Shooting in front of my house last night...

[joey93turbo]

Last night we were having a little get together at my apartment with six buddies and a half gallon of Jim Beam. I live in a duplex type setup with two townhouses right next to each other, but both are raised up and there's a parking garage underneath. We have two large balconies facing the street, one on the first level where our front door is, and one on the 2nd level off my bedroom.

So my buddy and I are walking up to the house and we notice a nice Land Rover parked down below on the street in front of my apartment. We go in and we start drinking with the other three people already at my apartment. About 10:30pm my roomate comes through the front door and says "Someone's gettin jacked outside for their jewlery". Four of us go outside on the lower balcony in time to see a guy in a dark black hoodie walkin down the street. One of my friends calls to my friend that saw the guy take the guys stuff and says "Hey is that the guy?" really loud.

We see the Land Rover speed forward, turn around, reverse, hit a parked car, then take off down the street toward the guy in the black hoodie (whom my friend said was the one who held up the Land Rover guy). Then we see a Camry fly down the street at about 40mph in the opposite direction of the Land Rover and stop right in front of the driveway to the parking garage under my house, about 15 feet away from us, near where the Land Rover was parked originally. The guy in the black hoodie gets out of the back seat, racks the slide on the gun, and starts running down the street toward the Land Rover. About that time one of my buddies says "He's got a gun!" and we run inside the house.

Just as I make it through my door we hear the four shots one right after the other. I was the last one in so I locked my door and pulled the shade, then ran upstairs to my room along with a buddy of mine who's an ex-marine. He grabbed my AK and I chambered a round in my 226. I don't really know what we were planning, I guess we were most scared that the gunman saw us and he might come up to our apartment, since we saw the whole thing and we were standing outside. Anyway my friends dialed 911 and they got there in about 2 minutes. Nobody was hit, thank god.

What do you guys think?

If you were me, what would you have done?

 

[TonyB]

1st of all......that's why I don't drink..I'd hate to be involved in a shooting with alcohol on my breath,even if I wasn't"drunk"......that being said,I would've been armed and ready..and then called 911.....I certainly wouldn't be out looking for trouble,but if it found me I'd try to be prepared.

 

[RavenVT100]

I had to call 911 recently because some kids exploded some heavy fireworks (cherry bombs or M80s, I assume) and they did it in such a way that it sounded very much like gunfire to me. Fortunately that's all it was, but I'm glad I didn't take chances.

I should also point out that those types of fireworks are banned by Federal law, and they're very uncommon where I live. That isn't to say that I didn't play with them when I was a child, but I grew up in the country and no longer live there.

 

[Partyguy816]

I probably would have done the same thing. I would have ran back to my house and armed myself first incase that guy tried to follow me to my house, then I would have called the police. I'm glad you made it through it alright.

 

[MK11]

I think you handled it just right. Although you're a pretty good friend to let your buddy grab the rifle while you settle for the handgun

 

[joey93turbo]

Haha thanks. I was worried about overpenetration with the 7.62x39 ammo since if anything happened it would be in my home and I have LOTS of people around. I have my Sig loaded with Hyrdashok's. I also have an M4A3 in that same closet. I really need a shotgun.

 

[Jeff White]

Last night we were having a little get together at my apartment with six buddies and a half gallon of Jim Beam.

What time did the party start?

We go in and we start drinking with the other three people already at my apartment. About 10:30pm my roomate comes through the front door and says "Someone's gettin jacked outside for their jewlery".

How much time elapsed between the time the party started and when your roomate came through the door and announced that he witnessed the robbery? How much had you drank between those two times?

Four of us go outside on the lower balcony in time to see a guy in a dark black hoodie walkin down the street. One of my friends calls to my friend that saw the guy take the guys stuff and says "Hey is that the guy?" really loud.

Why didn't you call 911 right away instead of going outside to to watch? It's a natural reaction to want to see what's going on, but by calling 911 and maybe keeping the operator on the line, you might have got officers on the scene in time to catch the criminals.

We see the Land Rover speed forward, turn around, reverse, hit a parked car, then take off down the street toward the guy in the black hoodie (whom my friend said was the one who held up the Land Rover guy).

Ok, just so I've got this straight, the guy in the black hoodie was walking down the street, and the Land Rover turned around and sped towards the guy in the black hoodie who was still walking down the street?

Then we see a Camry fly down the street at about 40mph in the opposite direction of the Land Rover and stop right in front of the driveway to the parking garage under my house, about 15 feet away from us, near where the Land Rover was parked originally. The guy in the black hoodie gets out of the back seat,

If the guy in the black hoodie was walking down the street, and the Land Rover took off after him, how did he get into the back seat of the Camry which stopped in front of the driveway near where the Land Rover was originally parked?

racks the slide on the gun, and starts running down the street toward the Land Rover. About that time one of my buddies says "He's got a gun!" and we run inside the house.

