Typo or BS Hypersonic 223

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Kachok

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Just noticed something on the box for the new Remington Hypersonic 223 ammo, turns out they are recommending it for deer and ELK HUNTING! OK I get it some people are determined to hunt deer with their beloved ARs and they refuse to listen to any criticism of that, and as long as they stay within it's limitations and getting clean kills I really don't care, but to recommend a 223 load as an elk cartridge is simply going too far over the crazy cliff, that is not even legal in any state I know of. I really hope that is some kind of typo on midway if not I am going to wright Remington a really nasty letter.
http://www.midwayusa.com/product/79...okt-ultra-bonded-pointed-soft-point-box-of-20
 
I think they are implying that SOME of the Hypersonic line is acceptable for elk hunting, not necessarily the .223 load. I followed the link you provided, but I couldn't find any claim that the .223 load was intended for use on elk-sized game, aside form the picture on the box. Its probably a generic image of the hypersonic box, with some loadings in OTHER calibers being perfectly ok elk medicine. I saw no claim whatsoever that Remington was promoting the 223 as an elk rifle from the link you provided, just a picture of an ammo box that apparently got you all sorts of riled up? Its abrand new line of ammo. Nothing is to say those boxes will even be used on the finished product at this point
 
So if I make a dangerous game hunting logo and put it on my generic box of 22LR you think that that is rational as long as I make something like it in 458 Win Mag? Sound stupid to me, how about you don't print that on the box of 223 and print it on the others that are intended for elk class game, I worked in the printing industry for years trust me that is not hard to do.
 
You and me both know the 223 is not an elk cartridge, but trust me there are plenty of people out there who have no earthly idea, I ran into a guy yesterday who thought deer hunting with 223 V-Max was a good idea because the fragments would go through the heart and stuff, some people have no clue and they would believe that, heck some believe anything they read in an advertisement, I had one guy tell me using my RL22 powder was a bad idea because it was "temperature sensitive" unlike the powder he saw advertised, and to make it worse the guy had not even started handloading yet, trying to correct years of experience with an advertisement. You think someone like that won't try to take a grizzly bear with a 22LR if I put the logo on his box?
 
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I'm not saying its "right" just offering a possible explanation. That said, I don't think we should have to put pictures on the box on any ammo to determine suitability. If you pick your ammo based on a cartoon on the box, well..........that says a lot about what kind of hunter or shooter you really are. I'm frankly tired of the dumbing down of society to the point we have to put cartoon images on ammo boxes to clue people into what the ammo is used for. We continually focus on the lowest common denominator, rather than assuming, or even hoping, people have a bit of common sense....Like I said, I haven't even seen this ammo on the shelf yet, so its a bit of a jump to immediately assume this is the final packaging.
 
Dumbing down is right...confirmed it when I went to CCI's site and saw the Landry pair of alligator hunters billed as Experts.
Yeah, OK, expert alligator hunters maybe, but ammunition experts? Really? They shoot hook caught alligators in the head with a rifle from 2 ft away:rolleyes:

Don't even get me started on the whole Zomby marketing garbage....
 
This really is a bad thing because now the someone is going to believe their .223 good for Elk. Sometimes I'm amazed at how people perceive things.

Another thing that gets me is the amount of people that use match bullets for hunting because it has the highest BC.
 
Well most of that will be changing soon, Nosler has a line of super high BC bonded hunting bullets coming out, anyone still using Match Kings at that point for hunting is just being silly. Never saw the appeal of Match Kings on game, they either rupture or they don't, if they rupture you get horrific meat damage wherever the bullet decided to veer when it yawed, if if does not rupture you get a pencil hole and a very slow kill talk about a piss poor bullet hunting bullet, but that cannot be any worse then using V-Max which will certainly blow to bits and under penetrate every time,
 
Matchkings are terrible for killing - just ask the US military.

Oh, wait...

I'm a proponent of using the proper bullet for the job at hand (ie. a purpose built expanding bullet for hunting) BUT any match bullet can provide clean, ethical kills on game IF the shooter puts it where it needs to go.

Most think they can, while few are probably able to actually do so.
 
I think this is another example of overselling the product, a common affliction with Remington (and surrogates). No doubt a high velocity bonded bullet like that will be good for medium game, and an experienced elk hunter could make it work, but there are much better choices.


BoilerUP said:
Matchkings are terrible for killing - just ask the US military.

Oh, wait...

I'm a proponent of using the proper bullet for the job at hand (ie. a purpose built expanding bullet for hunting) BUT any match bullet can provide clean, ethical kills on game IF the shooter puts it where it needs to go.

