Trying to convert an anti

[Nazirite]

We have a summer intern who is attending Penn State University. Very intelligent young woman who has never been around a gun in her entire life. He mother is conservative but from what she tells me she doesn’t like guns. It really does not help when her mother saw one of their neighbors shooting at birds while cutting the grass on a tractor.
“ Kids playing in the yard next door.†I’m not sure how her father feels about guns.

We started discussing the Martha Stewart case and one thing lead to another, we got on the topic of guns. Basically we were on opposite ends of the spectrum. She wants all the guns confiscated while I want no gun laws at all except for violent criminals, people with metal problems, and the occasional moron we see at the range. She told me that if we get rid of all the guns than we won’t need any for self-defense. To this I replied “ they have outlawed drugs but tons of drugs enter the country every year.†We talked about the 2nd amendment but she would no budge. She does not believe that more guns equal less crime, I know there are plenty of statistics on the internet to support my claim but she wants to see hard evidence. She will not trust the pro-gun web pages so I’m going to try and find some FBI statistics. If any of you know any internet addresses which contain law enforcement data, let me know. We spoke on other topics but I was getting no ware.

I’ve been trying to get her out to the range, this has been a very difficult task. She is a somewhat (Maybe very) nervous person that gets really upset about going to the dentist and other things. I’m sure none of us like the dentist but we don’t start crying while were are at the dentist office either. I strongly believe there is a possibility she might go to the range, see said she would consider it. She has an open mind but also a strong fear of guns, probably based on family influences. Hopefully her mother and boyfriend will not talk her out of going to the range when she goes home this weekend. I’ll keep trying till she goes back to school in late August. :banghead:

 

[joab]

She told me that if we get rid of all the guns than we won’t need any for self-defense.

So is she saying that if guns were outlawed big burly men would stop raping smaller weaker women. And that baseball bats and hammers would suddenly lose their ability to kill or maim and knives would magically not be so pointy and sharp.
Or is it her theory that the mere presence of guns in a society emit some sort of evil aura that cause people to do bad things.

 

[Nazirite]

joab

I believe she is truly scared of them, other than that I really don’t know.

 

[Zundfolge]

She told me that if we get rid of all the guns than we won’t need any for self-defense.

Print this out and have her read it ... if she still believes that "getting rid of all the guns" is either 1) Possible and/or 2) A good idea then she's not worth arguing with as she's either too stupid or too stubborn to convert.


http://www.nationalreview.com/kopel/kopelprint120501.html

 

[Jim K]

Here is one approach.

Most of those people pride themselves on having an open mind and not being "biased". (They are biased as hell, of course, but they are hypocrites.) Anyway, challenge her. Ask how she can be prejudiced about something she knows nothing about. Ask if she would hate people of another race or color if she had never met anyone of that group. Ask her to come to the range just to watch. (Hope none of the crazies are there.)

If this works, and she does agree to go to the range, keep up the challenge. Try to get her to actually fire a gun. Try to go to an "informal" range, where she can shoot at breakable targets (e.g, clay pigeons, not glass) then bet she can't hit the target.

Please use a .22, not a big caliber pistol that will scare and frighten her with the weight, noise and recoil. The trigger pull should not be too light, though.

Don't get too heavy into the "lesson" mode. Keep things simple. I taught my daugher sight picture with the old "put the post in the hole, set the pumpkin on the post" lesson.

And DO watch her. I know one guy who was teaching his girlfriend to shoot with a High Standard Olympic, 1 1/2 pound pull. She fired one shot. Then she turned, pointed the gun right between his eyes, and said sweetly, "What do I do to make it shoot again?" He very gently and slowly pushed the gun aside, and it did not go off. When he told me the story, I politely refrained from asking about the state of his drawers at the time.

Jim

 

[Greg L]

people with metal problems

So people who like Glocks shouldn't be allowed to own a gun .

 

[Treylis]

Ignore statistics as much as possible and stick to the "don't you think that people should be able to own anything or do anything so long as it harms nobody but themselves or potentially other consenting adults?" argument. Statistics can always be scoffed at easily, moral arguments are a little harder to pull the same game with.

 

[Reno]

Print this out and have her read it ... if she still believes that "getting rid of all the guns" is either 1) Possible and/or 2) A good idea then she's not worth arguing with as she's either too stupid or too stubborn to convert.

Don't be so quick to judge on that. I used to be of the impression that although it's impossible to do, that hypothetcally if it could be done, it would be a neutral/good thing. Always liked guns, but just figured "hey, no guns, no one gets shot."

I'm now vehemently opposed to the very idea of that, and I came to the conclusion without any prodding from anyone, just reading and thinking.

 

[Standing Wolf]

Reasoning with hoplophobes is a lot like telling cats to stop unrolling the toilet paper and decorating the house with it.

 

[RNevill]

Unfortunately, I believe this falls under the category of "teaching a pig to dance." Don't bother.

