Trustworthy Handloading Manuals (or Maufactuer'ers Fact Sheets)

[Ala Dan]

Simply put, which handloading manual of manufactuer'ers
fact sheets do you trust your handloading skills to?

Over the years, Ive used Lyman, Speer, and Hornady
with great success. But, I recently read where Speer
#8, may contain some dangerous data for certain
loads. I don't have that information before me right
now; but the user was very concerned, and right fully
so if his information was correct.

So, what is your expert opinion; does Speer (and quite
possibily others) have some ghost in their closets? To
the best of your knowledge, did they ever correct the
error's? Many thanks in advance for the reply's!

Best Wishes,
Ala Dan, N.R.A. Life Member

 

[Quantrill]

I never completely "trust" any of the manuals. Always compare to see if any are out of line. Quantrill

 

[g56]

The old saying applies, trust but verify. I use the Speer book mostly, but I always try several different sources to compare the data, misprints and other things can happen, I like to be as safe as reasonably possible.

 

[HSMITH]

I have Speer, Lyman, Hodgdon, Lee and Hornady manuals. I supplement that with printed data from the websites of the powder makers, the annual pamphlets of the powder makers and anything else I can find.

The lowest quality data I have found is Lee, the closest to real life is Lyman and overall balance of quality and coverage might just be the Speer and Hornady books.

I have found HUGE and potentially dangerous errors in only in Hodgdon and Lee data. Hodgdon called out an APB warning to handloaders. Lee isn't selling the book anymore and I don't think they did anything about it since the start data was more than likely in or at SAAMI max.

I use them all. They all serve a purpose. I think you need at LEAST 3 sources to use or you are headed for trouble.

 

[Third_Rail]

I only reload from my uncle's data, mostly because I don't know how to properly request load data from manufacturers....

 

[Rico567]

Lots of good comments on this thread. I think the best was to cross reference multiple reloading handbooks. I'm sure the major handbooks are carefully checked, but errors can still creep in. I would be much less trusting of anything in a periodical (and I don't care whether it's G&A, or Handloader, or what) or in what's on the Internet.

Ala Dan, I am the proud owner of a Speer #8, and used it as the basis for loads until I bought a #10 (I now use a #13. I heard the same thing you did a long time ago, that the #8 was a source of some dangerous loads, but can't verify that from any data I ever used from it.

 

[tc300mag1]

i use lyman and lee dont like the new lyman #48 as well as #47

 

[Ala Dan]

Greeting's Rico567-

First off, let me welcome you to THR as we are glad to
have you join us! Many good folks here, with a vast
amount of knowledge; who are willing to share that
information with others.

Begining in 1973, I started off using nothing but the
Sierra first edition manual; mainly cuz I wasn't in the
casting business at the time, so I relied solely on the
Sierra 170 grain JHC for my 4" Smith & Wesson model
57 in .41 magnum.

Later, I added not only the casting equipment; but
Lyman #45 and Speer #8. Even later, I added
the Hornady Handbook for yet another reference.
I must admitt, I've never experienced a problem in
using data from any of these manuals~! Sold all
my handloading equipment, and publications when
I entered the police academy; as I didn't figure I
would have time for that kind'a stuff. Boy, was I
forever wrong; and found myself with the urge to
get back into a hobby that I dearly love!

Now days, I too rely heavily on Speer #13. I see
where they have discontinued some of the bullets
from their line that I use to use; such as the .357
diameter 146 grain half-jacket JHP's. Wish they
would bring 'em back for sure!

Best Wishes,
Ala Dan, N.R.A. Life Member

 

[Mike Irwin]

Hornady first, Lyman second, then the powder manufacturer's pamphlets or websites as confirmation.

 

[HankB]

I seldom work on developing new loads these days . . . I went through the exercises, and settled on a number of "standards" that work well in MY firearms for everything from plinking to Cape buffalo.

Speer #8 was my first reference, but many of their handgun loads were WAY too hot, IMHO. Particularly some of their SR-4756 loads. (BTW, SR-4756 is really a good powder, filling the same niche as Unique, but much cleaner.)

