Tula Steel cased ammo. Safe or not?

[Bexar]

I've either heard or have seen videos of Tula steel cased ammo wrecking both AR-15 and AK platforms; either, by over pressure and/or pierced primers. Has anyone else heard or seen problems with Tula?

Thanks...Bexar

 

[ultratec1]

I have never shot it in my AR platforms but my AK used to eat it up and spit it out. Never had an issue with it in 7.62x39

 

[hso]

I've shot a lot of Tula in the past without problem, but I've not made any purchases in a few years.

 

[arizona98tj]

All of the Tula ammo I've shot (AR-15) has been underpowered, compared to other low priced ammo. Aside from an unnoticed squib load (never had one of those), I'm not sure how it would "wreck" the rifle. I guess anything is possible.

 

[loose noose]

You might check what the American Rifleman had to say about steel cased ammo in the Ruger, it's on page 36. Made a lot of sense to me.

 

[vamo]

I've used plenty of tula steel cased with no problem. I've also used other steel cased brands and noticed no difference in performance vs the target brass I use.

I'm not a "premium" ammo shooter, so I cannot speak to that, but I've shot target ammo cased in steel brass and aluminium and have not noticed any difference in performance and my guns are in no worse shape for it.

 

[rskent]

I have not used any of their 223. I have used quite a bit of their 9mm and 45. Safe, I have no reason to say otherwise.
Accurate, not very. They shoot just OK in my G19. In my G36, dismal. I had one box that key holed pretty much every shot.
The one good thing you can say about Tula is that it is about the cheapest ammo you can get.
And every time I pull the trigger it does seem to go bang.

 

[Slamfire]

You might check what the American Rifleman had to say about steel cased ammo in the Ruger, it's on page 36. Made a lot of sense to me.

I was very disappointed with the American Rifleman Magazine response to the question. The question was basically, why can I shoot steel case in my SKS’s and AK47’s without a problem but my Ruger Mini 14 chokes? All the dope bag writer did was call Ruger and was told this oxymoron, essentially, “our guns malfunction with steel case ammunition because they are so precisely built.”

This old, like 1991 thread, is worth reading, I have only copied the beginning.

https://groups.google.com/forum/?hl=en&fromgroups#!msg/rec.guns/S_dalM1NJe0/cBSU4bR2jz8J

John Bercovitz ([email protected])

I see that that article was sort of long. Let me preface it by giving you a bare bones synopsis. A brass cartridge case expands past its yield point during firing, at least for the first firing when the case doesn't fit the chamber so well. That is to say, it stretches plastically to some new size and then springs back from that new size to its new relaxed size.

If that springback is greater than the springback of the steel chamber, then the case will extract easily. If not, the case will want to be larger than the sprung back chamber and so it will be a "press fit" in the chamber and will be difficult to extract. This extraction difficulty appears approximately when chamber pressures exceed 70,000 psi.
Jb

As for Tula wrecking rifles, I suspect it has happened, unfortunately, it used to be that American ammunition was the gold standard and now with increasing frequency, more and more posts on crappy American ammunition are appearing on the internet. What I would be most concerned is cheap surplus ammunition which was discarded for two reasons: it was unsafe to store and unsafe to shoot.

 

[Huskerguy]

I have both Tula and Brown Bear and when I am in a heavy brush area and can't find brass, I will shoot this. I also shoot it when I first try to get a scope close. It shoots fine, never a problem. Have two brothers in law who have shot even more and never a problem with them either through multiple AR's.

I think the main complaints I have heard are the lacquer coated cases that get hot and sticky and the coating comes off. Never happened to me though. I don't find any problems with it and it certainly didn't wreck any firearm I know of.

 

[ID-shooting]

I wont say unsafe, but my wife and I shot a CQB course with our M-4's this weekend. Both of our rifles had stoppages with Tula, both the very same thing. the rim on the case broke off at spot the extractor snaps over the case rim. Caused failure to extract both rifles rendering them stopped and had to pull back from the line. Both are Del-Ton M-4's, no damage to the extractors, both rounds came from the same box as we were stacking mags together. Both had to be cleared using a cleaning rod, both rifles completed the course with that being the only stoppage that wasn't purposefully induced. I would say, for practice ammo or range ammo, no problems. I will not be stocking Tula in the disaster stash though.

 

[splithoof]

Shot tons of it in several calibers, including .223 in Mini-14's and a few AR's. Have reloaded a ton of it as well, never had ANY issues.

 

[frankiestoys]

I've run it through both my 580 series Mini's and have never had a single problem I run the 9mm through my range guns also w/o any malfunctions. Only time it ever choked up was in one of my .45 Sig 1911's and it only happened twice in a new pistol. I try to shoot every other week so saving a little money is a plus its dirty yes but I've had good results with it.

