Two DLPs and Three Bear Attacks to date in Alaska This Season

[Alaska444]

Dear porktornado, not sure, that isn't me in the picture. I found that monster bear picture on the internet. Unfortunately, there are several places that have the same picture with different stories. Just wanted to show what some of these monster bears look like. I should have noted that in my post. Sorry for that.

How about a 7.62x39 for that bear?

 

[porktornado]

that would easily get the job done. .243 with 100gr soft point did the trick on one last year. 100yard shot and it went about 20 yards. found the bullet on the opposite side laying up against the skin as i was skinning it.

 

[CharlieDeltaJuliet]

Here is an example of an average Brown bear. My uncle shot quite a few years ago. It was brought down with a 338rum. The P220 is just in the photo for a size referance. Sorry for the quality, it is a quick shot with the IPAD.

 

[porktornado]

ok, once you get me going i can't stop. a couple more from the peninsula. granted this is a different subspecies (ursus arctos middendorffi) compared to ursus arctos horribilis we hunt back in the SE.

 

[Cosmoline]

It has been real dicey. A former colleague of mine got nailed in Eagle River. Thankfully he's all sourdough and sinew so the bear spit him back out.

I've had to change my usual spring weekend exercise route to avoid the usual trails because they've been full of aggressive brown bear. They even found a brown bear feeding on a moose in the middle of a dense south Anchorage suburb. Not the greenbelt, either. This bear had to have stalked his game across backyards, highways, etc. That's pretty unusual.

Yes, running is one of the worst things you can do. Going into the woods unprepared is just asking for trouble.

Unless it's a sow with cubs, which is what some of these certainly were. There are so many little mantras we've told ourselves. If we just do _____ we'll be safe and if someone gets nailed who wasn't doing ______ then it's all their fault for not doing ______. It's just human nature to try to imagine we can control these encounters. But you know what? We can't. It's the bear's encounter, not ours. We can do our best but anytime we set foot out there, we roll the dice. That's just the way it is. Run, don't run, yell, don't yell, be in a group, be alone, carry a gun, carry spray, climb a tree, run into a pond, etc. It's easy to find cases where these methods worked, and easy to find cases where they didn't. What you do really never was the point. It's what the BEAR does that matters. As soon as it has your scent, it is in control not you. And most of the time it opts to leave or ignore you. Most of the time we never even realize there was a bruin fifteen feet away in the devil's club glowering at us.

I just try to stay away when my little voice (or the newspaper) is giving me those signs of trouble. Like now. So until the salmon get going in earnest and the bear head down to the streams, I'm sticking to bike rides and staying off the trails.

but my boss tells me that you basically have to have bite or claw marks on your body for them to justify DLP.

It's not that bad around here. The bigger issue is discharging a magnum rifle in the middle of the city! APD frowns on that and has intimated that if folks are doing it without sufficient necessity they'll get hit with criminal charges for the discharge. I'd go with a slug or something that runs out of juice reasonably fast.

Statewide there are a lot of DLP shootings every year. So many that the state does an annual hide sale from the kills at the fur rondy. You have to surrender the hide, of course.

 

[porktornado]

some people thought it was odd that i carried my 870 12ga with me in the bush. but once i told them that this puppy holds five .73cal 604gr non expanding slugs they didnt think it was so odd. definitely my go to gun when not playing the hunter role and going after wounded bears.

i agree with you 100% Cosmo, it is definitely the bears encounter. in that link i posted, the guy was yelling every so often to alert bears of his presence and making a lot of noise. unfortunately it didn't seem to work for him.

 

[.338-06]

With two DLP's and three attacks so far, one has to wonder why we haven't had a single save from pepper spray, but we have had two saves from firearms.

That's because a bear encounter solved with pepper spray is like a mugging solved by the mugger running away when you draw a gun. Both are non-events, even if you report them.

 

[porktornado]

pepper spray, to me, seems like bringing a knife to a gun fight. i did get to test its potency when my buddy, not knowing what it was, accidentally sprayed it inside a conix box we have for storage. not only did i get it, but it doesn't stop if you let off the trigger and he managed get a direct shot when he threw it. between the laughing and the coughing it was a rather funny experience.

 

[porktornado]

well you can already hunt 24 hrs.

 

[Bush Pilot]

had a Grizz in camp last week near Ft Nelson BC, on June 11, beaned him with a .58 cal lead cast ball twice from my slingshot at 20 yards, he snorted and took off, lol

he had been around for a couple of days, showed no fear of humans,or warning gunshots ,

HE never came back after a bruising from the 2 x .58C cal lead balls,


.338WinMag on my shoulder for back up,,,,,, just in case, lol :banghead:

Everyone knows the bears in BC and Alberta are house pets compared to the bears in Alaska. If you would have put out a bowl of bear chow he'd have followed you home. I've actually had a plane and cabin destroyed by a pair of grizzlies, it isn't fun.

