Two questions for you Progressive press users

[Kevin Rohrer]

1. When depriming off the the press do you use one of those universal deprimers?? For those I gather you still have to lube the brass (say 5.56) correct?

2. So if you use the wax lube like Imperial. How do you lube up a batch of say 500 (or more) pieces of brass with the wax lube?. I have one of those lube pads and to roll 500 or more seems a bit tedious.

3. OK, now that the brass is deprimed, how do you prime it? Using a hand primer or one of those bench mounted units?? Do you reclean your brass to get the lube off.??

4. Now it is all cleaned, and primed, do you then size it (remove deprime pin) on the progressive and then charge and seat the bullet.??

Thanks and Merry Christmas to all.

There are four questions here, so I will answer them in-order:

1. I only use a universal de-primer if a military crimp needs to be removed. Otherwise I use a normal FL resizing die for "new" brass to de-prime and re-size.

2. I hand-lube with Imperial Sizing Wax and their Dry Neck Lube (if needed). The most recent rifles I did this for was .30Carbine and 7.62mm.

3. Depends on what I feel like doing. I may use a hand-primer or use the 550 priming station if I decide to prime and finish loading at the same time.

4. I hand-clean the wax and lube off with a paper towel, but since is is applied so thinly, this step is done for neatness only and I could skip it if I wished.

Merry Christmas!

 

[Varminterror]

I don't know anyone that claims you should process or load dirty brass, most manufacturers also sell cleaning equipment they like to sell too.

Every progressive is designed to allow "progressive" cranking from decapping step to a final seating or crimping step. Every product video for the machines shows exactly that, going into the press in one station to be sized and deprimed, then coming out the one and only time it is removed from the press as a loaded round.

So while the product videos don't actually depict loading dirty rounds, if a guy actually replicated the video, they would be doing so (obvious exception is factory fresh reloading brass).

The point you seem to have missed in my post is that none of us posting above actually tend to leave the case in the press for all stations, so it's never really a purely continuous, non-batch operation, as some of the advertising might make it seem.

 

[Chuck R.]

My "normal" process depends on the rifle it's being loaded for, the only .223/5.56 ammo I load on the Dillon is for the AR, the bolt .223 gets treated like other precision stuff. The majority of the ammo I load for the AR is used for classes, plinking and an occasional 3 gun match. I don't spend a lot of time on brass prep, cause the odds are I'm not getting it back, also 1.5 MOA out of my carbine is GTG.

For the AR:

1. Decap using universal decapping die;
2. Tumble with steel media 1.5hrs to clean and get the primer pockets clean.
3. Resize a few to check OAL after resizing. This step determines IF I'll run them straight through the Dillon using an RCBS SB "X" die or not.
3A. IF the brass needs trimming it gets run through a RCBS FL SB die on a single stage press, then the lubed cleaned off, then run through a TRIM-IT II to trim-de-burr etc. Once it's trimmed it goes through the 550, skipping the sizing step.
3B. IF Brass is OK for FL, I'll spray lube and run through the Dillon I also prime using 550 system.

4. Wipe off excess lube, vibrate in corncob for approx 45 minute to get the rest of the lube off.

The above is only for large batches of 500-1000 rounds at a time. Ammo for bolt guns or small lots with specialty bullets gets treated like any other rifle ammo on a single stage.

I also use one of the RCBS bench priming tools that's pictured, it's fast, but allows for a "feel" when seating.

Chuck

 

[Laphroaig]

none of us posting above actually tend to leave the case in the press for all stations

I must be the exception. IMO if you have to remove the brass to hand prime, you might as well load single stage. But I don't use the Dillon powder measure for rifle rounds so I might be different in that regard .

I tumble before loading, and use Hornady one shot lube for rifle cartridges ( which I have learned how to properly apply ) which isn't very messy. I only use my Dillon on my big volume rounds, .45acp, 9mm, .223 and 30-06. The 550B auto priming isn't bad. I'll admit not the same as hand priming, and I've learned I must do a final check on my finished rounds since you don't touch them again until they fall out the other end. But you should do that anyway.

