tumbler cleaning solution recipe

[scarletfire]

hey guys,

after all these threads about wet tumblers i decided to build one.
the homemade pvc drum has a 2 quart capacity (completely filled).
ebay provided a 2 1/2 lb. bag of stainless steel pins and there is ample supply of simple green, dawn and lemi-shine that is around from hand cleaning cases.
the cases this will be cleaning is .223 and 9mm and some occasional .45ACP and .45 LC.

so what ratios/amounts of brass/pins/water/cleaning product and run time would you recommend?

for background, this is the youtube that i used mostly as a guide to build mine:



as always, thanks for your advice.
Bob

 

[Reeferman]

My homemade one is made from a 7” pvc pipe and holds 8 litres of water. I use a couple cap fulls of auto wash wax and about 1/4 or so shot glass of powder lemishine. Depending on the water quality where you are at will change the lemishine amount. But I did find that using more wash wax is better than too little. I also use 140 degree F water that comes out of my on demand water heater.

 

[Dudedog]

I prefer car wash and wax to dawn, but cheap to try both.
I use citric acid from the canning section of the supermarket, less expensive than lemishine and the citric acid is what your after in the lemishine.
Water PH affects how much Citric acid /lemishine you need. High PH water takes more.
If in doubt add more soap/wash and wax.
Smaller container than I have but as a guess maybe 1.5 ox wash and wax and 1/2 a 9mm case of citric acid.
I have gotten to the point I don't even measure other than by eyeball. Dollop of wash and wax , so much citric acid on the lid of the jar it comes in and go.

 

[hdwhit]

so [sic] what ratios/amounts of brass/pins/water/cleaning product and run time would you recommend?

I wash (not tumble) decapped brass in a solution of weak acid and detergent. I use roughly one teaspoon of citric acid per quart of hot water along with a pump of detergent from a hand dispenser. The exposure time is limited to fifteen minutes as this is a fairly high concentration of the weak acid. Expose your brass to an acid at a high enough concentration long enough and it will turn pink or tan or black (or some other color based on the acid you are using).

I do not use any "cleaning product". Automotive wash/wax solutions have reducing agents in them and since I'm already using a acid, I don't feel the need for a second one. Also, I don't want wax on the surface (interior as well as exterior) of the brass. My reason for this is that all waxes (natural or synthetic) deteriorate over time and since my ammunition may be stored for decades, I don't want to deal with decades old residue on my cases.

Your run time will need to be calibrated based on the amount of acid and other reducing cleaners that you are using. You will have to experiment. But avoid the trap of thinking that more chemicals and longer run time will always deliver better results; it will not. The key here is moderation in all the things you're throwing into the tumbler.

For tumbling, I use media (dry or wet) sufficient to thoroughly cover the cases and then enough water (if wet tumbling) to facilitate movement of the cases and media and a tiny amount of acid and then tumble overnight or while I am at work (about 8 hours) although satisfactory results can generally be achieved in about 2 hours.

 

[Hondo 60]

Gal of water, tbsp of dawn, 1/4 tsp of lemishine
WARNING: More is not better.

 

[Dudedog]

By the time the wax is bad I would guess the powder wouldn't be in the best shape either......
Having said that I haven't stored ammo with wet tumbled cases for decades to see if there are any issues, and the only way to tell for sure would be to conduct a test that would take well,
decades.
Various companies make additives for dry tumbling that contain waxes/polish and sell them, one would hope they did their homework about cases tumbled with their products being stored for long periods of time.
(of course they may not have done their homework)
To much citric acid does not work out well, but again you have wiggle room, it's not like 1/2tsp is ok and 3/4tsp will ruin the brass.

 

[Blue68f100]

I have the FART system and use 1/2 tsp LimeShine, 2 Tbs of Wash & Wax. If the brass is really carboned I add about 1 tsp of simple green. Now if your pins are dirty when you stop (bass dull film) you did not use enough W&W. The surfactant in the soap will keep all the dirt in suspended in the water, if you use enough.

