(TX "SYG" Case) Retired Firefighter Shoots Neighbor, Claims Self-Defense

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I understand people's concern with the openly anti-2A tone taken by the prosecutor. For those of you that don't know, not ALL of Texas is conservative. Houston is our New Jersey (PROFOUND apologies to our members from New Jersey! Mark Twain once remarked that calling a man an jackass does a disservice to the ass... and I did just compare NJ to Houston). I'm pretty sure the Mayor of Houston (only 'strong' mayoral city in TX) would ban firearms inside the city limits altogether, if State premption laws didn't stop him. I would EXPECT anti-gun rhetoric to flow like sewer sludge from ANY Houston-area political office (and the DAs are elected, and most DEFINITELY politicians).
 
Whenever we have a vivid instance of the misuse of a firearm, antis will try to generalize it to all gun users and try to take the gun laws down.

However, we've survived VT, Columbine, Fort Hood and others. I don't think this person's case would have a chance of doing anything legislative in TX.

But he is a fool - he seems to be spouting some misunderstood CHL lecture as mentioned elsewhere.

Also, it does point out that when we debate whether some factor influences the jury - someone says : If it is a good shoot, blah, blah.

Well, this guy seems to think it was a good shoot. - So don't count on it.
 
I think what this reenforces is the need to stop worrying about mantras like saying you're in fear of your life. Remember instead you aren't to be brandishing or shooting unless you're facing imminent, unlawful deadly force. And that if you have a chance to get out of there, take it. In this case he kept repeating he was in fear of his life when the drunks were palms up and presenting an annoyance more than a threat. He was over there, armed, on THEIR property, because of a nuisance. That's stupid from the start.

Remember the basics, don't get hung up on all the nonsense about what kind of ammo, what words to repeat, etc. Don't shoot anyone you don't HAVE to shoot.
 
that rodriguez is nuts. I hope he gets a long prison term myself. I ccw and have walked away from several 'instances' when the others were just drinking, obnoxious but no guns on them I could tell. they didn't offer to attack me though maybe they figured I was too sober for their efforts.
 
Don't shoot anyone you don't HAVE to shoot.

is it weird that someone actually has to SAY this? but i think it needed saying...
killing another human being is awful. sometimes it's necessary, but sometimes it's just pride and anger spilling out... and then it's wrong. the law is there to codify and standardize this moral concept, not replace it.
 
Don't shoot anyone you don't HAVE to shoot.

And don't say "I'm GOING to have to defend myself".

If things get that sideways while you're at your neighbors house the only thing you need to be saying is "I'm getting the HECK away from here as FAST as I can".
 
Yeah, this guy is going to get murder 1 if the news reports are correct.

One of his past neighbors is going to testify that Rodriguez did the same thing with their family (Come over to complain, create a scene, pull a gun and claim he was in fear for his life). He also apparently was the only person the local firefighters union ever kicked out . They gave him the axe for being "divisive and paranoid.". According to this article, Rodriguez had engaged in similar behavior in his old neighborhood.
Source: http://www.khou.com/home/Former-neighbors-union-Rodriguez-always-paranoid-157943785.html


Additionally ABC 13 in Houston reports that the jury will not hear the testimony of a neighbor who claims that Rodriguez bragged to her that you could basically shoot anyone you wanted as long as you said you were in fear for your life.
 
Additionally ABC 13 in Houston reports that the jury will not hear the testimony of a neighbor who claims that Rodriguez bragged to her that you could basically shoot anyone you wanted as long as you said you were in fear for your life.

Given the rest of his (moronic) actions, I don't think they will have to.

If what I have read is anywhere near accurate, this guy is going to fry, and deservedly so.
 
My understanding is the jury won't hear the neighbor who testified that Rodriguez said you could shoot someone as long as you were in fear for your life. Hearsay exception I guess. I think they will still get to hear the testimony of the neighbors from his previous home next week - though if the defense can get that thrown out, it would go a long way towards keeping Rodriguez out of jail.
 
Tennessee SD law would not protect him; first off, he was not where he had a right to be (test number one). And I believe Texas is similar: he would have to be on his own property or an invited guest on the other's private party or in a public place where carry is not barred.