 

[elkdomBC]

good to get a bit of understanding Bush Pilot, yes BC and Alberta Grizzlies do tend to be "more gentle" than the nasty bears you find, ( I meant that find you) farther north,,

our cuddly Grizzly bears tend more to like porridge and pancakes, with a sprinkling of "tree-planter" or even the occasional "moose hunter or elk hunter for something new",,,,,,,,

 

[Alaskan]

A few more

This just came out in the local paper.

http://peninsulaclarion.com/news/2012-06-21/bear-sow-and-2-cubs-killed

A brown bear sow was shot and killed in defense of life and property by an Arc Loop resident Wednesday, and Alaska Department of Fish and Game officials later euthanized the bear’s two cubs.

Officials responded after a resident reported shooting a brown bear sow getting into a pen with chicken and other fowl. The two cubs lingered around the sow as Fish and Game arrived, said Jeff Selinger, Fish and Game area wildlife biologist.

The cubs’ chances of survival without the mother were “extremely low,” Selinger said. Officials could not find a suitable area for the cubs. In the past, cubs in similar situations have been shot by residents or killed by bears when released into other areas.

“The most humane thing to do at that point was to put them down, so they wouldn’t have to endure additional suffering,” Selinger said.

The resident reported his bear problems two days prior to the shooting. Electric fencing surrounded the pen. Alaska Wildlife Troopers are still reviewing the shooting. Troopers are tasked with reviewing every defense of life and property (DLP) killing.

Kenai Peninsula residents have shot and killed three brown bears in defense of life and property this summer. When compared to recent years, there are, so far, fewer adverse interactions with the bears, Selinger said.

There were two DLP killings in May. A resident of East End Road near Homer killed a young male brown bear, which was also getting into chickens.

Another sub-adult female brown bear was killed in Cooper Landing. Residents reported a bear wandering around the West Quartz Creek Subdivision, rummaging through garbage and destroying bird feeders. Following routine clean up and establishing precautions, the bear disappeared for some time. A bear fitting the same description, however, appeared at Wildman’s convenience store, and a concerned resident shot the bear.

A total of 22 non-hunting mortalities of brown bears occurred last year in the area. DLP killings constitute the majority of non-hunting mortalities, Selinger said.

Prior to 2008, Fish and Game recorded a steep incline in non-hunting, human-caused bear killings, which peaked at about 40 bears. The number of killings leveled out, with the average between 18 to 22 killings during the last three years.

Fish and Game’s management objective is not to exceed ten human-caused killings of reproductive-aged female brown bears; that includes hunting and non-hunting incidents.

 

[porktornado]

Fish and Game’s management objective is not to exceed ten human-caused killings of reproductive-aged female brown bears; that includes hunting and non-hunting incidents./QUOTE]

given that you can take a barren sow, or a sow without cubs, how do they expect to do this?

 

[porktornado]

sorry

 

[BrainOnSigs]

http://www.fws.gov/mountain-prairie/species/mammals/grizzly/bear spray.pdf

Is bear spray effective?
If you're able to hit the bear in the face, you're in business. Most likely the bear will make an instant, confused retreat. It won't knock a bear out, but it will definitely make it forget it wants to eat you. Capsaicin has the same effect on bears that it does on humans. They'll feel an instant burning sensation wherever you hit them, so just like humans, it's best to get them in the face. The eyes, nose and lungs will all burn like fire, causing the mucous membrane tissues to swell.
A face hit almost guarantees temporary blindness and big-time breathing problems. But the good news is that the sting will eventually subside and by that time, either you or the bear are long gone. You have all your limbs in tact, and the bear suffers no permanent damage. The same can't be said about bullets.
What can be said for bullets? They don't always thwart an attack. The U.S. Fish and Wildlife Service investigated human and bear encounters from 1992 to 2005 and found that people who defended themselves with firearms were injured about 50 percent of the time by the bear. People who used the bear spray escaped injury 98 percent of the time, and the few injuries they suffered were far less severe than those in the gun-toting realm. Why? Because it's difficult to stop a bear with a gun and wounded bears are more likely to become even more aggressive.
Another study was performed by Thomas Smith, a bear biologist from Brigham Young University. After analyzing 20 years of bear incidents, he found that bear spray was effective 92 percent of the time, compared to 67 percent for guns.