 

[lightman]

In a 15# Thumblers drum I use a cap full of ArmorAll wash and wax and a 9mm case of Lemishine and enough water to cover the cases about an inch. Dawn dish soap works well but the wash and wax leaves a coating that helps protect the brass. I expect most any wash and wax product would work. Adjust the Lemishine to match the hardness of your water. I also suggest tumbling your media in a strong soap solution before tumbling your brass.

 

[scarletfire]

hey guys,
thanks for all the replies.

pre-cleaning the media was a great idea. ran some dawn with hot water and the water came out quite dirty.

started with about 80 very dirty/tarnished .223 cases,added about 1 1/2 lbs. of the pins, a pretty good squirt of dawn, half a .380 case of lemi-shine and covered it all with hot tap water plus and extra inch or so.
ran for 30 minutes and checked them.
pretty clean but still a bit of tarnish.
ran 'em again for 30 more and they looked great.

picked up some of the wash and wax and will give that a try next.

thanks again for the advice.

Bob

 

[ray15]

Now if your pins are dirty when you stop (bass dull film) you did not use enough W&W. The surfactant in the soap will keep all the dirt in suspended in the water, if you use enough.

Far and away the worst case of this I had was when using too much wash and wax. At a certain point the soap falls out of suspension with the water and sticks to the pins, bringing the carbon with. It's not a more-is-better deal.

 

[Erief0g]

Fart
1/4 to 1/2 tsp lemishine.
Four second light squeeze on dawn bottle.
Hot tal water.
Tumble 1.2-2.5 hours.
No issues. Sometimes more brass than others which means there will be more out less water. Don't bother adjusting mix. Works great Everytime

 

[Reeferman]

Far and away the worst case of this I had was when using too much wash and wax. At a certain point the soap falls out of suspension with the water and sticks to the pins, bringing the carbon with. It's not a more-is-better deal.

You must have used a lot.

 

[ray15]

You must have used a lot.

It doesn't take as much as you'd think.

 

[Reeferman]

It doesn't take as much as you'd think.

I’ve never had an issue with too much but have with too little soap. Whatever works is all that matters.

 

[Hamish]

I use a Thumbler Tumbler which holds 15 lbs of media. I have 5 lbs of steel pins, then figure out the rest of the weight with a simple spreadsheet I made up. I figured out the average weight of different caliber cases, then determined how many cases I could wash with 1 gallon of water (8.345 lbs) or 3 liters of water (6.613 lbs). For example, 1 lbs of 9mm is about 117 cases. So with 5 lbs of steel pins, and 3 liters of water, I can wash 395 cases. No matter how many cases I am washing, I use a squirt of Dawn (the blue bottle) and a .45 ACP case of Lemishine. Everything comes out shiny and clean. You just have to watch out for steel pins stuck in the primer holes before you prime the cases. I know, I know - I figured out everything else so precisely, then use a "squirt" of Dawn. It's probably close to 1 TSP of Dawn. It is enough.

 

[scarletfire]

tried the wash & wax as suggested and find it seems to work fine.
cleans well and water seems to bead up and dries quickly.
there is one batch that used the dawn that i'll let sit around the bench for a while along with some of the wash and wax to see if there is any difference as far as tarnishing
thanks again for your time and expertise.
Bob

 

[Dudedog]

Glad it worked out well for you.
I waited a while before I bought my Lyman Cyclone,would have got a F.A.R.Tbut there was an excellent sale on the Lyman.
I was sort of thinking quite a bit of money to tumble cases and wet=more hassle, but once I used it I wished I would have bought it sooner.

Do not decide to try adding in some car paste wax, it does not work out well to say the least. To say the most
Pins and cases coated with superfine grey slime. Large qty of 409 to get everything cleaned up.
Major mess, seemed like a reasonable thing to try at the time.......