 

[Big Mike]

Naz,

I'm sure she is an intellectual and will respect viewpoints if they are presented in a scientific and rationale way. I suggest you purchase for her John Lott's books, More Guns, Less Crime , and his new one, The Bias Against Guns . Many have criticisms of Lott, but he presents lots of light on a subject, rather than heat. After she reads those, direct her to watch Bowling for Columbine and maybe she can appreciate the distortions presented in that.

Another thing that may help, and I've seem many antis have a change of heart and lifestyle, have her volunteer at a juvenile detention facility or juvenile correctional facility, prison or jail. Maybe she can fold into her schooling and education a credit earning internship at one of Ohio's finest juvenile correctional facilities and see youth relatively peer age (I am assuming she is a young woman) and how dangerous certain people in our society really are. Maybe she can do a ride-along in a police cruiser for a night or spend a few hours sitting and listening in family court.

It seems to me her opinion is a matter of being uneducated in the manners in which certain people take law and libeties in their own hands and do massively destructive and dangerous things. I would hope she at the very least will concede to agree that there is a definite place in our society for tools people can use defend themselves, if not for a variety of other sporting uses. After all your efforts she may still not own or be comfortable with "guns" but she'll hopefully be educated and experienced and open to more.

A fellow line staff mine was born and raised in Ashland, OR (typically leftwing liberal town, expensive but beautiful) who after 3 years out of college asked me what type of shotgun she should get for her new home. I know she wouldn't have asked me that 3 years ago.

Good luck and continue to educate! Refer her to The High Road to ask any question she may have. It could be fun for her...

Mike

 

[ReadyontheRight]

Here's a gem I found somewhere on the internet -- maybe at TFL -- but I would like to post it here:

"Gun Control WILL reduce gun crimes... Here is how we do it. In cooperation with EVERY government in power we:

1. Confiscate firearms from all legal owners - including armies and police
2. Confiscate firearms from all criminals
3. Cease production of all arms and ammunition throughout the world
4. Kill all the scientists and engineers
5. Through a campaign of "re-education" all knowledge of pyrotechnics, and metallurgy will be removed from Earth's populace
5. Wait 450 years for all firearms to degrade to an unusable state
6. Allow the Human race to be overtaken by damn dirty apes

As you can see, in theory this gun control plan will abolish all gun crime in just a little more than 450 years... let me ask, is there any time too long to wait for our children's benefit?"

 

[TomSwift]

The John Stossel ABC News report is still on their website. "Myth #3 Guns Are Bad" can be found here....
ABC News Report - Myth #3 Guns Are Bad
Scroll down the page to find it. Maybe she will believe a liberal news report.

 

[buy guns]

ENGLAND

 

[liane]

converting an anti

This is my first post - I looked around for a place to introduce myself, but haven't found it yet. So hello everybody!

I'm replying now because I used to be an anti. In a big way. I'm originally from the south, and my father and his family had guns (rifles, pistols they hunt and also kept guns for personal protection), but I never used them, and I had recurring nightmares about them (guns, that is). I never even struck a match until I was eighteen. I had an overprotective mother, and I was a very good or is that scaredy-cat girl.

But, I always thought, the best thing was to ban all guns. You always read how your own guns are used against you, and the tragedies that happen when kids get ahold of them, etc. You never read about people who have them, use them right, and nothing bad happens, so you never think about that.


Then one day a few years ago, a friend took me to a range. I was good at shooting the targets (the paper bulls-eye), and loved it. I still have my targets from that day. So on one hand, there was the personal pride, as well as respecting how much technique is involved - since I did miss the center a few times! And .22's are easier than .45s - I agree that this is the way to start, at least for me it is, since I'm small.

A little while ago, this friend took me to a range again, and since I don't know anyone else who is a gunowner, this time I really paid attention to everything he did. Because one day I would love to own a gun and go to the ranges myself.

So I watched him before we even left his house, as he cleaned and prepped them, since it will be a while before I can own a gun. There's a lot involved, not only in terms of the expense of buying guns and ammo, but also taking lessons, learning about the mechanism involved, being able to clean and maintain a gun, etc., etc., and I don't have the money now, and even if I did, I know that don't know enough YET to feel safe having one in my house - because in my case, it would be used against me!

So I'm trying to at least soak up some knowledge now from you all, as much as you can learn by reading, which I know is not much - all I know is to keep the gun pointing down range and away from other people, how to load a cartridge, and about the safety.

Anyway, before this becomes a novel, I learned that there is a big difference between some criminal on the street, or any of those other "statistics" and a responsible gun owner. (Like owning a car without knowing how to drive, or without a license.) I learned a lot from those two trips to the range - I respect people who have them responsibly, and now I'm not an anti anymore. And believe it or not, I'm a LIBERAL anti, who believes in the right to bear arms now!

So I hope she goes to the range with you. And sees what it means when someone who knows how to handle guns responsibly. (Maybe she should also see you as you get everything ready, so it doesn't look as if all you do is take a gun and shoot it - it is a good lesson to see the prep work too.)