Interestingly enough, when a friend bought himself a Speer #8 a year or two later, the SR-4756 loads in many cartridges were GONE . . . there were just blank spaces in the tables where they used to be. Hmmm . . .

Some printings of Barnes' first manual had typos as well, though I don't remember coming across anything that was actually dangerous.

So . . . try to verify and cross-check your loads from more than one source. To paraphrase Mark Twain, be careful about reading handloading books, you might die of a misprint.

 

[Ala Dan]

Many thanks Hank B for sharing that information!

I too used Speer #8 quite a bit when I first started
handloading. My copy had all the data listed. You
have to wonder, did Speer have their publisher
come to a halt in the printing process?

You explained why my .357 magnum loads were
screaming from my 6" barrel, 70's model Colt Python;
as I used Speer's 146 grain half-jacket JHP's over
a few grains of SR-4756. At one point with those
loads, I thought my wife was gonna throw my
Python on the ground; as it scared her badly!
Flames jumped out of the barrel, and she must
have thought it was going to set the woods on
fire? (Laughing Loudly)

Best Wishes,
Ala Dan, N.R.A. Life Member

 

[JackM]

I started with Speer #7. The .357 loads didn't use SR-4756, just Unique and 2400 wirh lead bullets, plus Red Dot and the obsolete AL-5, AL-8 and 230P for jacketed bullets. The loads aren't what I'd call excessive. The .35 Remington loads, however; Ah! There be Dragons! Good thing I wasn't loading for it back then.

Bye
Jack

 

[Clark]

"Speer 8" 1970:
257 Roberts Ackley Improved, 22 inch barrel
87 gr., 50 gr 4895, 3808 fps

================================

My own load notes:
Sept 9 2003
257 Roberts Ackley Improved VZ24, Lother Walthar barrel 26", 75 gr. Vmax .257 bullets moly coated.

1) 49.4 gr. of IMR4895 at 3.4" with Sinclair bullet comparitor gives
3942 fps and the extractor cut grows .0035"

2) 48.3 gr. gives 3757 fps and the extractor groove grows .0005"

3) 47.2 gr. gives 3736 fps and no extractor groove growth

4) 45 gr. with OAL 3.5" w/ Sinclair nut gives3674, 3621, 3630, 3614,
3630 fps and a .46" group at 100m.

The 45 gr load is about 6% less than the threshold of the brass showing pressure signs. That is the safety margin that Vernon Speer wrote about in 1958.
===============================================

Looking at "Sierra 4th" 1995:
257 Roberts Ackley Improved, 75 gr, 24" barrel,
Max load 47.7 gr IMR4895, 3600 fsp
Accuaracy load: 46.4 gr IMR4895, 3500 fps

======================================
What do I conclude from this?
"Speer 8" is too hot.
"Sierra 4th" is just right

 

[P95Carry]

Hey Ala Dan!

I think first info I used way back was the hercules book ... to which I later added lee Edition #1 .... plus Vitavhuori's own loading data for those powders. Over time I added Lyman . and I am still using #47 right now . haven't upgraded that.

I got the Lee 2nd edition last year ... and also have an old Hornady somewhere.

As we all know (or should0 .. comparison is all but essential . that plus over time getting that ''gut feeling'' now and again . something seems odd and we check it out ....... no good for newbies that one tho .... which is why comparison is best way methinks.

Of course too ... late in the day . many of us have our ''pet'' loads .. and little need to develop new ones like we used to ... but still .. complacency is as much to avoided now as when we started.

Just a reminder to anyone who did not see it ... the warning about Hodgdon I posted other day ..... go check it out anyone if you ain't seen it yet.

http://www.thehighroad.org/showthread.php?threadid=63693

 

[Ala Dan]

Hello Again-

One thing we can all agree on is, that over time we have
sought out the best resources available to our devoted
hobby! Handloading like life, takes us in many general
directions; but it all comes together when we strive to
manufactuer ammuntion of the highest quality without
compromising safety.

Best Wishes,
Ala Dan, N.R.A. Life Member