Tumbling your brass

[texaz]

Thanks, Northark, wasn't you I was talking about, but I sure appreciate your response!

 

[RustyFN]

texaz:
Thanks.

I guess there is "risk" involved in bending over to tie your shoes, huh?

For as many people who think tumbling loaded rounds is a safe practice, just as many think it's unsafe. I was merely stating what I had read, then I'm told to find another hobby......?

If tumbling loaded rounds is done to get rid of case lube, that's fine. If it's done to make the cartridges look pretty, I couldn't care less.

I was the same as you. I had read places that said you should never tumble loaded ammo but had never seen any fact to back it up. Then I learned that the major ammo makers tumble the loaded ammo before it's boxed. I have also read threads from a few different people that had done their own testing with tumbling their ammo from an hour to days. Pulled the bullets and the powder didn't look any different that when it went in. Shot them over a chrono and there was no difference than with ammo that was not tumbled. That was enough evedence for me to try tumbling rifle ammo for 10 minutes to remove the lube.

As northark147 said I also believe ammo is more abused in transport than in a tumbler. Just imagine the abuse military ammo goes through before it's fired.

 

[jcwit]

Here's another viewpoint regarding "it what i've heard or read". Every new or used handgun that had the papers with it that I've purchased states that the warrenty is void if I shoot reloads in it. This gives me the assumption that reloads are unsafe?

 

[mbquimby]

I was the same as you...

As northark147 said I also believe ammo is more abused in transport than in a tumbler. Just imagine the abuse military ammo goes through before it's fired.

As a former ammunition technician for a Marine Arty Battery/provisional rifle company, I can promise you with absolute confidence and authority that military ammo gets beat to hell and back before being used.....like badly. tifwiw

Sent from my PC36100 using Tapatalk

 

[texaz]

Here's another viewpoint regarding "it what i've heard or read". Every new or used handgun that had the papers with it that I've purchased states that the warrenty is void if I shoot reloads in it. This gives me the assumption that reloads are unsafe?

The only pistol I've bought that gives that warning is Glock. None of my 1911s have ever had that warning in the paperwork.

 

[thump_rrr]

The only pistol I've bought that gives that warning is Glock. None of my 1911s have ever had that warning in the paperwork.

I guess you don't own any Springfield Armory or Smith & Wesson.

 

[jcwit]

Haven't bought a Kimber, or a S&W, or a Springfield have you?

 

[texaz]

I've had three Kimbers and one XD and traded them all away. Therefore, I don't have the documentation that came with them. I now have two Nighthawk 1911s, a Les Baer TRS, and an older HP. None of those came with such a warning.

 

[jcwit]

Out of my collection of over 75 handguns none of them reccomend or will warrent their product with handloads, the .22 rimfires do not count of course. With than said what do I know, I've only been reloading for 50 years and shooting for 60 years.

We won't even get into the rifles.

 

[Cop Bob]

mY .02 Centavos on tumbling loaded rounds....

I have done it, never had a PROBLEM... however I have noticed on one or two occasions that the recoil seemed extra "Snappy"... This was in some .270 loads with old IMR 4831 that were tumbled for about an hour or more.. (forgot they were in there... opps!)

I had explained to me this way... and it almost makes sense.. That Extruded powder, like 4831, 4320, 4895, in less than case capacity loads when rolled or tumbled excessively, will have a tendency to break up a bit.. .. By deforming, crumbling the powder by grinding, or tumbling, you increase the surface area of the powder and increase the burn rate somewhat... (similar to black powder grain sizes)

With loads that run at or near case capacity, or compressed loads this is a non-issue... with smaller ball powders, as used in most modern Military Rounds, it is not as much an issue as I am told.. ( I personally have not used Ball Powders much at all, a little in my 223's on occasion, but that's about it)

It does not seem to be a factor in flake powders in pistol, like 700-X, 800-X or Bullseye.. and I have tumbled loads with those powders, and taken them back and run them through a Chronograph, with a Ransom Rest, and noticed NO differences in groups or velocity. I think there were some rounds that we tumbled for about an hour, and it jumped the deviation up to about +- 10 fps... not really enough to talk about for most purposes.. My loads with flake powders in pistol, are just about ALL mid-range loads.. nothing spicy at all...

