Trump: Take Guns Before Due Process

[Cayce Charles]

I agree 100%. The Florida shooter didn't confit a crime till he fired the first round. Same with Virginia Tech shooter. Same with Colorado shooter.
Sometimes you ned to take action when you smell smoke, not wait till you see fire.

 

[Tommygunn]

Anyone in government who has is willing to utter something along the lines of what Trump said about due process has no place in government. Add in his statements about China's new "President for Life" being something "maybe we should try here sometime," and we are approaching a very dangerous point .....

-Jenrick

We are also approaching a very dangerous point when people can't recognize humor when a president we might disagree with indulges in it .....

 

[Tommygunn]

I agree 100%. The Florida shooter didn't confit a crime till he fired the first round. Same with Virginia Tech shooter. Same with Colorado shooter.
Sometimes you ned to take action when you smell smoke, not wait till you see fire.

Really? I thought Nikolas Cruz pointed a gun at his mother. THAT isn't a crime?



IT SHOULD BE!!

 

[<*(((><]

We are also approaching a very dangerous point when people can't recognize humor when a president we might disagree with indulges in it .....

I didn't find anything Trump said in that video humorous. And anyone who thought that his words were meant to be a joke needs to take the subject of the debate more serious. Tyranny is no joking matter.

 

[Tommygunn]

Oh really? You think Trump is a tyrant? Would you have prefered Hillary?

Am I supposed to take YOU seriously?

 

[Sav .250]

Sounds like he was just talking........... J s/n.

 

[<*(((><]

Oh really?

Yes, really.

You think Trump is a tyrant?

I believe his words spoken in that meeting were the same words that have been spoken in the past by tyrants. If you are ok with giving up your rights to a fair trial, then go to Venezuela. Oh wait, that example of tyranny has run it's course.

Would you have prefered Hillary?

Nope, but no publically elected official, president or not, is above the Constitution. Sad that I have to mention that, especially given the audience we have on THR.

Am I supposed to take YOU seriously?

I don't care if you do or you don't. I'll leave it at that.

 

[Tommygunn]

Yes, really.



I believe his words spoken in that meeting were the same words that have been spoken in the past by tyrants. If you are ok with giving up your rights to a fair trial, then go to Venezuela. Oh wait, that example of tyranny has run it's course.



Nope, but no publically elected official, president or not, is above the Constitution. Sad that I have to mention that, especially given the audience we have on THR.



I don't care if you do or you don't. I'll leave it at that.

I'm not willing to give up my rights for anyone, however, I'm not losing any sleep over jokes (bad, good, or whatever) a president issues. His comment regarding president for life was a joke made in the aftermath of the Chinese president essentially doing that. Our Constitution absolutly prohibits it. Trump making a joke doesn't indicate he believes he's above the law. Anyone believing our freedoms are at risk because Trump made a silly joke about it is a hysteric, PERIOD.

Tyrants have said many things in the past ....some of them sound quit benign, and similar to what our own leaders have said. That doesn't mean our leaders were tyrants. Even Obama, who did a number of things extra-legally (and some were knocked down by a court) was not a tyrant, just an egotist.

 

[<*(((><]

I'm not willing to give up my rights for anyone, however, I'm not losing any sleep over jokes (bad, good, or whatever) a president issues. His comment regarding president for life was a joke made in the aftermath of the Chinese president essentially doing that. Our Constitution absolutly prohibits it. Trump making a joke doesn't indicate he believes he's above the law. Anyone believing our freedoms are at risk because Trump made a silly joke about it is a hysteric, PERIOD.

Tyrants have said many things in the past ....some of them sound quit benign, and similar to what our own leaders have said. That doesn't mean our leaders were tyrants. Even Obama, who did a number of things extra-legally (and some were knocked down by a court) was not a tyrant, just an egotist.

We are not even talking about the same thing with Trump. I’m talking about my first post where he suggests circumventing due process. And he was serious about it as he interrupted his Vice President to make the statement.

 

[Tommygunn]

We are not even talking about the same thing with Trump. I’m talking about my first post where he suggests circumventing due process. And he was serious about it as he interrupted his Vice President to make the statement.