Ok let's go over this again. You're having a party at your house, one of your friends sees a robbery, you all run out on the balcony to see what's going on. A man wearing a black hooded sweatshirt is walking down the street and your friend IDs him as the robbery suspect. At this point, the victim in the Land Rover, executes a three point turn, and comes back looking for the suspect. Then a Toyota Camry comes from the opposite direction at a high rate of speed, stops in front of your driveway and the suspect gets out of the backseat and racks the slide of a semiautomatic pistol and starts running towards the Land Rover. At this point, you and your buddies retreated into the apartment, called 911 and armed yourselves.

I still don't see how the suspect got into the back seat of the Camry unless you left something out.

I also don't see the wisdom in arming your friends considering everyone had been drinking. You can make a determination for yourself about handling firearms, but I'd sure think twice about handing someone at a party like that a firearm, or allowing him to pick one up, regardless of his experience.

Jeff

 

[pythonguy]

Personally, I think they all drank too much Jim Beam, were actually watching the TV which had CSI Miami on, and they shared a hallucination prior to a circle ____.

 

[chopinbloc]

okay, i got a bone to pick with you guys. this whole armed and drinking thing has gone a little too far. while i think we can all agree that it is a bad idea to roll around town drunk and armed, i like to have a few beers at home and sometimes at a friends house. i will not go without a means of defense just because i've been imbibing. if someone comes into my house or yard or my friends house or yard and creats a situation where deadly physical force is necessary, so be it. sure, it doesn't look as good if i smell of beer, but i'm not "bustin' caps" because someone talks bad to me. you will be judged based on wether your actions were justified, not on what level of intoxication you are at. that said we all know that alcohol impairs judgement so maybe this isn't a good idea for everyone, but if you can make rational decisions and you trust your buddies to do so, then be armed. you did the right thing. probably should have called the cops sooner, though.

 

[pythonguy]

chopinbloc,

Sounds like a bunch of baloney to me, what do you think a judge and jury will think when hearing a drinking and shooting case? Its your funeral bud, do as you wish, but don't imply that it is OK to "have a few beers at home and sometimes at a friends house" and carry a gun, much less use it. Just because it sounds rational to you doesn't mean the public will think so too. If you drink at all and engage in firearms carry and/or use, you are taking a huge chance with your liberty. You could lose the right to even have a gun, or worse, jail time for using it. Its something to consider.

 

[jobu07]

Its your funeral bud

If I understand correctly, that's why he thinks it is a safer bet to carry than not carry.

 

[hillbilly]

I'll have to agree with those pointing out the problem with you guys drinking whiskey and then taking up weapons in this specific, particular case.

And I have something to say for those of you who are defending their decision to grab weapons in this case..

There was no justification for the people on the balcony to take up weapons here. Not with the facts as told.

There was no attempt made by any of the perpetrators on the street to attack the people on the balcony.

Even if one of the people on the street had pointed a rifle at the folks on the balcony, and the folks on the balcony had defended themselves with guns, they would all be legally fried.

The prosecutor would just have to ask, "After you called 911 and reported the crime, did you go back inside the apartment or did you stay out on the balcony?"


If you are home drinking whiskey and someone tries to break into your house and you shoot that person, that's one thing.

If you are home drinking whiskey, and you wind up trading gun shots from your balcony with somebody down on the street, even an armed robber, that is something else.

hillbilly

 

[joey93turbo]

Jeff White:

1. The party started around 10pm.
2. My roommate came through the door at 10:19pm, I and the others had one Jim Beam and coke.
3. In hindsight we should have called 911 when we knew about the robbery, very good point.
4. & 5. After the guy jumped the Land Rover guys, he walked down the street to where the getaway car was parked, facing the direction of my house and the Land Rover. Land rover hits the three point reverse and speeds toward the Camry, Camry speeds opposite direction back toward my house and where the Land Rover came from. I forgot to mention that the getaway car (the Camry) was parked down the street and that's where the guy was walking.
6. Yes, that's correct. I only armed one of my friends, and it was because I knew for a fact he was well trained and qualified to operate the weapon, even moreso than the Marines taught him. This might be a point we don't agree on, but if I felt my life might be in danger at a friends house, I would want him to do the same for me.

hillbilly:

You're making it sound like we armed ourselves and returned to the balcony, which isn't the case, and it was only me and one friend with weapons. The ONLY reason we did is because we saw the whole thing and it wouldn't be the first time criminals have gone after witnesses in this neighborhood. We remained locked in the house until the police arrived, at which time we returned the weapons to the closet and went down to give statements. We had no intention of engaging the thug, I have too much to lose and absolutely nothing to gain from that. My biggest concern was that he was going to come up to the balcony/door and I wanted to be prepared in case. I'd feel pretty stupid if he came up shootin and I had a few guns upstairs but wasn't prepared, wouldn't you? I wouldn't shoot someone outside of my home unless I knew for a fact my life was in danger.

 

[pythonguy]

jobu07,

Can you take things out of context any more then that? Way to go seeing the tree but missing the forest.

 

[Jeff White]

Firearms and Alcohol Dont Mix

I don't understand why some people who wouldn't think of drinking and driving think that they possess the judgement to make use of deadly force decisions after imbibing.

