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JMusic

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I am trying to look at the odds of an attack and how you should or do counter. How many altercations have you had in your life that didn't get beyond the violent stage? How many have. How many people have you had to shoot? I believe we as trainers are not considering the vast majority of altercations that fall in between and are not training how or what to use to keep it low keyed. I think stick training, canes, lights and brains are secondary in the majority of our thinking. And most importantly how many times has our training made the situation worse?


Jim
 
The odds of an attack are actually quite low, overall.

However, you can do A LOT to make those odds better, or very much worse.

Situational awareness is your first and best weapon. Looking the part of someone who is "aware" is your 2nd best weapon.

Thugs are lazy low life bastards. As such they aren't interested in a fight; they want an easy mark. Walk around with your ear buds in, your ipod blaring, and your eyes on the pavement is just about the same as sticking a "Mug Me Please" sign on your back.

Head up, walk like you mean it, scan and notice your surroundings. 99% of your "problems" will look for an easier target. The other 1% you'll have a better chance of seeing coming so you can prepare for them.
 
Jim,
You and I know from hard learned personal experience that deescalation is the way to go. The people who run the Verbal Judo program make a good living from instructing first responders, police officers and other people who have to deal professionally with situations that have the potential to get violent.

However the vast majority of the so called gun culture looks at any defensive method less then escalating a situation to the point where deadly force is justified as somehow unAmerican and unmanly. I have a couple theories about why that is, but that discussion wouldn't be on topic here.

In my opinion a training program should include a lot of training on things like situational awareness, verbal judo, and soft empty hand techniques. The problem is, you can't get people to attend firearms training, you sure as heck aren't going to get enough people to attend a course that doesn't emphasize the gun.

Another problem is that most defensive firearms training offered to the private citizen is based on a law enforcement model and it looks at use of deadly force from the viewpoint of someone who has a duty to act, not someone who is free to retreat.

I have been working on a program based on the ADEE model for awhile now. Maybe when ammunition becomes more readily available I will run a class or two so that I can shake out the POI.
 
I've taken a couple firearms training classes each year for the last couple years. The most practically valuable skillsets I've acquired are the avoidance, deselection, disengagement and 'unknown contact management' (credit Southnarc) skills I've been taught. I use these skillsets every week on the subway, leaving the office late, pushing the stroller around on the weekend, etc.

By contrast, I've never had occasion to perform a weak-hand-only pistol reload outside of a class (and one well-run match) setting. I'm glad to say that I lead a relatively uneventful life in that respect :).

I would certainly like to see more classes that skewed the focus to the mundane (but genuinely valuable) day-to-day skills; but I think Jeff's point is spot on: many customers would feel gypped if they spent TD1 shouting at each other instead of making brass.

Jeff - you're within my driving radius. If you get a class set up, please announce it here. I expect I could help fill a couple slots.
 
Problem is unless you have a weekend course that doesn't have a 1000 rnds downrange people feel jipped. The United States shooting courses are considered a martial art, we're that good. Problem is its needed so few times unless you excladed it you should be able to roll out of it. Example Midnight and you walk out of the building towanrd your car. Some one is trailiing do you wait for a confortation or simply walk back into the store? Have you thought about some of the stores you use now and how you would handle it?



Jim
 
How many altercations have you had in your life that didn't get beyond the violent stage?

Many.

I spent the summer between my High School graduation and my ship date for Uncle Sam working nights as an unarmed guard. Part of my "patrol" included several dirt access roads to other out buildings in the complex.Very popular spots for partying. My job was to ask the tresspassers to leave.

Alone, unarmed (did carry a 5 cell Maglite), at night, no radio, and in the days before cell phones. Most left when asked to..others were not so respectfull of my cheap plated badge and no legal authority.:)

I learned real quick to smooth talk my way out of any situation. I guess it is called "Verbal Judo" now. Back then I just considered it saving my a$$.

How many have.

One "for real" altercation.

How many people have you had to shoot?

None. I was armed in my one "for real" encounter. I was caught in condition white and solved the problem with an improvised impact weapon. Then made a hasty retreat.
 
