Two pro-gun groups clash - who's right?

[Arizona_Mike]

Everyone should go back and read BenErza's post (#12) before commenting.

The NRA, Come and Take It Texas, Texas Carry, Gun Rights Across America and Open Carry Texas are in agreement.

Don't take the press's bait.

Mike

 

[PistolPete45]

The NRA traded away my rights in the 90's told those of us that attended their meeting that the NRA had decided who it was going to support and what we had to say was of no importance . I say Listen to the NRA but do not trust them join and support the GOA or Grass roots . bunch like wikipedia.org/wiki/Grass_Roots_North_Carolina. Who knows the NRA might just decide gun owners are more important then political power lobbyist if the bank account gets low . $$$$$ and power is the NRA goal not American gun ownership. Defending the 2nd Amendment is a pay check for the NRA

 

[Arizona_Mike]

The NRA traded away my rights in the 90's told those of us that attended their meeting that the NRA had decided who it was going to support and what we had to say was of no importance . I say Listen to the NRA but do not trust them join and support the GOA or Grass roots . bunch like wikipedia.org/wiki/Grass_Roots_North_Carolina. Who knows the NRA might just decide gun owners are more important then political power lobbyist if the bank account gets low . $$$$$ and power is the NRA goal not American gun ownership. Defending the 2nd Amendment is a pay check for the NRA

What event are you referring to in the 90s?

Mike

 

[22-rimfire]

So one has to ask IF these folks in Texas OC muzzle loaders, shotguns and lever guns would there be such reactions?

I think you would get the same reaction with "traditional" rifles and shotguns. The reaction may be a tad higher for AR's simply because of the media, the potential for more rapid fire, and possibly a higher injury rate.

 

[On An Island]

I have to side with the NRA on this. OCT is doing much more harm than good. All obnoxious actions get is headlines, and those don't help.

22-rimfire, I think the AR's definitely upped the reaction. Had it been Winchesters and Sharps, there would have been more curiosity than fear.

 

[mgmorden]

So one has to ask IF these folks in Texas OC muzzle loaders, shotguns and lever guns would there be such reactions? Is the deep seeded fear of the NRA and gun community really because of the style of gun? I find this whole situation very interesting as I do the comments here.

I think the reaction would be the same for ANY long gun - no matter how traditional.

Look at it this way - the POLICE generally don't even carry a long gun unless they have a good reason to. The inconvenience is simply too great to be worth it unless you have a specific reason to be USING that gun right now.

Instead, they carry a handgun in a holster. Unobtrusive, out of the way, but there if you need it.

I have absolutely no problem with the open carry of a handgun in functional holster, but if I see someone with a rifle, then unless I'm out hunting my reaction is that something is going down. That doesn't matter if they're a citizen, law enforcement or military.

I'm not necessarily saying it should be illegal, but there are some things that portray one in a negative light and just don't make sense. I wouldn't walk around downtown in a pair of speedos either. Doesn't mean it should be against the law, but common sense says a person of intelligence and character just doesn't engage in that behavior.

 

[PistolPete45]

Flash suppressor mag over 10 rounds the so called assault weapon that is still being vilified as the cause of crime crazy background checks and permits for law abiding Americans while paroling convicted criminals . The NRA did not represent me or anyone I know. here in NC .. It appeared to us the NRA was only using us and what money they got to build a NRA empire with us as the subjects .

 

[short barrel]

If I were a patron in a restaurant or Home Depot or any other place except maybe a gun store or gun show, and someone came in with a semi-auto rifle, I would immediately leave. Wouldn't you? What a man so armed might have as a motive could not be known for sure.

 

[GEM]

If anyone thinks that in the current situation we would be better off without the NRA , they are delusional. They are not perfect but we are miles ahead with them.

As far as the Chipolte-oid demonstrations, they are counterproductive. The NRA and TSRA are right on the money about how useless they are.

As far as tactical utility/safey of carrying a long arm such as done in the stores - you don't know much about using such guns.

