Trying to get the best axe I can

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Would never discourage any object as not being a potential weapon that is the moment you could loose the fight.

I can for the most part guarantee given the chance in a fight with a good hammer like a 20 ounce estwing hammer sided hit crush a human skull, and if not kill end that persons life as they once knew it. Secondly someone standing there with a claw hammer in hand is going to discourage most criminals.

I grew up on a farm and used to walk into a pig pen with a large hammer and knock out if not kill them with one strike. I could sink the the hammer to the shaft. It takes determination and the will to follow through with the strike. It was the least traumatic for the other pigs since the hardly even noticed what had just happened.

I just would say if using a hammer as self defense get one with a rubber handle. Also the Estwings handle shaft alone would injure due to its thin shape.

Personally knowing how to disarm an attacker is your best weapon its at hand when you need it!
 
The problem is, the person attacking you will not be waiting for you to hit them on the cranium. They are not a pig for slaughter. They are by definition trying to kill you with arms presumably carrying at least some kind of weapon. That means getting a square hit on the noggen is going to be very difficult. You might get lucky, or you might just land a blow to the face, side of the head, arm, or hand that does nothing to keep them from ending your life.

And there's a more fundamental problem. We are designed to take tremendous impacts from blunt forces. We have layers of tissue and bone all able to tolerate enormous loads of ft. lbs. and not break. When they do give way and break, the body can still function. It's really actually amazing. What we are not designed to take are massive cuts and lacerations that penetrate into the tissue. So a bullet, spear or arrow delivering ft. lbs. we could easily absorb will drop us like a sack of spuds if delivered to the key parts of the torso or head.

Relying on a blunt instrument to defend against a live, large and violent attacker runs headlong into that problem.
 
What about a small shovel? Pictured is a Cold Steel Special Forces shovel. It cuts through roots, digs well, and I have stuck it in a tree stump. Deep.

I have read that entrenching tools were used as weapons in WWI. The first time I read it, was in the novel "All Quiet on the Western Front". The author had been an infantry man, and in the book one of the characters claims the small shovel would not jam. The author might have learned that in real life. Heard, on the tube, a Russian Vet of WWII describe hitting Germans with the edge of his shovel. The translator said something like "it took all the fight out of them."

And, mine is a great gardening tool. Use it all the time.


csstoreonline_2013_4975359
 
The entrenching shovel is not a bad idea actually one of the best i have heard besides mine of course... haha
The spetsnaz use something similar i think it is called a shapierka? or shapiro?
 
I have to agree. While an axe is a formidable weapon and few things can stand in the way of it. I would hesitate to grab it as a first line of defense because of its low second strike capability. It will be to heavy to hit a moving target accurately to stop an aggressive attacker. You need something that can deliver enough energy to stop an attacker and be light enough to swing multiple times if necessary. Ex. baseball bat, 2foot 1/2 diameter pipe, claw hammer, fire poker, light crowbar, cold steel shovel, and a nice .45 acp.
 
If you go with the axe, I would stay away from a double bit model. if there is a struggle for the axe, your just as likely to injure yourself as your assailant. Also keep in mind an axe blade is designed for chopping a solid, uniform surface, and to create a area to remove more material with the next swing.

Humans are not a nice neat uniform material, and we don't chip away when struck with an axe. You should be looking for immediate incapacitation; and that means penetration.

If your stuck on an axe, a well made tomahawk is a much better tool. The smaller and lighter blade equals better penetration, and the handle being shorter and lighter is quicker and easier to swing for a second stroke. Again as with the double bit axe, spikes on a 'hawk look cool, but can do as much damage to yourself as they do to the bad guy without a lot of training.
 
Lots of good suggestions but keep it simple .. Dead blow hammer cheap plastic filled with lead shot and a cane with a ice spike walking tip poke'm in the leg with the cane , when there distracted whail away with the hammer any where it hits will break bones. Most importantly evertime you hit them yell out stop dont hit me. your neihbours will tell gut wrenching stories of how your fended off a gang of axe murders while they cower behind there triple locked doors
 
Order a tomahawk and bowie knife. Those two together are very decent weapons in concert. Light, fast, agile and one sets up the other.
 
Axes, etc...

Re: grind of an axe: As one who has actually used a DB axe in the woods, lopping and clearing, and was pretty good with it if I do say so myself, I always sharpened both edges the same: RAZOR. It's a cutting instrument, so make it as able to cut as possible. Behind the edge you want the blade as slim as strength allows, for wood penetration. Worked for me anyhow. The second edge was for the afternoon's work; that way you didn't have to stop to sharpen up until the end of the day. My outfit supplied axes, but I had my own 36" Plumb Dreadnaught, with a 2 1/2# head.