In case you didn't notice, that statement has been "walked back," poli-speak for refuted, or countermanded.
In some cases, "due process" may be circumvented, such as in a situation where a police officer must make an emergency entry into a building if he has good reason to believe a life is in danger and obtaining a warrant would take too long, so there are exceptions to "due process" in certain limited circumstances, and this has always been true.
Whether or not confiscation of firearms belonging to a potentially dangerous person would come under such an exception would depend upon the exact circumstances, and it would probably be possible to think up circumstances that would qualify, as well as those that would not.
So, despite the brouhaha over this statement, Trump was not really that much out of line.

 

[CoalTrain49]

We are also approaching a very dangerous point when people can't recognize humor when a president we might disagree with indulges in it .....

I don't think it was humor. It's just Trumps way of creating chaos and confusion with those around him. Anyone working in the WH will tell you most of the time they have no idea where he stands from day to day on any issue. Lots of them have quit and some of them may even be prosecuted because they took what he said literally. Too bad for them and too bad for the people that voted for him.

 

[Tommygunn]

What do you charge someone with if they work for a President who's like that? Believing what isn't true? Obama told us "if we like our insurance policy we'd be able to keep it." That was a lie ....did someone go to jail over that? I don't think so.
I think the stories about WH chaos are exaggerated. Working there in any administration is apparently quite intense and burnout is pretty common.

 

[Duster340]

Anyone in government who has is willing to utter something along the lines of what Trump said about due process has no place in government. Add in his statements about China's new "President for Life" being something "maybe we should try here sometime," and we are approaching a very dangerous point.

If the current President had a (D) next to their name instead of an (R), very few on this forum would be willing to say it was "tactic," "strategy," or "speaking off the cuff." Rather I think there'd be some VERY concerned discussions about maybe we are about to enter a period where the 2nd amendment serves what many of us feel it exists to do, prevent us from facing a tyrannical government bent on depriving us of our rights and liberties. He should not get a free pass because he allegedly is (R) and allegedly is pro-gun. We would NEVER give another person in the political system the benefit of the doubt, if they said due process to take our arms was unnecessary.

Even if the statements above are in fact wily attempts at misdirection, they go against core concepts of American culture and government and are not acceptable. If they are uttered today with no consequence (particularly from those who should be yelling the loudest) they will begin to become the new normal as they are repeated over and over again. Maybe not today or tomorrow, and it make take a couple of decades, but there will be a continual thread of due process being non-important and non-central the American legal system. The idea of electoral terms getting longer and longer, and term limits going away will be tossed around. This leads to a very dark place. I for one have no desire to go there, and no tolerance for those who are willing to take American ideals central to our legal system, government, and culture and throw them into the dust for political purposes. We have castigated, rallied, protested, and vilified those who have said far less from a position of far less power, yet we are willing to give a pass now?

I have contacted my elected officials including my state legislators, governor, senators, and representatives, with a slightly longer and personally directed version of the above.

-Jenrick

Well said Jenrick.

 

[CoalTrain49]

What do you charge someone with if they work for a President who's like that? Believing what isn't true? Obama told us "if we like our insurance policy we'd be able to keep it." That was a lie ....did someone go to jail over that? I don't think so.
I think the stories about WH chaos are exaggerated. Working there in any administration is apparently quite intense and burnout is pretty common.

I used to work for a government agency. I was given assignments that were legally questionable. I had to check with the prosecutors office at least once to get a legal opinion on what my supervisor was asking me to do. I had to refuse the assignment based on a prosecutors recommendation that I had personal liability if did what I was asked to do. Happens in Gov't all the time. You have to CYA and be smart enough to know whats legal and what isn't. Obviously you have never heard of Watergate.

What Obama originally wanted in the ACA he didn't get. Congress wrote the bill, he just singed it. What he said was based on what he wanted, not what was actually signed into law. It's a bit like Trump promising that the Mexican government will pay for the beautiful wall. Not much chance of that happening. Politicians promise lots of things they can't deliver.

If the stories are exaggerated then why do so many people leave? No other adm that I know of has had that problem.

 

[Tommygunn]

While Trump has had more than the usual # leave, I'm inclined to chalk most up to media hysteria. Some talking head pointed out President Reagan had more turnover in his administration. While I recall a lot of that in the 1980s, I can't say if it was actually more than Trump's or not.

I do know one thing, and this applied for 40 years; NO WAY ON EARTH WOULD I EVER EVER EVER EVER WORK IN THE WHITE HOUSE, OR WASHINGTON IN ANY GOVERNMENT CAPACITY. Nope. Never. Not enough money in the world. Not even under Ronald Reagan, who I actually DID like (unlike Trump who is only the "lesser evil.")

