Trigger does not release hammer at full cock position

[jbscuba]

I replaced the cylinder lock, hand assembly and hammer spring on my 1851 Navy Colt. I am brand new to cap and ball shooting and the replica revolver I have needed new pieces.
After putting it back together, the trigger does not release the hammer at full cock. I can hear the hammer click into half and full cock position, but the hammer goes back to the half cock position, and does not stay in a full cock position.
When I pull the trigger nothing happens, as it is in half cock position. If I pull the hammer back manually and release the trigger it releases all the way.
Does anyone have information on what I may have done wrong?
Thanks!

 

[denster]

A couple of things come to mind. If the trigger is actually dropping into the full cock notch but the hammer goes back to half cock then either the full cock notch or trigger nose or both are damaged.
More likely though since you replaced the hand and the locking bolt the timing is off and the hand is over rotating the cylinder and allowing the bolt to drop into the cylinder notch before the trigger can drop into the full cock notch.

 

[jbscuba]

Thank you. I assume I did not install the cylinder lock, screw and trigger correctly or aligned them wrong. I did notice that the cylinder lock did not seem to raise itself up enough at full cock position. Would this have anything to do with it? I wish there was a detailed set of instructions to install/deinstall the revolver. I only have the diagram of all components.
Is there a youtube on this?

 

[Fingers McGee]

More than likely, the hand is too long. These links ought to help you figure out the problem & fix it. Title is for Pietta; but Colt's and Ubertis are made the same.

http://www.theopenrange.net/articles/Tuning_the_Pietta_Part_One.pdf

http://www.theopenrange.net/articles/Tuning_the_Pietta_Part_Two.pdf

 

[4v50 Gary]

Hammer doesn't rotate fully forward because it is intercepted by the sear. Also, with the hand not fully rotating the cylinder, it could be either the bolt not dropping in time or the hand needs adjustment.

 

[J-Bar]

If you still have the old hand and a micrometer, compare the lengths of the old versus the new hand. Measure from the pivot to the tip of the hand, not the overall length, to get the "working length." As others have pointed out, the new hand is likely to be quite a bit longer than your old one. Measuring the length of the old one gives you a guide to how much you will have to shorten the new one. Don't try to duplicate the length completely at the first step however...your old hand may have been worn too short. (Maybe why you replaced it?) Get the new one down to a few thousandths too long, then fine tune from there.

 

[jbscuba]

Thank you all for your help.
Denster I must have put the new pieces back incorrectly or in the wrong sequence. Is there a step by step list to advise on how to reinstall?

It may also be what the others have also indicated. I may have to file down the new pieces, but I was hoping it was an easier fix.

I still have the old pieces and the hand assembly spring is what originally broke. The old cylinder lock is intact, but I see wear on one side. I thought replacing that would be best. I may put the old lock back to see if that fixes this situation.

Is there a specific order to re-install?

 

[J-Bar]

Others may do it differently...

Bolt ( what you are calling cylinder lock), trigger, then bolt/trigger spring. Put the hand in the hammer, then slide both into the frame while holding trigger all the way back. Secure hammer with its screw. Then gently cock the hammer to allow the leg of the bolt to ride up onto the cam. So far this has worked ok for me, but it will be interesting to see if it is criticized.

 

[Cowhide Cliff]

My guess is without looking at the gun is you are hearing the bolt drop early instead of the trigger going into the full cock notch. If you can't continue to pull the hammer back to full cock after hearing that second click the hand is probably too long.

 

[45 Dragoon]

J-Bar,
I usually install the hammer and hand first, then your install. Of course if you're working on the hammer or hand, then you can remove/install the hammer without all the other stuff.
I think it's a "this is how I do it" kinda thing.
The build sequence at Colt had them install the hammer /hand first, bolt, trigger, combo spring,T.G., main spring, B.S.with grip.

Mike
www.goonsgunworks.com

 

[denster]

From what you have described almost certainly your new hand is a bit too long and needs to be fit. A goodplace to start is to compare it to the old hand. Regarding the bolt what appears to be wear is likely an area of the bolt leg that has been beveled and smoothed to ease it's passage to reset when the hammer falls.
Check out the videos that Fingers suggested and there are others on youtube.

 

[J-Bar]

"Of course if you're working on the hammer or hand, then you can remove/install the hammer without all the other stuff."

45 Dragoon:

You nailed it. I got used to re-installing the hammer and hand last after working on replacement hands and hand springs. It was a pain to pull the bolt and trigger each time I wanted to tweak a hand spring. So I just kept doing it that way.

 

[jbscuba]

Thanks all.
I took it apart and the new hand assembly and spring is 1/8" longer than the old one.
I put it back in and tried installing the trigger and bolt as described.
I am now able to pull the hammer to full cock position and the trigger releases the hammer.
The problem I now see, is the cylinder does not rotate the chamber fully and align it for a fully cocked hammer. The cylinder does not advance the cylinder enough. If I manually push it in place, the trigger releases properly and the hammer comes down properly.
Would the over long hand assembly cause that?

 

[45 Dragoon]

Yes,
The hand is too long and won't drop behind the next tooth of the ratchet. It keeps pushing the tooth for the chamber that's already in battery. You can manually turn the cylinder to the next chamber but that is the hands job!!

It needs to be shortened.

Mike
www.goonsgunworks.com

 

[MRRAGPICKER]

Had the same problem with the 4" barrel birdshead ROA I built. I had to shorten the hand, I used a dremel tool with a cutoff wheel to sand it down, but if your not experienced in metal fabrication, you should use a hand file.

 

[jbscuba]

Thanks. Just a tought...but could I take the spring from the new hand assembly and put that in the old hand assembly. If this is not an option, I can use the dremel tool to cut down the 1/8" of steel on the hand and the spring.
I would like to just use the old hand as it seems cut perfectly for the revolver.

 

[denster]

You could swap out the springs but that is a bit tricky. Best bet is to fit the new hand. Resist the urge to use power tools. The hand is not hardened nor should it be and it files easily.

 

[jbscuba]

Thanks. I will try that.

 

[jbscuba]

I purchased 8" files, one half round file and a tapered file. I have a small vise to hold the hand in place. I will mark off, comparing it to the old one. The spring is also too long so I can use wire cutters or a dremel disc. Unless you have a better idea.