It was last years Christmas present so I'm still learning some of the fine points. I've spilled more powder last year than my previous 48 years of loading combined. I cringe when I read a post about a newbie who thinks its best to start out on a progressive.

 

[Captaingyro]

I don't prime on the progressive. Here is my process:

1. When I get home from the range I simply rinse all of my brass in clear water to get the dust, dirt, sand, etc. off. I let it dry on a towel. At this point it's clean enough to reload for a lot of guys, and it's certainly clean enough to send through the sizing die.

2. I size and deprime on the progressive, with just the sizing die in station one. I use just a little Imperial Sizing Wax on the fingers that are feeding the brass into the press. Even though I have carbide dies I find the bit of lube makes things go smoother and easier.

3. Wet tumble with stainless pins, ArmorAll Wash & Wax and a bit of LemiShine. At this point the brass is clean and shiny and the lube has been removed.

4. Prime using the RCBS APS system. I have both the bench top and hand priming tools, and use either as appropriate, although the bench-mounted tool primes brass incredibly fast with good feel.

5. Load on the progressive. The five stations are: Flare, Charge, Powder Check, Seat, Crimp. Because I start with clean, sized and primed cases the loading process is amazingly trouble-free and fast (but not rushed.)

 

[Cannibul]

For pistol rounds I clean the brass then I reload it. Doesn't matter if I'm using my LnL or 650.

Rifle rounds are a bit more complicated.

First reloading with military stuff I use a Lyman universal decapping die on the rounds. Swage the primer pockets and then clean the brass. Next is resizing and trimming. Then I can run it all through the press to reload.

Second reloading I clean the brass and run it though the machine. However I do use a RCBS X Die so trimming isn't necessary.

If I had a Dillon 1050 I could start with clean brass and never have it leave the machine.

 

[RealGun]

Every progressive is designed to allow "progressive" cranking from decapping step to a final seating or crimping step. Every product video for the machines shows exactly that, going into the press in one station to be sized and deprimed, then coming out the one and only time it is removed from the press as a loaded round.

So while the product videos don't actually depict loading dirty rounds, if a guy actually replicated the video, they would be doing so (obvious exception is factory fresh reloading brass).

The point you seem to have missed in my post is that none of us posting above actually tend to leave the case in the press for all stations, so it's never really a purely continuous, non-batch operation, as some of the advertising might make it seem.

I read this as argumentative. Are you meaning to say that rifle brass is not cleaned with spent primer intact? Clearly, quality reloading is not done with dirty brass per se.

 

[Varminterror]

This is why I commented on here - I've always assumed there were guys out there who ran top to bottom without pulling the cases out, but I've never met one until this thread. Whether it's trimming after sizing, depriming then cleaning, neck turning, annealing, sizing then cleaning the lube, pocket reaming/swaging, or something else, everyone I've ever heard describe their "progressive" process still do something along the way as batch.

I'm not saying any way is better than another, just saying it seems like we all still get stuck doing a lot of batch work, which often really limits the utility of the "crank 'til you drop" progressive presses.

I must be the exception

Maybe you are - do you deprime dirty brass, resize, then keep cranking the handle? I never said anything about priming out of the press, but I've never actually met a reloader who didn't remove the brass for at least one function. If you really don't, then now I have. But I do have a lot of questions if that's the case.

Or are you cleaning brass with the spent primers in place like Realgun? Again, I have questions to go along with that - do you not clean your primer pockets and inspect flash holes? Do you not remove case lube after sizing?

Are you meaning to say that rifle brass is not cleaned with spent primer intact?

Not sure how the primer pockets get cleaned if you leave spent primers in place. I never would, but if you do tumble with primers in place then go front to back in the press, then you're the ONE I have "met" who legitimately uses their progressive press completely as a progressive.

Do you not clean the sizing lube from the cases before priming and charging also? Or are you only loading pistol cartridges that way without lube? Are you not cleaning pockets and inspecting flash holes? Is that a "bulk loading" only practice for you, as in ammo where precision isn't as critical, or maybe only for handgun ammo, or all ammo?

I've always assumed there was SOMEBODY out there who put a spent primed case into the press and pulled the handle until a loaded round came out - doing all steps of sizing, depriming, priming, (expanding for handguns), charging, seating, and crimping all without ever taking the case out of the press.