Sure I recoginze that some people drink. I like to have a drink myself every now and then. But I'd never consider conduct like has been mentioned in some of the threads here. Take a look at this thread for instance:

Last night we were having a little get together at my apartment with six buddies and a half gallon of Jim Beam.

This doesn't suggest to me that the participants were getting together to enjoy a cocktail before dinner. It sounds to me like the half gallon of Jim Beam was the purpose of the get together.

Not that there is anything wrong with that, but look at the good judgement Mr. Jim Beam brought to the party:

One of my friends calls to my friend that saw the guy take the guys stuff and says "Hey is that the guy?" really loud.

I wasn't there, but it sounds to me like our intrepid young thread starter was worried that they'd drawn attention to themselves with this action. I might be totally wrong, but I've broken up enough of these type parties, when they got out of hand over the years (as a senior NCO in the Army and as a police officer), and I've got a pretty good picture of this in my minds eye.

Fast forward past the confusing report of Land Rovers, Camrys and guys in black hoodies to this:

About that time one of my buddies says "He's got a gun!" and we run inside the house.

Just as I make it through my door we hear the four shots one right after the other. I was the last one in so I locked my door and pulled the shade, then ran upstairs to my room along with a buddy of mine who's an ex-marine. He grabbed my AK and I chambered a round in my 226. I don't really know what we were planning, I guess we were most scared that the gunman saw us and he might come up to our apartment, since we saw the whole thing and we were standing outside. Anyway my friends dialed 911 and they got there in about 2 minutes. Nobody was hit, thank god.

So we've got six people in an apartment, in various states of inebriation and two of them are loading weapons. So what happens when someone trips, or unloads the weapons by removing the magaziine and presses the trigger to drop the hammer and the first indication that they forgot to clear the champer is BANG!!??

People do these things sober, don't you think there is a much better chance of having a negligent discharge after you've been drinking?

It's one thing to sit at home and drink yourself into oblivion and then use a firearm to defned yourself against an intruder...it's another thing altogether to allow another person who's been drinking to handle your weapons in that situation. Who do you think would have been held responsible if there had been a tragic accident?

We'd all have a nice media report to digest over in General Gun Discussions or Legal and Political and some members life may be ruined for years or forever. The antis will have another accidental shooting to use against us. It's just not worth it.

Jeff

 

[joey93turbo]

I know that accidents are more likely to happen when alcohol is involved but when you make safe gun handling a habit, it's like second nature. As I said, we're both trained with the use of the guns. I chambered a round in my Sig and kept my finger off the trigger. I think that's rule #2? the AK did not have a round in the chamber at any time.

I realize I presented that in a way that would make the half gallon of JB seem like the focus, my fault.

 

[Curare]

If you have consumed alcohol you still have the right to protect yourself. Not the ideal situation by any means, but when is a lethal force encounter ever ideal?

 

[DigMe]

To those who say any kind of alcohol is an automatic death sentence I say "maybe in YOUR neck of the woods." In Austin last year a CHL holder was involved in shooting someone who was breaking into his car. The guy had a couple of drinks in him as he was at a restaurant. They tried to use that in court and it didn't work. He was acquited...in the most liberal city in Texas.

I'm not making any points other than alcohol is not an automatic guilty verdict, just like the police don't give you a DWI for having a drink and then driving because for most people one drink is not "inebriated." The gun laws around these parts are the same. You can carry if you're not inebriated.

brad cook

 

[W Turner]

A few points that come to mind when reading this thread...

1-6 full grown (I assume) versus 1/2 gallon of Jim Beam? The poor taste in liqiour aside , a half a gallon isn't a whole lot for 6 adult males.

2-the guy already said they each had drank only 1 Beam and Coke when the incident ocurred. Unless the drinks were stupid-size, no one should have been "inebriated".

3-It sounds like the guns were put away when the drinking started as they should have been and were only brought when there was the possibility of a threat. Yes, the possibility fo a threat is remote in this situation, but the possibility of being involved in a self-defense shooting while going about your daily life is remote as well. Guess we don't really NEED those pistols and CCW permits.

4-Poor situational awareness by the guy who said " Is that the guy?". Common sense would dictate keeping your mouth shut, being a good witness, and calling the popo.

I don't beleive that just because I choose to have a couple of drinks/beers, I have to give up my right to self-protection. There have been a few times in the past few years where I knew there was a strong possilibity that I would have more than a few. I didn't carry those times, but if I am going to dinner and decide to have a beer, I will not leave myself and my family defenseless. I also don't think twice about driving when I have drank a beer, then had a full meal at a restaurant. Common sense...

W

 

[Andrew Rothman]

1-6 full grown (I assume) versus 1/2 gallon of Jim Beam? The poor taste in liqiour aside, a half a gallon isn't a whole lot for 6 adult males.

Let's see: Half a gallon is 64 ounces. That's 64 shots of 80-proof whiskey, or 10-2/3 shots per adult male.

That is one heck of a lot.

I ran some hypothetical numbers through a BAC calculator here, and even if a 180-lb guy takes a whole 4 hours to drink 10 drinks, he still has a BAC of .166, or over twice the legal limit for driving.