Trying to decide: Lee Classic Press or RCBS Rock Chucker

[Rudolf the Red]

My Rock Chucker was purchased in 1993 and has been mounted to a portable bench purchased from Midway the entire time. Always in the garage. I even brought it to Burning Man last year to make .30-06 necklaces. It got really dirty in the desert but cleaned up nicely. Despite some spots of corrosion, and a lack of use and upkeep, it worked like new last week when I loaded up 100 .45 ACP for a postal match. Solid as a rock. I do use Lee dies, however. Cheaper, and I love that free shellholder and powder scoop.

 

[vmfrantz]

Saw this post before going to cabelas yesterday. Beings they have lyman, rcbs, lee, foster single stage presses mounted I had to give them a try. I will have to say that the foster felt the best and had the best feel. And the Lee classic was second. I will also say I was in dismay at the movement and play in the rcbs and the lyman. I even had my 13 year old daughter try it. She had the same results as I did. I know that I would now get a lee classic cast press when I get a press. It is a real solid press.

 

[Kamicosmos]

Anybody have definitive proof that RCBS actually is having the presses cast/made/whatever in China? I'm at work right now, but when I get home I'll check out my Turret Press. I just bought it a couple years ago, so if it was made in China, the box or press might indicate that. I'm also going to email RCBS about it. I really don't want to see them get associated with China-manufacture unless it's true. Internet Rumors spread like wildfire and are harder to put out once they get a foothold...

Otherwise, my contribution to the thread is: The Lee Cast stuff is awesome! Otherwise, RCBS is the way to go. I have both a Special 5 and a green Turret Press on my Bench.

 

[Liberty4Ever]

I'd like to know whether the RCBS presses are being cast in China. It's very common to buy castings from China, because casting is a dirty and labor intensive manufacturing process. Lately, it's been popular to simply outsource the entire manufacturing operation.

I agree that internet rumors get started, and they tend to perpetuate, regardless of whether they're true or not. It'd be very good to verify this story before it spreads.

If true, I think reloaders will not be sympathetic to RCBS. It may have looked good on paper, but at a time when Lee is making the very fine Classic Cast press and Classic Turret press at such attractive prices, outsourcing might have looked like a way to be more competitive, but I think not fully considering the quality issues and marketing issues related to outsourcing would be a huge mistake for RCBS.

This may take some investigative work. It's not the sort of thing RCBS is going to proudly admit. Many companies will say "Made In The USA" when the truth is "Assembled In The USA From Foreign Made Components And Subassemblies". The red, white & blue Made In The USA label hides the fact that 90% of the labor was overseas.

 

[Kamicosmos]

I emailed RCBS with this:
------------
Hello,

I have been using RCBS presses and other products ever since I got started reloading over 12 years ago. I currently use a Turret Press and a Special 5 single stage.

I saw a rumor on the internet recently. It suggested that RCBS presses are now being cast in China. The internet can spread rumors faster than wildfire, and they are hard to put out once they get a foothold. As a loyal RCBS customer, I was hoping you could shed some light on this rumor. I really hope that RCBS is not outsourcing manufacture or components to China, or elswhere outside of the United States.

Thank you for your time and great products!
----------------------

Hopefully they get back to me soon with a good answer.

I looked at my Turret Press box, and it has this line on the bottom:
Made in USA - Fabrique Aux E.U.
According to bable fish, the french bit is 'Manufacture with E.U.' I assume that means assembled in the E.U.? Well, I suppose that's a little better than China or Mexico... we'll just have to see what RCBS says.

 

[Car Knocker]

the french bit is 'Manufacture with E.U.' I assume that means assembled in the E.U.? Well, I suppose that's a little better than China or Mexico...

If my long-disused French is still with me, E. U. stands for Etats Unis, which translates to "United States". That would correspond to the "Made in USA" you noted.

 

[Liberty4Ever]

If EU means both "United States" and "European Union", that is VERY confusing. But it would explain why the box said "Made in USA - Fabrique Aux E.U.". I thought maybe they were using the same box and manufacturing in the US for US markets and in Europe for European markets. A box that said "Made in USA" and "Manufactured in the European Union" would be weird. Manufacturing in the destination countries avoids tarrifs and is not uncommon.

 

[Matt-man]

I think a French abbreviation for European Union would be UE, since in that language the adjectives come after the noun: Union Européenne.

The RCBS boxes that are marked in English and French are probably intended to cover the US and Canada, since there are parts of Canada where French is very common.

 

[Kamicosmos]

Response from RCBS

Well, here's what RCBS responded to me with. Vague, but I kind of expected that. (I cut out the email addresses for spam/abuse prevention.)

----- Original Message ----
From: rcbs tech
To: kamicosmos
Sent: Wednesday, January 3, 2007 6:16:36 PM
Subject: RE: rcbs.com - Ask RCBS Form

Thank you for contacting RCBS with your concern. Most of our products
are still produced right here in our factory in Oroville CA. However,
we do purchase some items from China or other countries around the
world. Any items we source outside of our operation are closely
monitored to insure they meet our quality expectations. The only reason
we choose certain items to be produced over seas is to provide our
customers with the best possible products for the lowest possible cost,
or in other words, to give you the best value for your hard earned
dollars.

