Trying to co-witness w/red dot "aimpoint clone"

[poesraven]

Well, finally got the Ar15 back w/ a "z-type mount-some call it a scout mount/ trying to co-witness the reddot w/ the iron sights/ The Ar is M4 A1 carbine style-it sits about 1/2 to high and I've seen the handguards that have the picatiiny rails mouled on them but this isn't to good since they tend to rock/twist and that thros the dot off. ??? is there such a thing as a clamp that would go on the barrell then around the gas tube and have threads or insersts that would go through the holes in the hand guard that I could mount a piece of pic-rail on to mount the red-dot on so it would not move and set low enough to Co-witness"sorta the way the front site blade is mounted to the rail, I've put entirely too much in this Ar now :banghead: & I could have had a custom RR built or tried to get one of WA's A3 types for less. but I'm learning the hard way $$$$$

 

[MrMurphy]

A properly built rail interface system (RAS/RIS, SIR or Surefire M73) is free floated and rock solid, locked into the reciever. the Surefire can be found for around $100-150 i think, and is well worth it.

 

[Bartholomew Roberts]

I'm afraid I don't quite understand what you are trying to say. You have an AR15... carry handle or flattop? You are trying to mount a red dot of some type...on the handguards? What type of handguards?

You have an Aimpoint "clone". Who makes it? What model?

 

[poesraven]

Thank you both for the response. Its an ar15 a1 w/ the carry handle / the redot is a Hakko Tac1 - the trble is I purchased a scout mount/ some call it a z mount or gooseneck. Its an XTA-tactical mount by JohnMasen #1594 but the rail sets to high over the hand guards- it very thick. I kinda like it, it got rails on top of the handle as well as over the hand guards as well as on the side-**but the trouble is the rail over the hand guard is to high to allow the reddot to set low enough to co-witness. I was just trying to figure out if there was another way to mount a rail that would be secured onto the barrel and around the gas tube and go through the hand guard holes "these are just standard handguards"- to mount a thin picatinny or weaver rail to/ I've tried handguards w/ the rails molded in but they move ever so slightly which in turn thros off you point of impact, "won't hold zero", this is why I'm searching to see if there is a piece that would be secured to the barrel. Thanks again- Hope I didn't confuse you too much this time.......

 

[Valkman]

MrMurphy, I don't believe the Surefire rails are free-floating - called G&R Tactical to ask about this as I don't want to have to remove the barrel to install rails. He told me that the Surefire rails are a good system if I was not mounting optics on them because they're not free floating. I plan on getting them when G&R has them in stock since My EoTech is on the flattop.

poesraven, when it comes to all the options on mounting optics on Ar's it is very confusing. Ar-15.com has alot of info but that may not help the confusion! I'd do what I did and call someone like G&R Tactical - they are friendly and don't mind answering questions from us n00bs.

 

[poesraven]

Thanks Valkman, in the interm of my last post I recieved a call from a local gunshop that was also trying to help me out. He gave me the name of a machiner/smithy that may be able to machine the front of the gooseneck down and hopefully this may work unless the cost for the machining is $$$$, then its back to the ole ask and seek again. This is my 1st AR and I don't want the price to exceed that of one I could have had built custom. Its actually becomming a good winter project and hopefully by the time I'm done I'll know for the next time what I should and shouldn't buy. Its all learning and its fun- Gets the brain thinking, I think :banghead: thanks again, poes

 

[Shalako]

Is trying to get the red dot and the front sight to co-witness a good idea?

On my red dot set-ups, it would be too distracting and time consuming to try to line them up. Just sight, acquire, and fire. Just place the dot on the target and squeeze. Forget about the front sight if you are using optics.

All: please chime in if I am way off base here. I love red-dots but it seems like an either/or kind of deal when using them.

 

[Bartholomew Roberts]

The idea behind cowitnessing the front sight is not to line up your sights and the dot every time, it is to allow you to use your sights quickly if the red dot fails for some reason. On a range rifle, it is probably unnecessary unless you just want to be able to shoot irons without having to dismount your optics.

poesraven, both the ARMS #39 and the JP Rifles Bennie Cooley gooseneck should cowitness fine with a Tacpoint. The Bennie Cooley mount is adjustable and a pretty neat rig.

 

[Harry Tuttle]

http://www.yankeehillmachine.com/store/forearms.html

Carbine 2 Piece Handguard
$132.95
YHM-9670
This handguard is designed to replace your standard plastic handguard with our 4 rail picatinny design. Simply remove your existing handguard panels and insert these in their place. No gunsmithing required. They are made from lightweight aluminum and hardcoat anodized. The bottom rail removes easliy to accomodate accessories such as grenade launchers, flare launchers and shotguns.

 

[usp_fan]

The surefire rail system is not free floating, but it will not shift either. The DEA just spec'ed the surefire system for their carbine after testing for repeatability with the different rail systems on the carbines submitted for testing. Many brand were represented. As you can imagine, the surefire marketing department will be making hay out of this.

However, what is significant is that the system is easy to install and then lock in place. It uses a 2 peice HG design that installes just like your standard HG's. Then you use an allen wrench to tighten 2 bolts that create opposing force (forward and backwards) against the HG ring and cap. It's a pretty neat concept and seems to be a good solution for the money.

Poesraven: don't waste time with your gooseneck mount. It is not designed to co-witness an Aimpoint or similar optic. Return it if you can, and go for a good set of railed handguards--see above, or get a real aimpoint gooseneck. You can often find these on ebay or the AR15.com equiptment exchange for a resonable price. If you go the railed HG route, realize you will need a spacer or taller rings to co-witness your sight.

Hope that helps a little,

--usp_fan

 

[poesraven]

Thanks again for all the replies. 1st I'm going to see if the Smithy can machine what I have, He seemed interested in what I was trying to do. If that falls through I'm going to check out all the options that all of you suggested. This started out as an inexpensive buy, and 1st time Ar to learn what I can. AND LEARNING, " I AM".
w/ $$$$. Hopefully i have some $ left over to get more ammo to enjoy it at the range. Thanks Again

 

[HomerSimpson]

Here is my $.02. You need some kind of ring or mount regardless if it is mounted on the goose neck, forend, etc. So that cost doen't really change either way. So, I would suggest that you buy a stripped flat-top upper receiver (<$100), have your smith swap the barrel and components (if your handy and and can borrow the tools, you can do it yourself). Then sell the A1/A2 upper receiver ($75-$100). The net difference should be minimal.

Then select a ring or mount that will co-witness on the flat-top. Then the only remaining issue is the rear sight. There are numerous options, and a great range of prices. Problable the cheapest will be the Matech sight or a fixed rear BUIS from YHM. If you want to go for a flip-up rear BUIS, then you'll spend more.

Maybe this is more than you want to do, but the co-witness issue is very simple with a flat-top. Just my opinion, but unless you want to free-float the barrel anyway, go with a flat top.

 

[Valkman]

The surefire rail system is not free floating, but it will not shift either. The DEA just spec'ed the surefire system for their carbine after testing for repeatability with the different rail systems on the carbines submitted for testing. Many brand were represented. As you can imagine, the surefire marketing department will be making hay out of this.

Excellent info, thanks. Now I definitely want one. I was waiting for G&R to get them in stock but I may have to go somewhere else (maybe Surefire) since everyone seems to have the same price.