If there really are folks who do a complete front to back without ever taking cases out of the press, I've never met them. As I mentioned above, the best process I've come up with so far has been to deprime and clean on a single stage, lube, size on the progressive as a single stage, clean the lube, then go back and crank through (expanding) charging, seating, and crimping. In that, I still have two batch steps before each pull of the handle becomes a loaded round. Until these two, I have never heard of anyone who really stuck a case in the press and never took it out before it was a loaded round.

 

[RealGun]

This is why I commented on here - I've always assumed there were guys out there who ran top to bottom without pulling the cases out, but I've never met one until this thread. Whether it's trimming after sizing, depriming then cleaning, neck turning, annealing, sizing then cleaning the lube, pocket reaming/swaging, or something else, everyone I've ever heard describe their "progressive" process still do something along the way as batch.

I'm not saying any way is better than another, just saying it seems like we all still get stuck doing a lot of batch work, which often really limits the utility of the "crank 'til you drop" progressive presses.



Maybe you are - do you deprime dirty brass, resize, then keep cranking the handle? I never said anything about priming out of the press, but I've never actually met a reloader who didn't remove the brass for at least one function. If you really don't, then now I have. But I do have a lot of questions if that's the case.

Or are you cleaning brass with the spent primers in place like Realgun? Again, I have questions to go along with that - do you not clean your primer pockets and inspect flash holes? Do you not remove case lube after sizing?



Not sure how the primer pockets get cleaned if you leave spent primers in place. I never would, but if you do tumble with primers in place then go front to back in the press, then you're the ONE I have "met" who legitimately uses their progressive press completely as a progressive.

Do you not clean the sizing lube from the cases before priming and charging also? Or are you only loading pistol cartridges that way without lube? Are you not cleaning pockets and inspecting flash holes? Is that a "bulk loading" only practice for you, as in ammo where precision isn't as critical, or maybe only for handgun ammo, or all ammo?

I've always assumed there was SOMEBODY out there who put a spent primed case into the press and pulled the handle until a loaded round came out - doing all steps of sizing, depriming, priming, (expanding for handguns), charging, seating, and crimping all without ever taking the case out of the press.

If there really are folks who do a complete front to back without ever taking cases out of the press, I've never met them. As I mentioned above, the best process I've come up with so far has been to deprime and clean on a single stage, lube, size on the progressive as a single stage, clean the lube, then go back and crank through (expanding) charging, seating, and crimping. In that, I still have two batch steps before each pull of the handle becomes a loaded round. Until these two, I have never heard of anyone who really stuck a case in the press and never took it out before it was a loaded round.

There needs to be a separate discussion for rifle versus handgun. You certainly should have met someone who loads "clean" brass that retains a spent primer, who believes it doesn't make any difference, and who has had no problems doing that, except maybe a stubborn primer once in awhile that doesn't want to come out on the first attempt.

Rifle reloading is very much a different subject. There are even fewer dies in the die sets. I would expect that decapping would be part of the case preparation, but I would not miss the automation of the progressive with case feeder. I would not run dirty brass, so I would just put it in a bucket with Armor All Wash & Wax, dry it in the dehydrator, and use the univeral decapper, fed by the case feeder and no other dies mounted. Resizing and the rest of the prep would be done with these washed cases. The actually tumbling would be last before priming on the press, but media stuck in primer holes comes with it. I might be inspecting and poking, while loading up the case feeder hopper. Wet tumbling is not in every shop but would be a good answer.

I wouldn't expect that rifle reloading would use all of the press's capabilities for handgun loading (straight wall brass), but there is no question that handgun brass that is simply washed and dried, spent primer intact, can be run start to finish without preliminaries or interruption for a batch operation. I recognize that as an imperfect process requiring some supervision and finessing, but the productivity is still justifying doing it that way, and the ammo can still be first class.

 

[Blue68f100]

Rule3, referenced loading 5.56/223 not pistol ammo. I stated my process for 223R general practice ammo. All BE loads are done on a SS press.

As for high volume pistol ammo. I run the brass through a tumbler, 50/50 mix. Once clean it goes into the brass feeder hopper and loaded start to finish. I never touch the brass. I do keep a can of air to keep the primer station clean of debree, use as needed.

