Trailboss alternatives

[halfmoonclip]

Been feeding .45 Colt with Trailboss for some time, at modest velocities, and am entirely satisfied. Problem being, there seems to be no new Trailboss.
I've been thinking of trying some of the blackpowder alternatives, and have some questions.
-Are there any substitutes that are not corrosive (that is to say, hydroscopic), avoiding immediate cleanup after shooting?
-Are there any BP substitutes that can be used in a Dillon powder dispenser?
On this last, I've loaded actual BP, but used a funnel and powder dipper (made from a .45 ACP case). It worked, but was slow slogging. Those BP loads are still sitting in the locker.
So, what I want is the entertainment of shooting black powder, but with the convenience of loading/shooting smokeless?
It seems there should be a market for such.
Just thinking out loud here.
Ideas?
Moon

 

[Cheesemaker]

I have a bit of Trailboss left, never did have enough to be considered a devout user, but I did like it. Today, most of my 45 Colt is driven by Unique. Works well and have no issues.

I cannot comment on the BP alternatives.

 

[.38 Special]

I'm not aware of any perfect replacement for Trail Boss, and I've put a lot of thought into it. Everything else either leaves a whole bunch of empty case, or gives more velocity than needed.

I'm not a fan of BP subs. As far as I can tell, none of them do anything that the real thing can't, except for be available at the local sporting goods store. They aren't any cleaner, they aren't non-corrosive (some of them may actually be more corrosive), and they aren't any safer.

In the op's shoes, I'd either work up a smokeless load with something like Unique, 231, etc., or buy a Lyman blackpowder measure. I've done both, and find that I enjoy loading and shooting with black more than with smokeless, so you just never know.

 

[AJC1]

If you shoot a lot of 45c I would pick up an 8 of promo. It's a cheap red dot and will give better case fill than most.

 

[45 long]

I have a very limited supply of Trail Boss left, so I've been using Universal. 6.7-7 grains pushing a MBC 200gr rnfp.
For a BP sub you might want to try Triple 7. Not very corrosive, so you don't have to run home & clean your revolver right away.

 

[N555]

I switched to CBI for clean burning, lower density charges.
I like using it in hot 38spl, 6.5gr fills the case about 2/3. In 45acp 6.5gr just about makes a compressed load under a 230gr bullet and it's cheap.

 

[Bill M.]

Not exactly a substitute. But...I switched from Trail Boss to Tightgroup for coated and plated bullets. I changed my reloading technique to deal with the small charges and have been pretty happy with the results. I get maybe better accuracy with some loads. Certainly as good. I am a stationary shooter who shoots with the gun level. For cowboy shooting I got no ideas.

 

[Mountainman2]

I use HP38-231 and it works good for me but there isn’t much in the case

 

[jmorris]

I’ve got quite a bit of trailboss because I have always found other loads I prefer. I’m pretty sure you can’t find a replacement that is as bulky (% case fill) but there are a number around It’s burn rate.

 

[PapaG]

There is no sub for Trailboss. The only BP sub that is only mildly corrosive is Blackhorn209 and you might as well be shooting gold dust for the cost.
I mainly use Unique in the 45 Colt. Just scan the charged cases with a flashlight before putting in the bullet.

 

[Charlie98]

It seems there should be a market for such.

There certainly is... but the manufacturers are busy cranking out the other profitable powders that don't cost so much to produce, and/or don't create expensive to dispose of byproducts. It is what it is.

I would agree with the others... Unique is my primary .45 Colt pistol powder, but I would use RedDot or it's kissing cousin Promo if I didn't have Unique. No, none of those have the case fill TrailBoss does... nothing does... but with sound reloading techniques you would be fine. None of them are corrosive, position sensitive, or particularly dirty in the midrange and up of their respective load data.

 

[shanep0017]

I emailed Hodgdon cause I needed data for a specific bullet that I didn't have data on hand for. While talking to the rep I asked what they would recommend for low recoil loads, told him I wanted to try Trail Boss but haven't been able to find it. The rep did tell me they are doing a run of Trail Boss some time next year but he recommended that I use Autocomp in the meantime.
I did some research and from what I can tell Autocomp doesn't do anything that HS6 isn't already doing for me so I decided to skip the Autocomp.
My advice, I would pick a powder with a similar burn rate and not worry about case fill. Inspect your cases before seating and I'm sure you'll be able to tell if you have a double charge. If you're worried about powder position there are fillers you can use to keep the powder at the bottom of the case. I haven't tried it myself but I'm sure someone has some advice on that one.

 

[PapaG]

I emailed Hodgdon cause I needed data for a specific bullet that I didn't have data on hand for. While talking to the rep I asked what they would recommend for low recoil loads, told him I wanted to try Trail Boss but haven't been able to find it. The rep did tell me they are doing a run of Trail Boss some time next year but he recommended that I use Autocomp in the meantime.
I did some research and from what I can tell Autocomp doesn't do anything that HS6 isn't already doing for me so I decided to skip the Autocomp.
My advice, I would pick a powder with a similar burn rate and not worry about case fill. Inspect your cases before seating and I'm sure you'll be able to tell if you have a double charge. If you're worried about powder position there are fillers you can use to keep the powder at the bottom of the case. I haven't tried it myself but I'm sure someone has some advice on that one.

I don’t like fillers except for cast bullet rifle loads with position sensitive powder and which will not be transported excessively. Examples of bore damage are fairly common. I did use cornmeal on top of black powder in revolvers but it was compressed and couldn’t move.