 

[Zundfolge]

ReadyontheRight, there's a flaw with your plan ... whats to stop the apes from making guns?


EDIT
Jeebus ... where are my manners?!

Welcome to The High Road liane.

I'm trying to at least soak up some knowledge now from you all

Well you've come to the right place. Tons of stuff to be learned here about all aspects of firearms; from politics to mechanics to technique to accessories.

Lots of knowledgeable folk here (and most of us are pretty friendly too)

 

[buy guns]

Liane welcome to the board. it is always nice to hear about people who have "seen the light".

spend time on here everyday and you will learn alot, not only the technical stuff about guns but also the political side to them.

 

[Telperion]

Welcome to THR liane! Glad to hear you're on the path to becoming a safe shooter. Come out to our bay area THR shoots, hopefully we'll have another by the end of summer. You'll learn a lot in a hurry!

 

[Edmond]

I laugh when I hear you guys use that term "anti." The term anti makes em' sound like a bunch of commies!

 

[Tharg]

Edmond,

In a way they are... gun control is just like any other kind of control, its about making people do what "X" (be they anti's, prohibitionists, prolifers, etc etc) think is right.

They don't take someone elses view into that evaluation. Just that they must be right, so thier right is to make us all conform.

Vs. people who think that they have the RIGHT to do those things. Be it own a firearm, have an abortion, drink booze... WHATEVER so long as it does not impinge on another persons liberties. (and once again - those people's liberties already have laws - from robbery to murder)

I realize that pro life/choice is a bad argument since the majority of it revolves around when a baby "is" a person. (which i'd argue that since there isn't a name, a social sec # or a birth certificate, and its dependent on its mothers bio-systems; is when its born - but thats neither here nor there)

Most "gun owners" i know could care less if someone else doesn't like em and won't own one - just quit trying to make everyone else believe that no one should have em because they don't. (aka - commies - who think that no one needs too much of anything and that it should all be spread for the good of everyone, and you will only be allowed what the govt. thinks is good for you <unless of course you are the elite... then you are special - heh>)

J/Tharg!

EDIT: i wish for like a week - there could be a law that said that cars are illegal since they cause too many deaths - and there really is no reason you NEED to travel that far anyway (just law enforcement since there are only so many of them so they need to be able to go far places quickly)... ride yer bike to work and live closer. (rofl) Just to see the uproar, then repeal the law... and go "SEEEE!!!" <duh>

heh

 

[gewehr44]

Hmmm, surprised nobody mentioned Gun facts. There's a PDF document at this site that covers most anti's arguments & refutes them with facts & includes links so you can find the facts yourself. I keep a printed copy in my car!!

http://www.gunfacts.info/

 

[Henry Bowman]

Remember: You don't have to turn her into a shooter to simply reverse her anti-liberty position. If she'll go to the range, great. But she sounds like an emotional toothpick who is skittish. Just work on showing her how imposing her beliefs on others may or will cause harm to the others. She doesn't have to own a gun or be a shooter to respect the rights of others. Right now she is under the misconception that it is OK to impose her irrational fear on others (bigotry) because doing so will increase the safety of her and others. While it's true that we must sometimes give up some of our safety to preserve our rights, in this case the "decreasing safety" is an unfounded misconception.

In other words, work on her from an emotional level. Use her fragility to your advantage (an untimately to the advantage of more liberty for all).

 

[Baba Louie]

Naz,
You can overwhelm the young lady with facts, statistics and logic yet without an open mind, 'twill be to no avail.
Certainly if we lived in a world wthout firearms there would be less death, destruction and mayhem due to firearms... but we'd just shift to rocks or sticks, rope or poison, feet or fists. Evil lurks all around us, and to paraphrase a Col Cooper quote, an unarmed man can run from evil but cannot stop evil in it's tracks.
Teach her the four rules of firearm safety. Attend a "Refuse to be a Victim" seminar with the young lady (and perhaps some other females from your office).
Leave her thinking about JFPO's numbers on 20th century Gov't genocide of unarmed populace(s) throughtout the world.
Invite her to go plinking again, then move on to another topic of discussion.

liane, welcome and (if I may say) great first post.

So I'm trying to at least soak up some knowledge now from you all, as much as you can learn by reading, which I know is not much...

I disagree with that sentiment. One can learn a lot by reading. One learns more by doing, but having a sound basis is always wise and denotes an intelligent mind. In the upper right corner of THR pages, you'll find "Library". Click on it and continue your education.
Ask questions! People here love to share and discuss their hobby/love. Take a class or two by an NRA certified instructor.

Keep up the good work Naz, liane, et al.

 

[boofus]

Didn't the damn dirty apes have bandits and outlaws too? Gun control still didn't stop crime, even in Hollyweird.

 

[deadmeat]

what gets me is the people that say they are liberal gun lovers. No matter what you say, when you vote for liberal polititians, you are giving away your rights. JMHO!