Trivia question :what caused this neck to part

[jasza]

This happened a couple of times to my friend at the range today. He had to use a ramrod to eject the neck that was stuck in the chamber when he ejected the cartridge.
He gave me the answers immediately to the below questions , let's see who else knows!

Questions for those that know:
a) what caused the neck to part
b) how do you prevent this
c) how do you fix ammo where you suspect this might be a problem.

Info:
-Once fired good quality sako brass.
-Bolt action 222.
-My friend has been reloading for a VERY long time hence its not an overcharge problem.

 

[Random 8]

A manufacturing defect is one possibility. Operator error and entropy is another, and that will require some follow up questions.

Was the ammo loaded a long time ago? (I've seen this in old brass cased miltary and commercial ammo from a probable chemical change in sealant, entropy, or cold welding of bullet jacket to case).
Was a non-standard solution used for polishing/cleaning or somehow introduced along the way? (Some chemicals can degrade brass).
Was the brass user-annealed (poorly?) or excessively work hardened somehow?
Was it a non standard bullet from a questionable or old manufacturer? (some contain jacket alloys prone to cold welding).

 

[Skgreen]

What sizing die was used?

 

[243winxb]

I will wait for the answer. 223

 

[jonas66]

Sounds like Random 8 has it covered there...but as a newbie with no reason to have an opinion I'm curious for myself-- is it possible that improper or excessive neck-turning could cause something like that?

 

[reloaded_in_pa]

Overheated while annealing?

 

[milsurpguy]

I have had that happen on factory new 30-30 made by Remington. Never did find the neck...
I assumed it was excessive case length, as I had some long ones come in that lot.

 

[BBarn]

Possible internal corrosion at juncture of case and base of seated bullet. A possible byproduct of powder deterioration.

Another possibility would be an excessively thin neck from turning.

 

[45 long]

I had all kinds of smarta$$ answers ready, but I'll have to go along with milspurguy that it's most likely from a case length issue.

 

[rfwobbly]

The most common causes of this kind of break-up are money and sex.

 

[jasza]

LOL all entertaining answers thanks for participating. The reason given to me by my buddy was that when he does his resizing he puts a bit of case lube inside the neck before sizing, the lube acts like lube for a while then , after a few years , it gives up acting like lube and dries out and acts like glue. "glube". It glues the bullet to the neck. When the shot is fired, the bullet takes the neck with it for a while, and leaves the neck in the lands.

He loaded this ammo 8 years ago. He uses the oil lube, not the dry lube.

The solution is to dry the neck out after sizing before loading, or use a different lube, or shoot your ammo quicker, he owns too many guns so only gets to shoot this one every few years, so he should consider owning less guns.

If you suspect you might have this problem then just put them all back in the press and seat the bullet by a thou. sure you will increase the jump a bit but it breaks the grip of the glube.

The puzzling thing for me, is my friend seemed to know all of this, he knew exactly what happened and why and how to fix it, and yet he still arrived at the range day without taking any remedial action. Maybe he was just trying to give us all an object lesson!

 

[DocRock]

Does he never wash his cases ? Seems odd.

Brittle brass worked hard and no annealing would be more likely than “glube” in my view, but perhaps not as entertaining.

 

[kalielkslayer]

I would say case length. But jasza might be onto something.

 

[Dale Alan]

You mention once fired , was the first firing done in your friend's rifle ?

 

[Walkalong]

It glues the bullet to the neck.

Really old ammo can do this as well, the cure is to seat the bullets a hair more to break the bond before firing them.

 

[243winxb]

it gives up acting like lube and dries out and acts like glue. "glube".

See post 13 https://www.thehighroad.org/index.php?threads/sealing-ammo-from-moisture.832961/

Waterproof Ammo

PRIMER SEALANT: Water resistant lacquer is used by Federal on XM193 & case mouth sealant is also used . http://www.mlefiaa.org/files/ERPR/XM193.pdf Lake City Army Ammunition is also tested for waterproofing. http://www.army.mil/article/11859 If your going into the water, do seal the ammo. I dont. For long term storage, there are other things to worry about. Some powders have special additives for long term storage.

Asphalt, water based ammunition waterproofing sealant

http://www.hernon.com/search-for-adhesives/522/Hernon® Bullet Proof 650Note that Federal lists bullet pull at a minimum of 35 lbs with a sealant .
The sealant is to water proof, but may increase bullet pull? I would guess, cold weld of bullet and case may add to the pounds of pull needed to move a bullet?? Would depend on how long the ammo was in storage. Maximum attainable bullet pull is about 100 lbs. without sealants

 

[sparkyv]

Glube...whodda thunk it?