Excellent points. I've actually passed schools up due to high round counts. One school wanted the student to bring 1,250 rounds for a two day school. I thought that was a bit excessive - that's 83.3 loaded magazines expended in 16 hours. :eek:

On another note, I'd love to find a civilian equal to the verbal judo or other confrontation management type courses.
 
Our county was used as a party area for the pagans and the outlaws and their afffliates. My first experience was with the pres from the local chapter. Actuallly it was with some of his people and when it became clear to everyone it was going to be a knives or guns work out the local president stepped in and we had a chat.

Once he realized that all we wanted was to not get placed in a bad precicament and keep our neighbors quiet or we would have about 15 dogs and 50 officers on the scene the pres stated no need for that no one is going to win he agreed to enforce his guys behaviour and we agreed not to Cry Havoc!! and let loose the dogs of war.

It was an uneasy peace but it was peace. The trouble makers were sometime swept up later when they were buy themselves. Over a period of 6 months it worked out pretty good. If we had a problem we would send a couple marked cars over and work it out.



Jim



Jim
 
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Outside of my schoolyard days I haven’t had any confrontations that even went violent. I’ve been pretty good at avoiding & de-escalating & I think most people would be if they would refrain from needing to have the last word. I don’t care what some random person thinks of me. What’s important is that I get home to my family. If that means I walk away while someone calls me names that’s fine. If it means I have to clinch them up, fight for positional dominance & burn them down from a high 2 position then that’ll suck considerably, but I’ll still be around & the end result that is most important to me will be the same.

A lot of people get all ramped up with the Warrior Mindset stuff but fail to accept that, for the most part, the Civilized Human Being Mindset will get them along much better in life.

The skills in between are an interesting area because there is so much fluff & BS about this or that hand to hand system is used by __________ or MMA is trash on the street you need _____________ or whatever. So, instead of going to an MMA gym, or getting some combatives training people wander around with gun, mouth & no other options. What a lot of the critics fail to realize (intentionally or out of ignorance) is that the dojo/cage/mat/whatever techniques can be applied, with minimal changes to a real world confrontation.

A couple things that limit training are laziness & lack of creativity. The first is seen when someone gets winded walking 5 yards to tape up a target & the other is seen in something like “I don’t carry pepper spray because I don’t want to have it blow back in my face.” The first guy is going to do no good in a fight unless he’s suddenly attacked by zombie IDPA targets & the second has such a shallow understanding of a particular tool that he’d rather not think & give up an option than put a little mental effort into it & figure out the proper application. That could be said for any tool, be it OC, a light, knife, etc…

The gun stuff is cool. Everything else is work. The lazy will do whatever they can & use any excuse they can to avoid work.

How do we fix it? The simple answer is exposure. Once people are put in a situation that’ll expose their weaknesses they’re more likely to train to them if they’re of the proper mindset. Others will play ostrich, & they’re harder to get to. The easiest way to get people exposed is to offer up free seminars. Now, we don’t get paid for these so from a money making perspective it may not make sense initially, but we’ve increased our student base every time we’ve run a simple 1-2 hour evening freebie seminar. Well worth it, in my opinion, to pass on 2 hours worth of some solid info to 15 people if we get 2 of them to sign up for paid training. The ones that are there for the freebie aspect may eventually turn around. Same goes for the ostriches. Especially if our freebies-turned-paying students come & share their experiences during the session.

This is more than just a training company issue or a community issue, or a personal motivation/mindset issue. It’s all of the above & unless we, as instructors, teachers & coaches work to figure out how to reach the “I don’t need ___________” group, they’ll always be out there.

In the end, the way we reach people is by answering the 3 year old’s question. “Why?” Why do I need this? Why does _____________ work? Why can’t I just _________? Etc. The ostriches won’t ask the questions so we have to answer them & hope it clears away a little more sand each time. That’s why I keep flying the FOF flag here & at our classes, the hand to hand flag at our gun classes, the gun flag at our hand to hand classes, the “other” weapons flag at all of the above. We have to be persistent, coach & set the example for our students & they’ll follow. It’ll take some longer than others to catch on & some never will, but we can get the ones worth the effort if we make the effort.
 
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