Having one edge of a DB axe ground for splitting, i.e. relatively thick and dull, defeats the whole purpose of having the 2 edges available on the one tool. You don't normally split firewood while using a DB axe, and a DB is too slim and delicate for good splitting, anyhow. So, no need for a splitting-ground edge. (A firewood axe, made for splitting, will be a single-bit with a much heavier-built head. And for serious all-day splitting, you want a splitting maul and wedges, not any form of axe.)

Now, as to using an axe for SD, firstly, a DB axe is a very specialized tool that takes constant practice to use safely and well. In the hands of an experienced woods worker it is great, but in the hands of an unpracticed tyro it is just an accident waiting to happen. And there is no "safe" carry position for a DB axe.

Secondly, as has been pointed out, an axe requires a considerable swing to use--awkward at best in an apartment hall. And the cutting edge is facing wrong for the axe to be used as a thrusting or poking weapon. And if you turn it around so the edge is right, then the handle will get in the way, AND, there is also another edge facing back at you.

Bottom line on a DB axe for SD: While I would rule out no item as a weapon in a desperate situation, a planned SD item, especially for within an apartment, should be shorter, lighter, less demanding of practice, and easier to swing and stab with. Pry bar might be perfect; depends on your ability to wield it. I agree with the idea of using an "ordinary household item."
 
Axes may be good in open spaces, but in apartments it seems they may get stuck in the wall, furniture, and be too unweildy to swing.

A short staff or smaller aluminum ball bat (club) or a framing hammer may be a better weapon for home defense in such a situation.

I have an Estwing combo that has a hammer on one side and an axe on the other that I take for camping. It's fantastic.
 
I recall reading somewhere that a double-bit ax should have each cutting area ground &/or sharpened differently:eek:ne for actual cutting & the other as a 'wedge' for chipping/clearing the cut. Anyone know about this? Possible sources of info? Thanks.
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You are correct. For a functional wood cutting device, this is how it's done.
I'm a primary source for this info since I've owned and operated both a tree service and a business that restores log cabins using authentic tools and methods. And, I continue to engage in woodwork using handled sharp instruments. I may even start competing in lumberjack competitions this year.
Ammo costs less than IDPA. :)

I keep a smatchet and a tomahawk by my bed with my Dan Wesson 357. I live in a condo, as well.

However, I will say that if you aren't familiar how to wield an axe and can't do it in the dark with your eyes shut, you likely won't do great with it in a panic situation. Having the blade off angle even a bit can cause it to glance off bone. And, hitting the wrong spot of the anatomy of a human can result in it being stuck or wedged. Then, what are you going to do when the reporters from the times are following you around asking questions?
You'll be the psycho with the axe, rather than a guy defending himself.
Remember, you aren't in normalville.

You should also ponder what kind of person will see a homeowner with an axe and keep coming so that you have to use it. The world has some salty hombres walking around in it. You might win the lottery and get one as an intruder.
 
This business of advising people to use BALL PEEN HAMMERS and BASEBALL BATS to defend life is absolutely absurd and unrealistic.
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Rubbish. I like large weapons, and used to train *every day* with a 7' staff (in an apartment with 8' ceilings), but a good hammer is a deadly weapon, and probably more useful to most people who don't use one daily than an ax.

As with any other defensive tool, knowledge will help. You don't just shoot "at" a threat, you shoot for center of mass or a CNS shot. Same thing with any blunt tool: you wouldn't just swing it "at" a threat, you would aim for a vulnerable limb or the areas on the head most susceptible to blunt force trauma.

John
 
I am a Forest Ranger and have used axes and crosscut saws of all descriptions my entire 30 year career. I will confine my comment to the axe, since that is what you asked about and it is what I would likely have to use if my life were threatened on the job in the woods. We don't get to carry guns and I am too close to retirement to take the risk of getting fired. So I have thought about the axe as a weapon a lot and I will share my thoughts.

I wouldn't choose a double bit or any axe with a long handle. You won't need or even want the power of a long handle or the mass of a heavy head. It is too hard with these to get in a quick second or third blow. You need something that you can wield accurately, putting the edge right where you want it. In a word, controllability. And the ability to strike very, very quickly again and again. A long handled axe with a heavy head just won't do that. Try attacking a stack of hay bales and you will see. The exceptional power of a full size axe isn't needed for combat. An axe with a short handle and a light head is best when you are working in close quarters. I have no doubt that it is superior for fighting in close quarters. I have carried one kind or another of a light axe for years. It won't take two handed swinging power to really mess someone up with one. You are not cutting wood, but flesh. I suppose a short double edged sword might be considered a weapon in your context, and that would be my first non-firearm choice if I were in your shoes. A belt axe would be my second choice.

A double edged axe would be more of a hindrance rather than a help, I would think. The tomahawk was used by both the Eastern Tribes and light belt axes by the 18th century white American militia and was quite a formidable weapon at close quarters. Rogers Rangers, the first American "commandos" carried light belt axes and light thin-bladed butcher knives to back up their flintlocks when the fighting went hand to hand. They could have carried swords, pistols, bayonets or other weapons, but they didn't.

