TSA delay at airport.

[Ranb]

I flew to Vegas yesterday to attend my niece’s graduation. I took several silencers with to test as I can not use them in WA. This is the not the first time I had traveled with title 2 weapons, but it was my first trip with them on US Airways. Everything went the same as usual, until I heard my name being called over the public address system requesting I return to the US Airways ticket counter. Upon returning to the ticket counter I was asked to go back to the TSA counter as they had issues with my firearms.

An armed airport security guard walked with me to the TSA where I found four TSA employees looking over my opened gun case. They had unlocked it while I was at the gate. It seems that the TSA did not figure out I had silencers in the gun case until after I left. This had never been an issue before when the TSA had examined my stuff. The first inspection had been a thorough one, so I’m not sure how he could have missed four tubes that could only be silencers.

The airport security guard asked if I had proof of registration; I showed him the form 1’s and it seemed to satisfy him although I could not tell if he knew what he was looking at. The Security guard just told TSA the forms were good enough and they took his word for it. Serial numbers were not checked, but they did note that that I had an AR-15 and a Savage bolt gun. They did not seem to notice the two disassembled pistols.

They also asked for ID. I produced my military retired ID card and this prompted “Are they military weapons?” I told them that they were privately owned and made by myself. One of the TSA suggested that I pack copes of the ATF form 1’s with the gun case, I told them the forms were confidential tax forms and I was not willing to do so. I ended up showing them my WA driver’s license also.

When I asked if this was something new (asking for ATF forms), they said it was something they always did. When I told them the TSA employees that processed United and NWA luggage never asked for proof of registration, they said they should have.

How often do you guys get asked for your ATF form 1’s or 4’s? Should I be making an issue of them opening my gun case while I was not present? I want to make an issue of it, but I have not read any TSA regulations that require the owner be present for opening luggage.

Ranb

 

[danprkr]

As bureaucratic as they are, and as little thought for our rights as went into the Patriot Act I seriously doubt they did anything out of policy. Doesn't make it morally right, but it was probably legal. But, since I don't deal with these weapons I can't say for sure.

 

[thorazine]

So you can manufacturer and possess in WA but you cannot use them in WA?

 

[mp510]

So you can manufacturer and possess in WA but you cannot use them in WA?

Buy, sell, make, own in Washington is fine. You just can't use them in state. They have had some legislative efforts to correct that, but none have been successful yet.

 

[Ranb]

So you can manufacturer and possess in WA but you cannot use them in WA?

Sad but true. MG, SBS, SBR were made contraband in 1994, I think they just forgot that silencer possession was legal. Only those MG/SBS/SBR in the state legally since 94 are allowed now, unless you are a SOT class 2. Most of the Reps I write to are not concerned about the ban on use.

My new 308 can sounded very nice on my Savage even though I made it overbored for my 338 RUM and is rather heavy.

Ranb

 

[allank]

How had they unlocked your gun case without you present? I've not traveled with firearms yet, but I understood that you should retain the key.

 

[Ranb]

I had the key with me. The simple locks on the case can be opened with a screwdriver if done right.

Ranb

 

[Sapper771]

I have never travelled with title weapons before, but I have travelled with pistols. What I can tell you is it is a new experience every single time I do it. I do not enjoy dealing with some TSA security agents. It seems like they make some stuff up as they go along. I have started travelling with TSA rules and regs with me so I can show the TSA security guards that I am within the law, as most of the time they tell me that I cant do something that their regs say I can.
It is a big hassle most of the time, but it is worth it if you like having your carry weapon with you while your out in the tall corn.
I have had TSA guards threaten to "slice my luggage to pieces" because I had a pistol in there.(NOTE* this was after I had already claimed the firearm, filled out the tag, and let the TSA agent inspect the firearm, case, and locks).

 

[grimjaw]

Hrm.

IIRC, there's nothing that says that they (TSA, cops, etc) can retain the key to your case(s), and they don't really have resources to do so anyway. Can you imagine trying to keep track of all those different sets of keys on the non-TSA type locks? Nightmarish.

So if you didn't give them a copy of your keys and the case had been locked after your inspection, sounds like someone either flagged you during the inspection but notified lawdogs after the fact ("I'm gonna catch a terrorist!"), or some scan later in the process raised somebody's flag. If it was locked they picked it. I don't know how legal that is, or even smart. If they were concerned it was dangerous, why not call the bomb squad?

Maybe it was a slow airport security day and they decided to waste everyone's time and money.

Sounds like you were polite and professional about it, more so than I probably would have been. Lucky me I don't have to fly for work now.

Hopefully someone with more knowledge about who exactly can paw on your form 1/4 stuff when it's out of your possession will chime in.

jm

 

[TheFallGuy]

I don't think they did anything illegal. That wasn't cool though, searching without you present. IIRC, in court houses, border crossings and airports LEOs don't need much if any cause to search. I would think the same goes for TSAs.

 

[SCKimberFan]

The simple locks on the case can be opened with a screwdriver if done right.

Then you need better locks.

 

[Hungry Seagull]

I cannot help but think good bolt cutter will snap lock.