 

[Alaska444]

http://www.fws.gov/mountain-prairie/species/mammals/grizzly/bear spray.pdf

Is bear spray effective?
If you're able to hit the bear in the face, you're in business. Most likely the bear will make an instant, confused retreat. It won't knock a bear out, but it will definitely make it forget it wants to eat you. Capsaicin has the same effect on bears that it does on humans. They'll feel an instant burning sensation wherever you hit them, so just like humans, it's best to get them in the face. The eyes, nose and lungs will all burn like fire, causing the mucous membrane tissues to swell.
A face hit almost guarantees temporary blindness and big-time breathing problems. But the good news is that the sting will eventually subside and by that time, either you or the bear are long gone. You have all your limbs in tact, and the bear suffers no permanent damage. The same can't be said about bullets.
What can be said for bullets? They don't always thwart an attack. The U.S. Fish and Wildlife Service investigated human and bear encounters from 1992 to 2005 and found that people who defended themselves with firearms were injured about 50 percent of the time by the bear. People who used the bear spray escaped injury 98 percent of the time, and the few injuries they suffered were far less severe than those in the gun-toting realm. Why? Because it's difficult to stop a bear with a gun and wounded bears are more likely to become even more aggressive.
Another study was performed by Thomas Smith, a bear biologist from Brigham Young University. After analyzing 20 years of bear incidents, he found that bear spray was effective 92 percent of the time, compared to 67 percent for guns.

As a medical doctor, one aspect of our training was to learn how to evaluate scientific studies. Unfortunately, bear spray studies are within the realm of the lowest forms of evidence. These studies are nonrandomized, retrospective, cohort studies based on anecdotal third person accounts. If you were to place your life in the hands of a doctor using that kind of evidence, you would rightly be skeptical about the results and advice.

By the authors account, their results are not inclusive of all cases since many are never reported. In addition, there is no mechanism to sort out true charges from bluff charges which is another confounding error in these studies.

So, not to disparage pepper spray for bears, but you truly need to take all of the stats with a grain of salt. James Gary Shelton who lives in B.C. Canada recommends both firearms and pepper spray since neither is a perfect deterrent.

 

[JohnM]

When I worked in the Alaska bush we carried a big sized fresh can of starting fluid and a BBQ lighter at all times.
I only knew one guy who had to stop a full blown charge, but he said it stopped that bear in his tracks. Then he had to go change his trousers.

 

[porktornado]

i heard from an Alaskan native that if you use bear spray, it will make the bear go away, but they like spicy stuff, so later it will come back looking for that spice. he was saying that after you spray it you need to vacate the area. thats just here-say so i don't know if there is any truth to that.

 

[Cosmoline]

Found that people who defended themselves with firearms were injured about 50 percent of the time by the bear. People who used the bear spray escaped injury 98 percent of the time, and the few injuries they suffered were far less severe than those in the gun-toting realm.

We've been over this before, but the stats are highly unreliable. For one thing most of the time people who shoot bears in DLP are NOT injured. Like the brown bear sow and cubs just shot when they wouldn't stop eating a guy's chickens. These shootings happen all the time, every season, and are rarely reported beyond the local papers if even there. So how many of the successful shootings are counted as having stopped an attack? We really have no way of knowing if that bear would have attacked or not. Or if by shooting it the chicken owner saved someone from getting mauled when they went out to get eggs one morning. But the study you cite counts ZERO such incidents, focusing instead on the narrow group of reported trail charges when a firearm was reported being used. If you have a firearm and the bear does attack you, you're highly likely to try to use it. But the fine people who construct these studies can twist this around in their stats to make it appear that YOUR USE of the firearm PRECIPITATED the attack, or that there's some other negative correlation between using a firearm and getting mauled.

 

[BrainOnSigs]

We've been over this before, but the stats are highly unreliable. For one thing most of the time people who shoot bears in DLP are NOT injured. Like the brown bear sow and cubs just shot when they wouldn't stop eating a guy's chickens. These shootings happen all the time, every season, and are rarely reported beyond the local papers if even there. So how many of the successful shootings are counted as having stopped an attack? We really have no way of knowing if that bear would have attacked or not. Or if by shooting it the chicken owner saved someone from getting mauled when they went out to get eggs one morning. But the study you cite counts ZERO such incidents, focusing instead on the narrow group of reported trail charges when a firearm was reported being used. If you have a firearm and the bear does attack you, you're highly likely to try to use it. But the fine people who construct these studies can twist this around in their stats to make it appear that YOUR USE of the firearm PRECIPITATED the attack, or that there's some other negative correlation between using a firearm and getting mauled.