It sounds like he got his info on stand your ground from Brady Campaign or VPC.
 
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Another thing that really bothered me was the other day the prosecutor told the jury that Rodriguez was the kind of person that "even when he went outside he had a concealed gun on him with an extra clip".
Actually that was his own attorney. From the article:
Stradley said Rodriguez is the kind of CHL holder who wears a holstered gun and an extra clip just to go outside.
And was he indeed on the dead guy's driveway? Or sidewalk? Or in the street in front of the driveway? Here we have a public sidewalk that runs between my driveway and approach. So somebody can be standing "in my driveway" sort of, and not be trespassing. And they have a perfect right to be there.

Fit were me I would have simply left, letting them know it had been filmed, and given the cops the film, as we have working noise ordinances. Then it would be up to them if they wanted to escalate it further by coming to MY house. Unfortunately, being drunks, that would be a possibility. But I would be in a much better legal spot had I actually had to defend myself. JMO.
 
This is real life imitating satire-- google "south park coming right for us".

Who provoked whom first is going to be one of the debatable points. To me, just because the neighbor is being noisy doesn't make them the provacatuer. Based on some of the laws posted by BR, the defense will have to make that claim if they're going to stick to justified self defense.
 
wish I was on the jury. I would acquit the guy. I admit that I hate loud music partiers--amazing how stupid people not caring about their loud music at night when working men have to sleep. The victim was in the public street and the loud music playing and loud mouth drunks looking for a fight and came down to confront him. Even after they saw he was armed, they stood there talking smack, threatened to go home and get his gun, and then attacked him. I'd acquit him in a heartbeat.
 
wish I was on the jury. I would acquit the guy. I admit that I hate loud music partiers--amazing how stupid people not caring about their loud music at night when working men have to sleep. The victim was in the public street and the loud music playing and loud mouth drunks looking for a fight and came down to confront him. Even after they saw he was armed, they stood there talking smack, threatened to go home and get his gun, and then attacked him. I'd acquit him in a heartbeat.

Please print this out and be sure to share it during the voir dire process if you are selected for jury duty.
 
If he 'feared for his life', why didn't just go back home? He was there for how long? It looked to be an elapsed time of at least 15 minutes and maybe a half hour or so. How does he explain to a reasonable person that he really thought they were going to kill him, so he decided stay right there? Just doesn't add up.
 
wish I was on the jury. I would acquit the guy. I admit that I hate loud music partiers--amazing how stupid people not caring about their loud music at night when working men have to sleep. The victim was in the public street and the loud music playing and loud mouth drunks looking for a fight and came down to confront him. Even after they saw he was armed, they stood there talking smack, threatened to go home and get his gun, and then attacked him. I'd acquit him in a heartbeat.

Too bad none of those things are a direct threat to anyone's life, limb or eyesight.

Remember. We are not cops. We call cops. We don't hang around in places we're not welcome, we don't use guns as magic talismani to get the neighbor to shut up their music, stop the dog from pooping on the lawn or to stop their son from dating our daughter.

The CCL, cHL or whatever holder can carry a gun and use it legally to defend their own life or that of others. Not "working man" decency, the virginity of their daughter, their lawns, good public taste or some other notion.

I really don't understand how this simple concept of direct and imminent self defense is so hard for some people to understand.
 
This one is venturing into the same territory as the Zimmerman discussions - speculation without benefit of new information.

Let's stick to known facts, with relevance to ST&T, please.
 
something to keep in mind when dealing with folks. they might be as crazy as this guy. plan and act accordingly

lots of folks get in trouble assuming other folks think rationally
 
Johnson (DA) attempted to introduce evidence showing that Rodriguez had a history of threatening neighbors by brandishing his gun. But state District Judge David Mendoza did not allow the evidence.

I wonder what the evidence for that actually was, if it was police reports or just called witnesses to the stand. I am assuming it isn't any sort of police report or that if it was, it was never substantiated via any sort of conviction or otherwise Rodriquez would have lost his CHL.
 
wonder what the evidence for that actually was

From my understanding, a neighbor was going to testify that Rodriguez had said you could basically shoot anyone as long as you said you were in fear for your life.