 

[shanep0017]

I don’t like fillers except for cast bullet rifle loads with position sensitive powder and which will not be transported excessively. Examples of bore damage are fairly common. I did use cornmeal on top of black powder in revolvers but it was compressed and couldn’t move.

Yeah I've never done it myself, I just figured if position was a reason for using trail boss it might be something to consider. Overall I'd look for a powder with a similar burn rate and call it good. 1

 

[halfmoonclip]

None of them are corrosive, position sensitive, or particularly dirty in the midrange and up of their respective load data.

This is the turd in the punch bowl. Was using Unique, and found a 75'sec difference between no particular position, and raising the muzzle between shots.
I do have a nice #5 load that is consistent (though not checked for position) as well.
Don't recall how much of the case was filled, but Trail Boss had that figured out.
I'm feeding everything from a Schofield to a 92 & 73 carbine. The weakest is the Schofield, but the lightest #5 load should be okay.
Have to keep an eye open for Trail Boss, and maybe another pound of #5.
BTW, Unique was always a PITA. Love the burn rate, but the large flakes always gave metering trouble, in a Lyman or Dillon measure. All night, you were chasing weight, adjusting the measure. The finer grained #5 is much better in that regard.
Thanks,
Moon

 

[Roverguy]

I’d say go ahead and use BP subs. I prefer ye olde black powder itself, but it’s not as readily available as the subs. Clean up is the same. Hot water. A little dish soap. Wash it all up and wipe I to all down with Ballistol. Not onerous.

 

[Charlie98]

BTW, Unique was always a PITA. Love the burn rate, but the large flakes always gave metering trouble, in a Lyman or Dillon measure.

Sounds like an issue with your measure...

I've been loading Unique for about 35 years, never had problems with metering or issues with case position. It is not a benchrest powder, it's just a really good and versatile pistol powder. No, it does not measure as precisely as some other powders, but I've never found the variations in charge weight to be an issue at the target, velocity numbers aside.

but Trail Boss had that figured out.

Look... I got it. TrailBoss is a great powder for some folks, given it's purpose. Guess what? There isn't any. If what shanep said ever comes to fruition (another run of TrailBoss...) it will be gone in an instant when it hits the shelves, and I'm going to guess you are going to need a fat wallet to pay for it.

 

[Mr_Flintstone]

From IMR (2001): 250 Gr bullet with 17.7 grains of IMR 4227. Not a Trail boss substitute per se, but it does fill about 60% of the case.

 

[anothernewb]

I did see VV N32C (Tin Star) in a LGS not long ago, new manufacture. From what I understand, it's probably as close to TB as anyone can find these days.

 

[halfmoonclip]

I am finding TrailBoss online, but either the shipping is nearly as much as the powder, or the PayPal arrangements, (perhaps trying to dodge the restrictions) are so convoluted to make me throw up my hands. Or just throw up.

Sounds like an issue with your measure...

I've been loading Unique for about 35 years, never had problems with metering or issues with case position.

Due respect, Charlie, but I've been reloading for noticeably longer than that, had the experience with a Lyman (knock twice) measure, or the current, Dillon one. I check weight every 50, and if there has been variation, more often.
There have been variations beyond 0.1 grain with Unique, which is more tolerance than I usually accept. Too, the variation will go up, and then the other way, and then back again. And, as noted, the extreme spread between no particular position and 'muzzle up' is 75'sec; most of my reloads don't have an Extreme Spread that great.
Now it may well be that, at the target, it doesn't matter, and I may end up with Unique.
But Unique does have problems, and I'm trying to avoid those. That is why I'm asking here.

Moon

 

[halfmoonclip]

I don’t like fillers except for cast bullet rifle loads with position sensitive powder and which will not be transported excessively. Examples of bore damage are fairly common. I did use cornmeal on top of black powder in revolvers but it was compressed and couldn’t move

Been down the road with fillers in .45-70 cases 35 years ago; giant PITA, not especially successful. And not remotely transferable to running .45 Colt on a Dillon 550.
Moon

 

[GeoDudeFlorida]

And, as noted, the extreme spread between no particular position and 'muzzle up' is 75'sec

That’s way beyond what I’ve seen with Unique. I think there might be a problem, don’t know what it is, but I see why you want to press the Easy Button and find Trail Boss.
In my super light 200gr WC and Bullseye loads I might get a muzzle-up/down variation of 35-40fps - but those are .44Spl tin can loads.
Vihtavouri Tin Star may be your best bet.

 

[halfmoonclip]

That’s way beyond what I’ve seen with Unique. I think there might be a problem, don’t know what it is, but I see why you want to press the Easy Button and find Trail Boss.

Exactly. The perils of having a Chronograph, and going looking for a problem.
I've been looking for the Vita Vhouri powder, without much luck so far.
May go look at how much of the case #5 fills.
Moon

 

[PapaG]

Sixty years of loading and shooting Unique and I never realized the problems I must have been having. Guess I will stay ignorant and happy.
9mm, 38,357, 44 spec, 45 auto, 45 Colt, cast in 222, 223, 30-30. 30-06,45-70. All were fine.

 

[GeoDudeFlorida]

Exactly. The perils of having a Chronograph, and going looking for a problem.
I've been looking for the Vita Vhouri powder, without much luck so far.
May go look at how much of the case #5 fills.
Moon

YMMV but No.5 in my 5” Ruger is strictly for Hi-Vel loads. It is not very good at lower pressure in the massive case. Silhouette (the powder formerly known as WAP) is better.