I dont do screwdrivers, but remember a few cabled locks on inbound US Customs loads that had to be just about torched to cut the cable.

I have a problem with them going through the stuff with you not present. Not cool.

 

[Babbalanja]

TSA approved locks

Guys, the TSA has keys for about every-known luggage lock. When they say your luggage must have TSA-approved locks it's because they have a right to enter your luggage. They don't need you present. Some of you talk like you're still stuck in the 1950s-1980s, when we had that old-fashioned presumption of innocence.......

 

[GonHuntin]

They are not suppose to open your guncase without you being present.....gun cases are not the same as regular checked luggage! If they need to inspect the contents of your guncase, they MUST contact the person who checked the luggage or, the case does not go on the flight, but they are NOT suppose to open the case without you being present!

http://www.tsa.gov/travelers/airtravel/assistant/editorial_1666.shtm

 

[9x23]

Full Body Scan - Good News and Bad News

I went through one of those new full body scanners at the airport the other day. The TSA inspector said, "I have some good news and some bad news for you."

I said, What is it?"

TSA - "Well, the good news is that you get to make your flight." The bad news is that you have an enlarged prostate!"

.....9x23

 

[acdodd]

I worked at Seatac and I can tell you that if the TSA wants in your bag they will get in.
There is a set of bolt cutters at just about every scanner in the bag well.
They also use a hammer and screwdriver if needed and just tape the bag closed and send it along.
If they have time they will pick the lock if not they cut it.
I DID NOT work for the TSA just to clarify.
AC

 

[Kansan]

Here's my TSA story. It doesn't really relate to the OP's question but thought you guys might enjoy it:

When I deployed to Iraq in 2004, we all carried our firearms onto the chartered flight on a civilian airline. It looked pretty funny as everyone in the 747 had at least M-4's and / or M9's. I'm not sure what the civilian flight attendants thought of it.

However, on my way back to the US, after arriving in Baltimore, I had a civilian connecting flight. I didn't have a gun case, so I had just tossed my M9 (left the M4 in Iraq) in my duffel bag. I got to Baltimore and needless to say, the ATF kicked me off of my connecting flight. At one point, they mentioned something about confiscating it but I told them it was government issued, so since they worked for the government too, I wouldn't mind if they just made sure it got back where it was supposed to go. I was kind of yanking their chain but after being in Iraq where guns are everywhere, the laws here seemed pretty silly.

Anyway, I had to take a taxi ($50) to the nearest Sporting Good's store to buy a gun case ($10). Had to wait until the next day to catch another flight. I found out later that most of the other soldiers had been issued 6 pre-cut boards and some nails and were told to fashion together a "gun-case" for the flight home.

 

[janedoedad]

FWIW It is illegal for TSA or any airline employee, representative, etc. to open a firearms case once it has been inspected and accepted as baggage. This violates their own safety policies as there is now an unsecured firearm in the 'sterile' area. They can however request you open the case at any time.

Also, (some) TSA employees are known to make up "rules" of their own. Often without regard to the requirements of their own agency.

 

[waterhouse]

I had a similar experience. Made it through security, got to the gate, and got called up to the ticket counter.

The TSA guys met me at the counter and we actually walked down the jet way to that door at the end where you can gate-check oversized carry on luggage. Someone had brought my checked bag up from ground level and the TSA guys asked me to open my bag and unlock the case.

They checked the bright orange "firearms declaration tag" and then checked the gun to make sure it was unloaded and asked for the paperwork for my suppressor, which I showed them. They said everything was fine, and I relocked the box and put it back in the bag.

The whole thing took about 5 minutes.

That's the only time I've been asked about the can, but the second time I've been called to show someone a gun. The first time (pre TSA, sometime about 1999 or 2000) I had to walk out to the conveyor belt truck as they were loading bags onto the plane. I'm not sure how they marked it after X-ray so they know that they need to ask me about my bag, but I figure it can't be uncommon if I've had it happen twice. I do check guns quite a bit and it normally isn't any issue though.

 

[DAVIDSDIVAD]

It's kinda scary considering that most of the TSA guys in my area look like McDonalds rejects.

 

[Ranb]

So would it be a good idea to tell them the are silencers in there just in case they do not know what those big metal tubes are? Or would it be a case of TSA dumb and dumber?

Had I not arrived at the airport very early, I could have missed my flight.

Ranb

 

[Kind of Blued]

I was also under the impression that it was ILLEGAL for TSA employess to open your gun case.

 

[DAVIDSDIVAD]

How should one deal with the TSA if they start with the "Because we can" business?

I've never flown with a fire-arm before, and I want to have all bases covered.

 

[Kind of Blued]

Have a copy of the applicable law in the gun case when you give it to them. Have another copy on your person.

If they don't respect that, ask for their supervisors/superiors, and when all else fails, uttering "lawsuit" will likely snap them into reality.

 

[akodo]

How should one deal with the TSA if they start with the "Because we can" business?''

start recording with your cellphone cam or pocket recorder. Do not argue. Comply. Plenty of time to file comlaints and even lawsuits afterwards.