In this previous link: http://www.khou.com/home/Former-neighbors-union-Rodriguez-always-paranoid-157943785.htm

One of Rodriguez's former neighbors told a Houston news reporter that "Rodriguez often showed off his gun, argued with adults and children and had confrontations in his old neighborhood similar to what was caught on tape" and "“He did that to my ex-husband,” Johnson said. “He didn’t do that to us out here in the road, but police when they came to my house said he really knows his handbook real well because he used the right words. He said that my ex-husband was coming at him in an aggressive way on his property.”

Johnson and some of the firefighters Rodriguez worked with were subpoenaed to testify; but right now it is unclear what testimony the judge allowed and did not allow. They weren't in session Friday, so it will probably be tomorrow before there is anything new to report.
 
Well it sounds like the guy was a bully with a gun. The type of guy that without a gun wouldn't have felt comfortable being a bully, but that with a gun felt empowered to bully.
That combines into a worse combination than your typical bully, because he will revert to a gun in most cases.


However that may all be inadmissible in court, and so only the facts of the specific incident may matter.
In that case it seems quite difficult to argue he felt in fear of his life yet chose to remain in the situation for a prolonged period of time. He pulled a gun, yet then chose to stay for quite awhile after, arguing.


rod5591 it is certainly understandable to be upset with people, document an issue like loud noise, or even confront them.
I have had loud neighbors, including ones that would party not just on the weekend, but a couple times in the middle of the week routinely. Playing loud music, music with heavy bass, and music with profanity.
I have heard drunks out picking fights with each other at such parties, including the host, and grown men sounding like high school juveniles challenging and intimidating one another in some juvenile pecking order.
Well another neighbor would often call the police, who would arrive hours later. They would just start up again later or at the next party, which they had at least a few times a week. So the issue doesn't get resolved.
But what do you do? Obviously hostility with such a crowd is just going to lead to violence, and responsible adults don't put themselves in situations that will result in violence or they get criminal records or worse. Justified or not, the court will eventually go against you even if you do everything legally right each time, it is not the movies where justice prevails. You need to avoid most situations that you legally can.
So yes I can certainly understand the situation.

(There are a few situations that legally you must confront, like a property owner has a duty to confront trespassers, otherwise they gain legal right to easements over time and can even adversely possess or take ownership of the land. Property owners are legally bound to confront them or deal with the legal repercussions. In certain professions you have a legal duty to confront people breaking certain rules or laws, or you can be legally liable if they or someone else is injured or worse. You become negligent in your duties which allowed such a thing to happen if you don't confront them.
However in most other situations you have a choice, and the more confrontations you put yourself in the more you stack the odds against yourself.)


In this specific case he clearly was not going to accomplish anything with his communication skills to get the music turned down. He seemed intent on a hostile scene and not just on documenting the situation. He was looking for an altercation, and when he got one immediately reverted to words that obviously he is using to bring a gun into the situation.
He is stating words to bring a gun into the situation, rather than really trying to diffuse the situation or leave.
Now it does sound like the neighbors are a little nicer because there is a camera involved, they even make note of it at some point in the video, and it appears to discourage some course of action they may have taken otherwise.
So this is a crowd that would probably be even worse without the camera there, and may have been nastier at previous times.
After pulling his gun, and having no attack and ample opportunity to leave what has clearly just been escalated by him or others (court can decide that) into a situation so severe it supposedly needed the threat of deadly force, he then chooses to remain. Not just remain briefly, but remain and argue as the situation continues to get worse.
He clearly does not want to leave, but wants to continue the hostile situation in defiance.
Eventually he gets attacked and ends up shooting several people.
He is certainly not entirely at fault, but he is partially at fault. Partially at fault when people get shot is a bad thing.
 
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cassandrasdaddy said:
something to keep in mind when dealing with folks. they might be as crazy as this guy. plan and act accordingly

It's interesting that despite condemning the accused, people responding to the thread (as far as I saw) failed to post perspectives indicating that they could end up on the other end of the equation.

Standing off with a (possible - don't want to speculate without evidence) unbalanced CCW holder guy looking to "defend" himself against you is a bad place to be. I know it's not PC to say that on a gun forum but it could happen.

Not to "blame the victim" but what could the deceased have done differently? Anyone who's spent more time studying this than I have can feel free to answer...
 
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