Nor do the proponents of such OC know much about marketing, public opinion or persuasion.

 

[RetiredUSNChief]

I rebut. They certainly have;

"But the group's lobbying arm, the Institute for Legislative Action, has called the demonstrations counterproductive to promoting gun rights, scary and "downright weird."

The NRA said the demonstrations have "crossed the line from enthusiasm to downright foolishness."

"Using guns merely to draw attention to yourself in public not only defies common sense, it shows a lack of consideration and manners. That's not the Texas way. And that's certainly not the NRA way," the NRA said in a statement posted on its website Friday."

And- back to the question at hand- yep, its a divisive issue, how to go about this.

Is it better to have part antagonist " in your face" exposure, or not ?

Some would say one way, some would say the other.

My question is, what and how should we bring these forces together... because division isn't helping us.... or is it ?

I still say they haven't spoken out against open carry. They've spoken out against stupid people doing stupid things in stupid places at stupid times.

As a group, gun owners need to act like responsible adults if we want to be treated like responsible adults. That's IT in a nutshell. There is no need for any complicated, convoluted bringing of forces together.

 

[blarby]

I still say they haven't spoken out against open carry.

I certainly didn't say they did.

I said they spoke out against Open Carry Texas

As a group

And I guess thats the rub- I think if we could find a way to be on the same page, we'd be a lot stronger united than divided.

Perhaps I'm mistaken !

 

[RetiredUSNChief]

^^^^

My apologies! I misread.

 

[blarby]

Happens to me too !

No worries. Just wanted to make sure the premise was clear. Looks like we're on the same page !

 

[aarondhgraham]

All I know is,,,

All I know is,,,
They are making my life more difficult.

All I've been hearing about from my anti-gun associates is,,,
"Have you heard about those nuts down in Texas?"

Aarond

.

 

[Coyote3855]

Judge a political activity not by the action but by the reaction. These guys are doing more harm than good and I support the NRA position.

 

[DNS]

Folks exercising a right to O.C. and gun owners and the NRA criticize. Same folks that criticize Texas for not having O.C. of handguns all the time here on THR.

I see no reason to be an NRA memeber, who imho, should have kept there big fat mouths shut.

 

[R.W.Dale]

TXOC is nothing more than a lunatic fringe group that is hurting the very real progress we've made with by in large the help of the NRA on 2a carry related issues.

These bozo's grandstanding is doing nothing but influencing people who previously didn't care against us.

Ponder this. If TXOC can't garner widespread support on a GUN ENTHUSIAST forum just how exactly do you think their " tactics" are being recieved by soccer moms and John Q Public?

 

[DNS]

I've talked to several of the folks here when they did a "walk" through town. I didn't find them to be lunatic. On the contrary, they were younger folks that were very polite and knowledgeable on the subject. I was happy to see that some of that generation (x,y,z?) not only into firearms but defending their rights.

One guy even had a 32 oz slurpee with has black rifle; take that Bloomberg crowd.

To me its a non-issue that is being forced into the limelight by the libs and if you react then they win.

 

[shafter]

I've got to agree with the NRA on this one. Like the old adage goes, "Just because we can, doesn't mean we should."

True. But, just because you can, and shouldn't; doesn't mean unconstitutional laws should be passed to prevent people from carrying.

I'm of the opinion that if we all open carried people would grow much more accustomed to the sight of firearms in public, and would quickly lose their fear of them.

 

[larryh1108]

There's a right way and a wrong way to do things and this was not the right way. Somehow I feel these clowns are sitting back, watching all the fuss and giving each other high fives because they created this controversy.... not for the sake of OCTX but because they are getting their 15 minutes of fame 100x over.

The right way is an organized march or demonstration, as a group, to expresss their views. What they did was an immature way of getting attention, something 4 year olds do all the time. I'm sure they are proud of themselves as they hit their bong.

 

[pharmer]

1) Don't frighten the sheep, doesn't do any good and you have to chase after them to calm them down.
2) Slinging a $1000 AR over your shoulder makes a statement: Pull that peashooter out of your waistband and rob me for a "weapons upgrade."