 

[Rule3]

OK, thanks guys.

Yes, I was asking about large amounts of rifle (223/556) brass. The "wax on wax off" method seemed time consuming to me. but that is JMO. ( even spritz my handgun brass a little,even with carbide dies, it does make it easier)

I do not have a separate universal depriming die and may have to get one of those.I clean, spray lube resize and deprime then measure/trim if needed then just load. The small amount of water based lube just comes off with handling so I do not worry about it.

Other than that, most methods are pretty similar.

 

[Laphroaig]

Maybe you are - do you deprime dirty brass, resize, then keep cranking the handle? I never said anything about priming out of the press, but I've never actually met a reloader who didn't remove the brass for at least one function. If you really don't, then now I have. But I do have a lot of questions if that's the case.

Or are you cleaning brass with the spent primers in place like Realgun? Again, I have questions to go along with that - do you not clean your primer pockets and inspect flash holes? Do you not remove case lube after sizing?

Answer #1 = the first sentence of Paragraph 2 in my post clearly states that I tumble before starting to load, thereby starting with clean brass.

Answer #2 = As for primer pocket cleaning, I used to worry about primer pockets when I first started reloading, but not so much now. I don't think that it makes a big difference as long as they aren't plugged up or otherwise damaged in some way. I use x-dies for progressive rifle rounds, generally anneal after 3 loadings if I like that batch of brass, and then run them through my case prep center. That might be the only time a pocket gets cleaned.

Answer #3 - Hornady One shot does not leave a big mess, and you could use them as is. However, I generally wipe them off or give a quick tumble before putting them in an ammo box for use.

Answer #4 - for pistol, there's no debate in my mind, carbide dies, no lube, progressive start to finish.

Different strokes for different folks. VT, I almost think you are suggesting I load junk ammo. Actually, I think that my product is accurate, serviceable ammunition for my intended uses. The Dillon is a fine press that was designed for fully progressive loading of both rifle and pistol ammo. As I said I've only been using it for a little less than one year. I'm still learning the tricks.

I use most of my .223 and 30-06 ammo for NRA and CMP service rifle competition. Its definitely different than benchrest, in that the shooter plays a big part in the final score. Here's a target shot with my "fully progressive" ammunition.

This doesn't happen very often, and when it doesn't I don't blame my ammunition. Shot rapid fire, by the way. 10 shots in 80 seconds with a 5 shot stripper clip reload. Iron sights, as-issued M1917 Eddystone rifle.

 

[Laphroaig]

Its definitely different than benchrest, in that the shooter plays a big part in the final score.

Rereading my post I could have said this better. Of course the shooter plays a big part in both games. Its just in position shooting the shooter must support the rifle with his body and there are rules governing trigger weights, sights and the like. Accordingly, the required precision is less. In CMP games type shooting, the rifle might be almost 100 years old, as is my 1918 manufactured Eddystone.

 

[blue32]

Use a Dillon 550b. If 223, then lube, size, trim if necessary, prime, remove lube, continue with progressive procedure. For 260 rem, lube, size, check for COAL/trim, prime, powder by hand, seat. For 32-20, lube, normal progressive procedure, remove lube. For everything a single stage does the progressive (without auto index) can do just fine, with the exception of the feeling primer pocket looseness when priming by hand.

 

[Walkalong]

Rereading my post I could have said this better. Of course the shooter plays a big part in both games. Its just in position shooting the shooter must support the rifle with his body and there are rules governing trigger weights, sights and the like. Accordingly, the required precision is less. In CMP games type shooting, the rifle might be almost 100 years old, as is my 1918 manufactured Eddystone.

Yes, more room for physical human error in NRA and CMP service rifle competition than Benchrest as there is much more contact with the rifle in less forgiving way.

I load .308 "Match" ammo on the LNL. Size/decap on the LNL, tumble to remove lube, trim/deburr/chamfer, tumble again for a short time, then load on the LNL. True, nothing going on then but powder dumping and bullet seating, just like companies loading match ammo with new cases, all "progressive". It will shoot extremely well from the prone position required in F-Class.

