PS. I am so glad that I stuck with this '55 Wingmaster. I had a tough time getting it to work for me without beating me up but it's a dream now and shoots like a laser. Maybe a forcing cone and bradley bead in the future but then again, maybe not.

 

[Dave McCracken]

Mike, if it's working for you, leave it be. Do not change a thing...

 

[mswestfall]

I suggest that you trust your instincts. That being said, I've learned a thing or two from someone that had some pretty unorthodox advice.

The average person takes three weeks for the mussel memory to overcome the brains desire to "correct" the movement. Hence a new swing may take up to three weeks to get embedded in the mind. (Three weeks is an average based on the person and how often it is practiced.)

It sounds to me like you are on the right track.