 

[ljnowell]

The only time I ever had a problem with Tula or wolf steel case was with my Rock River AR15. If you fired the plain Tula white box ammo(the coated steel cases) from the first round the spent case would stick in the chamber and the extractor would tear the rim off. Plated steel like silver ur golden bear ammo, no issues.

 

[Rule3]

I was very disappointed with the American Rifleman Magazine response to the question. The question was basically, why can I shoot steel case in my SKS’s and AK47’s without a problem but my Ruger Mini 14 chokes? All the dope bag writer did was call Ruger and was told this oxymoron, essentially, “our guns malfunction with steel case ammunition because they are so precisely built.”

This old, like 1991 thread, is worth reading, I have only copied the beginning.

https://groups.google.com/forum/?hl=en&fromgroups#!msg/rec.guns/S_dalM1NJe0/cBSU4bR2jz8J




As for Tula wrecking rifles, I suspect it has happened, unfortunately, it used to be that American ammunition was the gold standard and now with increasing frequency, more and more posts on crappy American ammunition are appearing on the internet. What I would be most concerned is cheap surplus ammunition which was discarded for two reasons: it was unsafe to store and unsafe to shoot.

I was too. Without going and re reading the article I believe the guy was talking about LACQUER" COATED ammo in the Mini.

Yes if you shoot enough of it and the gun gets really hot it melts the lacquer and gets sticky. Even an AK needs to be cleaned.(I think)

Main thing is though, most of the Tula or Wolf "junk" now comes in poly coated so you do not have this problem.

I wonder how many BILLIONS of rounds have been fired. I sure see a lot of rusting cases at the range!

 

[Sebastian the Ibis]

I have had Tula FTE in my AR. Then I lubed the BCG like I should have in the first place, and did not have any more issues.

 

[cat_IT_guy]

I buy and shoot it in .45, .223, and 7.62x39 regularly with no problems to date.

 

[guncheese]

i scarf up all the steel .45acp cases i can find at the range
and load them back up with top notch target loads
some of my best work has been done with recycled steel cases
and now that i load .40 to low pressure ill be doing that as well

 

[USAF_Vet]

I've used Tula .223, 7.62x39, 9mm and .45 ACP. Never had any issues.

 

[SC Shooter]

It shoots well in my 9 X 18's with no problems.

 

[benEzra]

Tula .223 runs fine in my Rock River 16" midlength (NATO chamber, chrome lined). I use it for plinking and for local carbine matches.

 

[Crowcifier666]

I don't fire it in .223 anymore, after I had a primer pierce and spit in my face. Too close for comfort. I do enjoy the 9mm, those are fired a little farther away from my eyes.

 

[ol' scratch]

I have seen the video put out by Lucky Gunner where they burned a barrel off an AR in under 10,000 rounds. If you can swap a barrel, the cost savings might be worth it. I have found, personally it is cheaper to reload my own. I read a thread where someone with an Arsenal Bulgarian SLR 106 burned the barrel off in around 6000 rounds. AR rifles are much easier to find replacement barrels for, so the guy with the AK was pretty angry. There was even in informal study done by someone where he measured the gilding material in 9 x 18 Mak ammo and found it was too thin and the rifling of his pistols was coming in contact with the bi metal projectile. I guess Wolf and Tula changed the process that they used in making the projectile. Steel cases don't bother me and I have fired many rounds of older Wolf through an SKS and an AK I used to own with no ill effects.

 

[wally]

Ain't much of a gun if steel cased ammo breaks it!

While you'll never win any matches with it unless the rules require everyone to shoot it, I've been shooting whatever steel cased ammo I can buy cheapest for 20+ years.

You can buy quality steel cased ammo from Hornady -- good US bullets and loads in Russian steel cases.


Barrels are wear items, there are other factors besides ammo that will determine their useful life.

 

[emb216]

I've had Had zero functional issues with Tula handgun ammo. Accuracy wasn't great but whatever.



Tula 223 was underpowered for a while, and occasionally still is. I had several FTEs with a few lots, sometimes zero with others.

After doing some research, steel cases expand differently than brass, therefore the pressure curve and timing of the rifle is different. This can result in some FTE, especially when underpowered rounds are fired.

IMO you need a confirmed and CLEAN 5.56 chamber to reliably shoot steel cased ammo. I added an extra strength extractor spring and heavy buffer and the majority of my extraction issues resolved themselves.
Getting a chamber brush and REALLY cleaning and lubing the chamber will significantly help with shooting steel as well.

I did the steps I listed above and now I can run Wolf all day no issues, and Tula with the occasional FTE.

 

[W.E.G.]

I say try some steel-cased TULA/Wolf/Silver Bear/whatever in your AR.

Then for full-effect, shoot some brass-cased ammo right after it.

See what happens.

If nothing happens, I say keep doing it until something does happen.
Chances are, something will happen sooner or later that will make you question it.


I've shot lots of steel-case ammo in 7.62 AK, and various autopistols.
No problems.

I shot a little bit of steel-case ammo in a couple of my AR's and it was a real headache.