So conversely the stats on shootings are highly unreliable. If you Google "bear spray vs shooting" it seems like more and more evidence is pointing to bear spray being very effective if used properly. One should train with the spray as one did with a firearm. I'm not saying not to carry a weapon where allowed. I used the spray before bullets in an encounter last year in Yellowstone. A buddy and I were carrying a S&W 460 and a 500. We both are excellent shots and shoot competitively. We had the spray in our hand while walking. We surprised a sow at the bend of a trail and she bolted at us. My buddy and I both let loose with spray and she stop as soon as she caught a snoot full.

Three things I can say with certainty...from my meager experience:

1) The spray worked as advertised.

2) Even if I had my S&W 460 in my hand no f-ing way would I have made a one shot kill.....she was at top speed instantly...and I might have got off one shot....at a massive skull...moving up/down/sideways. We all like to think we are gods with a gun....but few people on this planet would have got off a kill shot....no way...no how.

3) Bear spray then bullets....not the other way around.

 

[Alaska444]

So conversely the stats on shootings are highly unreliable. If you Google "bear spray vs shooting" it seems like more and more evidence is pointing to bear spray being very effective if used properly. One should train with the spray as one did with a firearm. I'm not saying not to carry a weapon where allowed. I used the spray before bullets in an encounter last year in Yellowstone. A buddy and I were carrying a S&W 460 and a 500. We both are excellent shots and shoot competitively. We had the spray in our hand while walking. We surprised a sow at the bend of a trail and she bolted at us. My buddy and I both let loose with spray and she stop as soon as she caught a snoot full.

Three things I can say with certainty...from my meager experience:

1) The spray worked as advertised.

2) Even if I had my S&W 460 in my hand no f-ing way would I have made a one shot kill.....she was at top speed instantly...and I might have got off one shot....at a massive skull...moving up/down/sideways. We all like to think we are gods with a gun....but few people on this planet would have got off a kill shot....no way...no how.

3) Bear spray then bullets....not the other way around.

Actually, the majority of attacks involve people who have no protection whatsoever. In the last couple of years, there are very few attacks involving pepper spray or firearms.

The two notable examples are the kids last year in Alaska that were taught to use pepper spray and carried pepper spray who were all malled. This failed because the did not deploy the spray. Yet, it is unlikely that these kids and the attack will make it into the failed column for pepper spray.

The second case last year was the hunters in northern Idaho that mistakenly shot a grizzly and were attacked when they tracked it down. The man actually died from his friends rifle shot through the bear and into him. That situation was a bit different since it was a wounded grizzly which is always a very dangerous affair.

Long story short, when they add the NOLS bear attack event to the failed pepper spray column, perhaps I will give these studies a bit more credence. I won't hold my breath.

 

[Cosmoline]

Another point to keep in mind--99% of the time (or more) doing nothing at all is the best policy. Because 99% or more of the time the bears don't attack. And just ignoring them works fantastic, because most of the time in close encounters humans have no clue that there's a bear staring at them a few dozen yards away. I've met quite a few very experienced Alaskan hikers who use this method and it seems to work well enough.

 

[Alaska444]

Another point to keep in mind--99% of the time (or more) doing nothing at all is the best policy. Because 99% or more of the time the bears don't attack. And just ignoring them works fantastic, because most of the time in close encounters humans have no clue that there's a bear staring at them a few dozen yards away. I've met quite a few very experienced Alaskan hikers who use this method and it seems to work well enough.

+1, they see us, hear us and smell us much more often than the other way around. Take a look at what looks like a black bear stalking a man. I would much rather have a gun that can take care of him than pepper spray. The slow stalk is typical of predatory black bears. Which would you rather have?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3P3a9zgzEgk

 

[Alaska444]

Here is another frightening predatory black bear stalk caught on video that lasted for about an hour. Slow, quiet and lethal intentions are evident.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3WX_A03Qepc

Black bears in this situation are known to back off after the pepper spray but then engage the stalk again. If you only have one can of pepper spray, you are still in a world of trouble. On the other hand, who couldn't take this bear out even with a .22 LR as it slowly and deliberately approaches. This is the classic predatory black bear attack behavior. In these cases, lethal deterrence is your only option. Pepper spray just doesn't cut it.

 

[Gottahaveone]

I was camping with a buddy several years ago and we were on a day hike. We spotted a good sized brown approaching from across a clearing.

I immediately grabbed a pair of tennis shoes from my pack and started putting them on. My buddy asked what in the world I was doing, there was no way I was gonna outrun that bear. I told him it wasn't the bear I needed to outrun