Most of the hawks I have seen these days seem a bit light and the handles too skinny in diameter. They appear to be made for throwing or looking cool in the belt of the Re-enactor and aren't much good for work. Most lack a poll, which might be useful in a fight as a bludgeon. Most also lack a decent deer's foot on the end, which is essential for retention, especially when wet with water or blood. I would also drill a hole in the end of the handle and attach a thong. The thong goes around the thumb and over the top of the hand and back over the wrist-bone to the handle. It does not go around the wrist. That would also help a lot with retention.

I would want a head weight of about a pound and definitely no more than a pound and a half and a handle somewhat longer than a typical hatchet handle. You won't likely be able to accurately wield 3 and a half pound head that the typical full size axe weighs with a short handle. The two and a half pounder boy's or cruiser axe is also a tad hefty, I think for a short handle.

Typical hardware store hatchets are very poorly balanced, IMO, and good only for pounding plastic stakes. You mentioned the GB brand, so I assume you can afford it. In this line, consider their "Wildlife Hatchet". I carry one nearly every day either in my pack on in the back pocket of my cruiser's vest. Well balanced and easy to use with accuracy when cutting springy brush with one hand. The handle is the right length and a good compromise between compactness and power for one handed work. Best light axe I have ever had. The steel is superior and that is what you are really paying for, even though it is not necessary for the axe as weapon. I really don't think you will need to grind down the cheeks much (the "hollow grind" you referred to). In fact, I wouldn't grind it at all but use a file to shape the cheek profile. But it must be sharp enough to slice thin ribbons from a piece of writing paper to work well.

As another mentioned, you must gain proficiency in its use for it to be even useful, let alone be effective in preserving your life.
 
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An axe is actually a good choice. A heavy axe with a good handle will bludgeon just like a baseball bat but it can also cut and cleave. And while a person may be willing to try to step inside of a baseball bat to avoid it, they're not likely to try that with an axe because the momentum can still bring it into their back. The axe's weighted end will cause it instead to curve around any pivot point and strike hard, and either the blade or the bludgeoning will cause some serious pain and damage. All I can say is, make sure you don't miss when you swing, though. The weighted end means a longer recovery time, so you leave yourself open for a couple of seconds if you miss completely.
 
I have an Estwing combo that has a hammer on one side and an axe on the other
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Estwing also makes a good axe, about 3/4 size, if I recall correctly. I like those, with the solid construction. Also, the handle is shaped somewhat like a blade, narrow cross section and all that. Not too shabby.

But my first piece of advice is

MOVE OUT, Anthony.
 
A Cold Steel Rifleman's Tomahawk is the best defensive 'hawk going...I carried mine in Iraq on a daily basis with a Civil Affairs unit. When you enter a room to discuss trading a 100 K. generator for 5-6 "wanted" poster candidates and you walk in with an M-4, a CS Recon Scout and that tomahawk...ALL eyes were on the hawk. All you had to do was place it on the floor next to you as you sat down to wheel and deal. People were suddenly much friendlier.
But for a full blown axe...I like the Gerber/Fiskars axes. Very light weight and fast in the hands. Also razor sharp right from the start.
 
Awwwww... I was soooo hoping to be the first to suggest the Spetsnatz shovel. :uhoh:

I grew up flinging tomahawks, and last time I tried it I was still pretty handy.

Paul Chen and Hanwei make some neat 'belt axe'/tomahawk style tools as does Cold Steel. None are particularly expensive.

I kind of like this style

http://www.kultofathena.com/product~item~XNH53~name~Viking+Bearded+Axe.htm

or the classic:

http://www.weaponmasters.com/shopping/Cold-Steel-Riflemans-Hawk-p-16224.html sort of a hatchet and ball been hammer all in one.

Can you call either a fire axe? Prolly not. I'd bet BOTH are restricted shipping to your address.

Having some kind of plan trumps reaching for a vegetable peeler when it all goes south. But if you are limited to kitchenware, buy a nice havy cleaver and mince a whole bunch of herbs with it before practicing chopping phone books in half... heck you might even learn to cook!
 
custom work

"PhDRob:"

Since the Rifleman's Hawk has no "deer's foot" or swelling at the end,
get out your checkering tools and go to work on the gripping end of that
axe. You didn't state you had one, but Ajax22 would benefit from the increased grip; should he obtain one.

Also, some one here recommended drilling and inserting a thong for a tether, which would be another good idea.

"Sig 226 -40:"
Your post, though serious, just reminds me of some old frontier movie I would watch as a kid. In the fifties! Some brave scout would enter an Indian village for parle or trade, and would have his "hawk" in his belt. Like "Last of the Mohicans."
I never wore one in VN, but did go in and out of the villages, and think such an item may have had an influence as you describe. I never ran out of my own ammo, but, many around me did. They could have been reassured with
such a weapon; that never gets depleted.
 
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