 

[243winxb]

Brittle brass is why necks crack.
There are many reasons why it becomes brittle.
1. Not annealed correctly at factory. Cheap ammo will get less annealing.

2.Solvents or liquid cleaning agents. Annonia or vinegar. Residue from first firing left in brass.

3. Dies over working the brass. Some new brass already has a donut. 223/5.56 Bushing die or neck turning solves the problem. Neck turned brass can be loaded in my RCBS standard FL die.

4. Overly large chamber that allows brass to expand more then normal. This over works brass.

5. Dezincification
http://benchrest.com/showthread.php?58344-Dezincification-of-Brass-Liquid-cleaners

All may produce Brittle Brass.

 

[243winxb]

Brittle brass can also cause *case separations* in some firearms https://discover.dtic.mil/

Some Win Nato 5.56 ammo produced *CS* in a Galil rifle. 1 extra annealing fixed it. https://apps.dtic.mil/dtic/tr/fulltext/u2/a030722.pdf The cycling of the action is different then M16 rifles.

On annealing the neck/shoulder, the case body is stress relieved at 400F degrees.

Conclusions
The goal of this research has been to clarify why, of all lots tested,
only the conination of Winchester aniunition/Galil rifle produced misfires,
ruptures and circumferential case wall stretching. Research findings point to
the following chain of events:
Case wall rupture results from a coaxial shear stress that rips the
wall asunder in a mechanism similar to static stretching of a tube under load.
Our speculation is that the rupture occurs during retration of the bolt while
propellant gas pressure in the bore is still relatively high.
The reduction in strength demonstrated by Winchester cases is not
apparent from its hardness pattern. There is thus no possibility of predicting
behavioral anomalies from a knowledge of hardness gradients alone.
As is well known, resistance of cartridge brass to drawing depends
upon wall geometry (thickness). The reduction in strength is especially
sensitive to profile or localized wall geometry variations. Of all the case
lots surveyed, the Winchester lots were approximately 20% weaker when compared
against cases derived from other sources. This variance is attributed mainly
to differences in grain structure and size; the grain size found in Winchester
case walls was much larger than that observed in all of the remaining lots
sampled. Sources of (grain size) variance arise from the particular arrange-
ment of process operations utilized in case manufacturing and these operations
are not generally modified to satisfy individual customer's specifications.
The Winchester cases are more likely to prove acceptable if the final annealing
temperature is raised or its duration prolonged to levels comparable with those
normally found at other manufacturing plants.
Therefore, in order to avoid the firing difficulties encountered in
the Winchester/Galil case system, the following two courses of action may be
taken, either separately or together:
a. Increase the resistance to wall rupture by modifying the ammunition
production process.
b. Delay removal of the rifle bolt (change the rifle's timing) until
propellant gas pressure inside the bore has diminished.

 

[BigAlShooter]

Did he say what type of lube? I recently shot some 8+ year old reloads I made that I didn't tumble clean the lube off after resizing. I usually would just take a wet towel and clean the outside of the case good and not clean the lube off the inside of the neck. I mainly use Franklin Arsenal spray lube or the tube of Lee lube. I've never had a problem and I have been reloading for a long time.

Seems the lube broke down and stopped being a lube and seized up, which should not ever happen. I think there must be some type of contamination that happened. Was it copper jacketed bullets? Maybe he improperly stored the ammo.

 

[243winxb]

Vinegar needs to be deactivated, or brass turns brown & becomes brittle.

Old NRA- 1 pint of water, 1 cup of white vinegar, 1 tablespoon of salt, and 1 teaspoon of detergent". Mix the solution in container. Shake 10 minutes with brass. Rinse 10 minutes clean water. Sun dry. This was printed in an NRA reprint of loading for the 45 acp many years ago.

Results over time photo. LC brass.

 

[PWC]

I'd go with BBarn; parting "line" looks like where necks were turned.

 

[WestKentucky]

I’m going with a neck turn that got trim length too short for the chamber and then when fired the neck stretched to it’s breaking point. Could also possibly be that the shoulder was bumped back too far work hardening the brass and making it brittle, but a once fired cartridge would seldom snap like that.

 

[mdi]

How many cases failed? If there was only one, it will be nearly impossible to find out why. A random failure?

 

[The Car Doctor]

Interesting. I had some 30+ year old 223 reloads that I recently seated the bullet a tiny bit more. I was surprised at how much effort it took.