It is important for us to here from our customers and we appreciate you
taking the time to provide us with your input.

-----Original Message-----

 

[DaveInFloweryBranchGA]

Sounds like a yes to me. At the very least, they're admitting outsourcing of some products, they don't specify what. I'd be curious to see the response of outfits like Lee on this one.

 

[Liberty4Ever]

I'd be curious to see the response of outfits like Lee on this one.

Pro:
Reloaders are probably even more upset about outsourcing than most Americans, so more reloaders will buy a $65 Lee Classic Cast Press that is 100% made in the USA, instead of a $115 RCBS RockChucker Supreme that was made in China.


Con:
It'll take the Chinese about a year of making the RockChucker before they decide to cut out the middle man. After that, Lee will be competing directly with the Wang Fu Chucker without the RCBS markup on the Chinese labor.

 

[azredhawk44]

Con:
It'll take the Chinese about a year of making the RockChucker before they decide to cut out the middle man. After that, Lee will be competing directly with the Wang Fu Chucker without the RCBS markup on the Chinese labor.

LMAO

I've got a new RC Supreme, but I wasn't aware that RCBS was in bed with China. Would've gone Lee otherwise.

I wore out my RCBS partner press by resizing .308, .30-30 and .44magnum loads in that tiny little guy. Broke the base, snapped her good. Got the partner press replaced for free, but bought a RC Supreme out of brand loyalty. Now I have 2 single stage presses that are Chicom-made.

Oh, well. I will go Lee when I finally bite the bullet and go progressive.

Original Poster: take heed. I broke a press by resizing too large a caliber in a smaller, light duty press. Sounds like both your choices are big guys, but keep them in that grade of press. You'll be very happy if you do.

 

[warriorsociologist]

FWIW, I was facing this same choice a while back - but then came across a sale on a redding T-7 w/ extra turret. I also still have a Lee hand press for depriming in front of the TV. I like the Redding, but was planning to pick up the RC Supreme before finding it. Interestingly, most of my dies are Lee collet dies though - with a few Redding ones where they offer some advantage (like when reloading 7.5x55 for the K-31). The Lee Cast and the RC-S are both great presses.

 

[ranger335v]

Not meaning to flame anyone but... I've been into loading for some 42 years. Used a lot of presses of various friends, own a few and know of quite a few more. The determined loyalty to big green has always amused me. I have never heard of anyone with any cast iron press having a failure or wearing it out. (Loose yes, but worn out, no.) After all, presses are very simple devices and the few moving parts move very slow. An occasional drop of oil will keep things moving far longer than any of us will care, and the color don't matter.

A compound leverage, cast iron press from any maker; Lee, RCBS, Hornady, Lyman, Redding, Bonaza, etc. is fully as good as any of the others. But no better. Sure, the early Lee presses were all aluminum alloy and could be broken by ham-fisted users but that was more their fault than the tool's and I'm only addressing iron presses. And big green makes an alum press too, so where does that mindless loyalty end? Remember, I'm only talking about iron here, guys.

The features of individual tools determine what I keep and use, not the color. My 20 year old RockChucker II has a lousy primer system. The poor primer "catcher" drops half the spent caps onto the floor and the ones it does catch get trapped under the priming arm to eventually lock it up until I dig the offender out. I finally gave up on the RC for any part of priming work, now use a little Lee "Reloader" press and universal decap die to take them out and a Lee "AutoPrime" tool to put them back. But I grant that the RC is as strong as any other.

Sure, my RC is over kill for strength and will last a long time but that's also true with my 42 year old Lyman "Spar-T" turret. So too with my buddies Lyman "Orange Crusher" and Redding "Big Boss". Etc. They are all good, it mostly depends on what features each of us like and need. Or maybe how much we need to spend to bolster our confidence in our tools.

I think the new RC "Supreme" was produced in reaction to the new Lee "Classic Cast" press. Both are big, strong presses! But, being honest, if there was a test for the "strongest" currently produced single stage iron press, the Redding "UltraMag" would win. The Lee "Classic Cast" and Foster/Bonanza "Co-Ax" would tie for second strongest. (And the Lee has a great ajustable lever and good primer catcher system, at less than one third the cost of a Co-Ax.) All the other presses would tie for third place. So what? Each one is far stronger than it need be and will last far longer than it will need to.

A press is likely the least important factor in accuracy reloading, far behind good technique, good components and good methods. The only press that has an edge for accuracy reloading is the "Co-Ax". All the others are tied for a close second place.

I like my RC and other RCBS tools for what they are but no inamimate object is worth my undying loyalty, no matter its color or logo. My hard earned money goes to whom ever gives me the best balance of utility, features AND price. In presses today, that's the Lee.

All in my humble opinon, of course!