I lived through Watergate....do not tell me that happened because some pencil neck policy wonk somehow didn't know right from wrong. It was a deliberately planned, with foreknowledge, burglary of DNC headquarters, a actual known crime with mens rea, bungled because someone used masking tape to thwart a spring loaded doorlock, which was discovered by a guard.
President Nixon became an active accomplice after the fact because he covered it up....a fact that became undeniable when tape recordings were made public.
A very very different thing than someone like you ....who had to seek legal advice to figure out right from wrong.

 

[Tommygunn]

Oooops, double post. Sorry

 

[Crawdad1]

Wait a minute, Obama in 2009 and 2010 had nearly 60 democratic senators which is filibuster proof. He didn't get what he wanted? He had complete control how didn't he get what he wanted?

He got exactly what he wanted. Take a good look.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/111th_United_States_Congress

 

[Cayce Charles]

What do you charge someone with if they work for a President who's like that? Believing what isn't true? Obama told us "if we like our insurance policy we'd be able to keep it." That was a lie ....did someone go to jail over that? I don't think so.
I think the stories about WH chaos are exaggerated. Working there in any administration is apparently quite intense and burnout is pretty common.

And not to forget the famous "I DID NOT HAVE SEX WITH THAT WOMAN."

 

[CoalTrain49]

I lived through Watergate....do not tell me that happened because some pencil neck policy wonk somehow didn't know right from wrong.

Where did I say that. Those are your words.

It was about 40 people who were indicted or jailed. I read the news also.

My point was that people in gov't don't always have the best judgement. I used Watergate as an example, but I guess you missed that.

A very very different thing than someone like you ....who had to seek legal advice to figure out right from wrong.

If you've never used an attorney for legal advise I assume you know everything there is to know about the law.

If you aren't a college law professor or practicing attorney you certainly should be.

Just because someone uses an attorney doesn't mean a person doesn't know right from wrong. Most who have lived past 30 and have an IQ above 100 have hired an attorney at some point in their lives for different reasons.

And the mass exodus continues. Gary Cohn resigned today. More to follow.

 

[CoalTrain49]

While Trump has had more than the usual # leave, I'm inclined to chalk most up to media hysteria

Media hysteria? That's hysterical right there. No, I'm pretty sure it's something else.

 

[Tommygunn]

Where did I say that. Those are your words.

It was about 40 people who were indicted or jailed. I read the news also.

My point was that people in gov't don't always have the best judgement. I used Watergate as an example, but I guess you missed that.



If you've never used an attorney for legal advise I assume you know everything there is to know about the law.

If you aren't a college law professor or practicing attorney you certainly should be.

Just because someone uses an attorney doesn't mean a person doesn't know right from wrong. Most who have lived past 30 and have an IQ above 100 have hired an attorney at some point in their lives for different reasons.

And the mass exodus continues. Gary Cohn resigned today. More to follow.

It takes REALLY BAD judgement to conflate someone who needs legal advice with a group of "plumbers" who actively engaged in criminal activity. Watergate was spearheaded by George Gordon Liddy, a lawyer himself and an F. B. I. agent.
It IS NOT an example of bad judgement, it's outright criminal activity --- and it's you who missed that.

Of course I have used an attorney, to help probation a will. That law is no different than being a plumber....the plumber has to know the tools and where and how to use them, as a lawyer has to know his the legal tools and how they're used.

 

[Tommygunn]

Media hysteria? That's hysterical right there. No, I'm pretty sure it's something else.

If you haven't been following the media since the 2016 election, they've been in a near collective meltdown since Trump won....the Trump hate is overflowing, false news about Trump abounds. I guess you missed all that. I guess you actually believe what the news anchors spew, along with the other talking heads on MSNBC, CNN, and other news sources.

There's no doubt people have left. Gary Cohn's resignation apparently was initiated weeks ago. As I pointed out before , I believe Reagan had a higher turnover. I also pointed out the white house is a very intense place to work, no matter who is president .... but I guess you missed that.

I guess you don't like Trump much. Hey, I get it. He wasn't my first choice either. His singular redeeming quality is he is better than Hillary. That's not saying much. I support his agenda and think he has accomplished a lot of good.
But he is also a somewhat crude person in many ways. Reportedly his IQ is @156, so he isn't stupid .... just in need of a filter.

 

[JohnKSa]

Seems things have wandered a bit from talking about due process and firearm laws...