 

[Wreck-n-Crew]

I wet tumble my pistol brass, dry it, the run it straight through the progressive press. I dont care about primer pockets for the most part when it comes to pistol anmo.

I loaded 8,000 and shot 7,000 9mm this year. Loaded 1,800 and shot 1,300 10mm. Short year for range time but i spent less time at the press reloading.

I cast, coat and size my own pistol bullets as well as bullets for a buddy who shoots more than me. So time can get away from me quick.

As far as rifle, im only loading 270 win and in small amounts. Still developing loads. The 270 i do differently on a single stage.

 

[Dudedog]

I do a quick clean on all brass in corncob in my old Frankford tumbler.
.223 I deprime on my Lee turret.
Pistol I deprime and flair on my LNL,
Then I wet tumble and hand prime both.
Pistol I load one the LNL unless it is a small batch.
I have been loading .223 on the turret but may try the LNL since I now have a .380/223 shell plate.
For me it is just noce to be able to load n the LNL and not have to worry about priming at the same time.
(I have primed on the LNL but I can watch football etc and prime cases with my Lee hand primer)

 

[RealGun]

I do a quick clean on all brass in corncob in my old Frankford tumbler.
.223 I deprime on my Lee turret.
Pistol I deprime and flair on my LNL,
Then I wet tumble and hand prime both.
Pistol I load one the LNL unless it is a small batch.
I have been loading .223 on the turret but may try the LNL since I now have a .380/223 shell plate.
For me it is just noce to be able to load n the LNL and not have to worry about priming at the same time.
(I have primed on the LNL but I can watch football etc and prime cases with my Lee hand primer)

As soon as my case feeder plate arrives tomorrow, I will be decapping on the LnL. Hand filling the case feeder drop tube has shown that this works well in concept, eliminating all the handling of cases, certainly 95%, once I can just dump cases in the hopper. I am using a single station, but once the shell plate is full, every handle pull dumps a case ready for tumbling.

I plan to do the same thing for sizing as a single operation. I plan to try priming as part of the final loading cycle; prime, powder, seat/crimp. My LnL does a good job of priming but it has an updated subplate and priming assembly YMMV. These are things that seem like a natural way of exploiting a case feeder for rifle reloading. We'll see.

 

[jmorris]

I clean, spray lube resize and deprime then measure/trim if needed then just load.

Yep, that's it in one sentence.

 

[RealGun]

I clean, spray lube resize and deprime then measure/trim if needed then just load.

Yep, that's it in one sentence.

Is it correct that doing it that way leaves the primer pockets untreated?

 

[jmorris]

Yes, but I have fired hundreds of thousands of rounds with dirty pockets, they shoot just as accurately as ones that are more photogenic.

 

[RealGun]

Yes, but I have fired hundreds of thousands of rounds with dirty pockets, they shoot just as accurately as ones that are more photogenic.

Thanks...just wanted to make sure, not to challenge. I am reloading 223 as my first rifle cartridge and as part of a New Year's resolution to pay more attention to my rifles. I am also wanting to start casting, although I have had the equipment and supplies for some years now, bought just in case, but now to become a hobby with benefits.

I do expect that my primer pockets will get clean, if I am tumbling to remove lube after sizing, which includes decapping. My initial cleaning is just wash and dry.

 

[Fine Figure of a Man]

On my progressive I load 223 and several handgun rounds. For practice ammo I wet tumble brass, lube with One Shot, then run it through the press. Dirty primer pockets have never caused a problem.
For more serious target shooting, hunting and carry ammo (yea I load my own). I use a single stage press or run the progressive one station at a time, weigh brass and powder, trim, clean pockets, etc.

 

[jmorris]

If you tumble to remove the lube, after sizing and before loading, with corncob or walnut, you will more than likely have to run them through a decap die again or pick individual pockets clean with something. Little bits like getting stuck in the flash hole.

 

[Jeff H]

If you tumble to remove the lube, after sizing and before loading, with corncob or walnut, you will more than likely have to run them through a decap die again or pick individual pockets clean with something. Little bits like getting stuck in the flash hole.

Yes, been there, done that and have the T-Shirt. Never again. I just tumble the finished rounds.