A short tumble with case capacity or compressed loads SHOULD (qualifier here) not be an issue at all... However, as with anything else that comes off a loading bench, if it is not recommended by the component manufacturer.. your on your own...

 

[northark147]

Cop Bob, I am almost certain that a tumbler will not shake to break powder down any more then the process of getting powder to you. Even just one trip by truck (and anything you buy takes a lot more than one) involves moving freight onto a truck. The transition from a hard warehouse floor to a suspended trailer floor is not gentle. The truck idling in itself is going to vibrate the freight. Some companies use this fact to haul liquid in cold weather as the vibrations from the engine will keep the product from freezing. then it hits the road, and gets the crap beat out of it. Then it has to be taken back off of the truck.

As to date I have never opened a container of powder that was filled to capacity or compressed. and what I just described was only one truck ride, It probably took at least 10 before you got it, plus all the other moving around and handling before it ever gets used.

 

[Cop Bob]

One other thing that I picked up on an earlier thread, and I tried it in the last few weeks, Is, when tumbling my fired cases, to add some dish washing liquid to the walnut hulls...

I tried Dawn, because it is what I had in the kitchen, and by golly... it works..!!!!

For years, I have used, Fritz, Brasso, and a myriad of other brass cleaners and polishes added to the media.. it all worked to varying degrees..

The dish washing liquid did several good things for me... It cut WAY down on the dust.. The brass comes out really nice... and the media seems to stay cleaner longer.. I am getting longer life out of my media..

I HIGHLY recommend it... and I picked up that little trick here at THR... Thanks to whoever it was that posted that little tidbit of info.. Good Stuff.!!!!

 

[Cop Bob]

Valid point... however, a 1200 mile trip in a truck would defiantly cause some "Settling of Contents" it would not be near as aggressive as a length of time in a tumbler... The tumbling action is DESIGNED to make parts rub against, bounce off of and make one part knock stuff off of and swap components with the other.. It's the whole purpose of it...

My point was, and is... that I see no real issue in tumbling loaded rounds,, especially in a vibratory cleaner, however, I have noticed on one occasion, after a lengthy tumbling, what seemed to me to be a slight increase in recoil, and slightly higher pressures.

When I asked some pretty sharp folks that are in the the know on this type of stuff.. this was the explanation that I was given.. and it is plausible... the science behind it is well established.. ask any black powder shooter about pressures and grain size..

An important part of powder design is both it's chemical composition, and its grain size. Grain Size or surface area is one of the determining, and controlling factors in its burn rate..

By altering the grain size, and changing its shape, and most importantly increasing its surface area, you alter to a degree it's burn rate...

Even inert Grains, like rice, when ground and tumbled give off dust... and even grain dust can in and of itself be explosive... as is coal dust... Historical Examples, coal dust was the actual cause of the sinking of the Battleship Maine in Havana Harbor, not a mine or torpedo, and that one started the Spanish American War... the second historical example of tiny normally non-flammable particulates was the Good Pasture Grain Explosion

http://www3.gendisasters.com/texas/12987/galena-park-tx-grain-elevator-explosion-feb-1976 I know about that one.... I was there!

Now lets add nitro-cellulose and a bunch of other I like to burn like crazy chemicals to the mix,,, and see if it is possible that the pressures come up just a smooch...

Just stating fact, not looking for a fight..

 

[jcwit]

I wonder how the military handled the degregation of powder in shells going way back to WW1. 4895 is a powder that was used for the 30/06 in WW2. One thing thats being forgotten is gunpowder is usually coated with graphite. This whole deal about powder degrading while has been discussed, argued, challenged, ect., ect., over and over and never found to be a fact. When I get to the point of deciding the supposed power of a round by the "snap" of the round I think I'll be needing to look into checking my chrony.

I've got ammo from WW2 that I've shot, it had the Nazi Swastika for the headstamp. Man that powder should like talc powder by now.

Pray tell, how are you measuring pressure?