Go ahead, badmouth the NRA, until November. Joe

 

[gearhead]

It seems to be mainly a Texas push right now. Here in Florida, OC advocates have been trying to get it back since we lost it in 1987, over political manoeuvrings to get concealed carry passed. Janet Reno almost certainly was a factor.

But there is no push in the state to go hardcore, as has been happening in Texas. In fact, little of anything is happening at all OC wise, even with an overwhelming GOP Legislature and perhaps America's most pro gun Governor in the person of Rick Scott.

Why this almost total malaise, I cannot say. We almost got it in 2012 ,up to the very last session. If Scott loses in November, it won't happen for at least 4 more years.

Only a handful of OC less states left, and we along with South Carolina and Texas in the South, stand out.

This is only moderately off-topic, I'll try to drag it back on topic before I conclude. Here in SC we're expecting Gura to show up any day with a lawsuit to force SC to either recognize open carry without a permit or to offer permits to out-of-state residents for concealed carry. Gura has a Federal circuit case that says one or the other is required, you can't just deny nonresidents some way of legal self defense.

I have my CWP but there are times and places where I would prefer to open carry if it were legal here. I don't believe open carry per se is provocative or that it hurts our cause but I do believe those lunkheads in Texas did a lot of damage to our cause. At the same time, by taking a public stand on the incident the NRA has drawn renewed attention to something that was a somewhat obscure incident outside of Texas and outside of the circle of pro- and anti-gun activists. I think that will also hurt our cause in the long run.

 

[krupparms]

As I live on a fixed income, I don't go to Chipoletes or most of the other places mentioned except for Home Depot & I do go to Safeway ect..I have been stopped & had fokes speak to me about the fact I am armed, but all of these encounters were positive &gave me the chance to inform citizens of their O.C.rights! As most here know I am very much for O.C.! But I must agree that these citizens went a little far in exerciseing their RKBA! To carry a long gun unslung or in their hands was pushing things! On the other hand I wounder just how blatant we should be when our civil rights are broken on a daily basis! As I have said, there will never be a good climate for gun ownership or O.C.laws! There will always be someone who's senseablitys will be offended! I certainly don't have all the answers! BUT I DO KNOW ONE! MAMA USE TO SAY "PEOPLE THAT LIVE IN GLASS HOMES, SHOULDN'T THROW ROCKS! " AND THIS IS ONE BIG GLASS HOUSE WE ARE LIVING IN!

I don't carry a long gun when out, except when hunting & would not carry into a restaurant ect.

 

[RetiredUSNChief]

There's a right way and a wrong way to do things and this was not the right way. Somehow I feel these clowns are sitting back, watching all the fuss and giving each other high fives because they created this controversy.... not for the sake of OCTX but because they are getting their 15 minutes of fame 100x over.

The right way is an organized march or demonstration, as a group, to expresss their views. What they did was an immature way of getting attention, something 4 year olds do all the time. I'm sure they are proud of themselves as they hit their bong.

I used to tell my Sailors "There is a right way, a wrong way, and a smart way."

There are rarely issues with things that are clearly right or clearly wrong...even the dimwitted are (usually) bright enough to recognize these conditions.

The "smart way", however, is what's required for those cases which are not so clear cut. The smart way involves using one's noggin and implimenting some process by which the risks and benefits are weighed as a correct course is charted towards the final goal.

Obviously using one's noggin was not an option for these two clowns, as the brains in their noggins probably looked a lot like a BB rolling down a 4 lane highway.

 

[22-rimfire]

To me its a non-issue that is being forced into the limelight by the libs and if you react then they win.

If you react....? I understand some people feel this way. But I don't.

I know for a fact that if I walk into a restaurant here in the US, sit at a table to be served, and a couple people with ARs strapped to their backs walk in.... I'm going to react. My first thought would NOT be that they are good old boys exercising their rights.