Most think they can, while few are probably able to actually do so.
Click to expand...

.mil need and ethical hunting are not synonymous. I agree that the match bullets are capable when everything lines up right, but true hunting bullets provide better insurance against odd angles, heavy tissue and bone, or simple bullet failure (same can be said for cartridge selection too). The bonded and monolithic bullets give a little more insurance in addition to the thicker cupped traditional hunting bullets as well.
 
Pretty much all ammo and bullet makers do something similar. If you look at Nosler, Hornady, or most any other advertisements they will recommend the bullets use. For example Ballistic Tips are rated for one thing, Partitons, Accubonds, E-Tips, are all rated differently. It is by bullet type,but not caliber specific.

You'll see similar stuff with Federal and Winchester if you look close.
 
62 Grain Bullet Core-Lokt Ultra Bonded, expands 1.8 times, retains 95% of its weight, at 30 to 400 yds.

I do think it is a better small deer .223 Rem bullet than the typical 45gr to 55gr varmint bullet (which should never be used on big game).

Yeah, I am going to have to join OP in questioning that Elk logo on a box for 223 Remington. If the line goes to market with box, I would be disappointed in Remington.

The ad copy though says: "So when that trophy steps out at 30 yards or 400 yards you will have the perfect choice with Remington Hypersonic Bonded Rifle ammunition." I have a stuffed squirrel on top of my gun cabinet.
 
Oh no doubt it it a better choice then a varmint round for deer, and heck in the right hands it may even be a darn fine round for them but I have never seen an expanding 223 anything penetrate anywhere near what is considered minimum for elk and I would call the law on anyone I saw hunting them with such a weapon. There is simply no need for such nonsense, if someone is really recoil shy they can get a 260 or 7mm-08 I have seen little girls and shooting those at the range, oh and they can be chambered in an AR platform it that is what you like, and this nonsense about saving money with a 223 is laughable, I get 308win Core-Lokts for almost half what those Hypersonic 223s cost. Heck I can feed a 6.5x55 or 243 decent hunting bullets for less then cheap 223 fmjs cost right now.
 
Im a huge proponent of the 223/5.56 and know from experience what it can do. I believe it to be a marginal deer round that will work if you choose your shots and range properly. However I in no way think its a round that should be used for elk. In a survival situation Im positive a good neck shot would drop an elk but for ethical hunting no way.
 
Agree completely, there are a bunch of things I would do with a 223 in a survival situation that I would not dream of while I can reach my 30-06, 6.5x55, 7mm-08....etc Just as a rule I don't bring people hunting with 223s I will loan them a gun if need be. I have had a couple guys tell me they could not afford a separate hunting rifle, kind of hard to be sympathetic when the guy has a dressed out $4,200 AR and an $1,100 Sig 226 Elite on his hip, heck I bought a couple Savage 110s new for $300 probably less then he paid for he laser pointer on that AR.
 
When I actually read something where Remington advocates this 223 load as an elk round, I'll join in the outrage. Until then, I'm just not going to work myself up over a cartoon of an elk. I guess other things bother me far more.
 
Davek1977 said:
When I actually read something where Remington advocates this 223 load as an elk round, I'll join in the outrage. Until then, I'm just not going to work myself up over a cartoon of an elk. I guess other things bother me far more.
Click to expand...
Nobody is worked up, but did you look at the box? Sure looks like Remington is endorsing it. Outrage optional.
 
As an inexperienced hunter, I was very confused by the deer/elk pictures on boxes of 223. (My 14 year old is hesitant of the 30-30's recoil and wanted to use our AR, so I was looking.) Luckily, I had enough sense to also see the word varmint on the box and know something wasn't right. The salespeople were little help as I could tell they were guessing it was suitable ammo. My recollection is there were several different brands using a deer or elk picture on rounds that were intended for varmints. I wish ammo makers wouldn't do crap like that.

(I finally found a box of Barnes TSX for our deer hunting but we never got a shot. By this fall, I should have my Grendel. That should work well for deer.)
 
That box in that ad says .223 Remington on the box-end and says "deer" and "elk" on the box front. There are pictures of same but the words are there too. So it seems that Remington, at least at the time they crafted up the box in that photo, intended for somebody to buy that caliber for elk.

Take a look at the box closely. Nothing is implied. "Elk" is explicitly spelled out. Use the zoom feature. It's there.
 
jmr40 said it best...this isnt new....maybe for Remington, but not overall. Its denoting a class of bullet, IMO, and not recommending the exact load as elk medicine. If we do our shopping by looking at pictures instead of doing research, well..........I guess that is not what *I'd* do. Again, its a symptom of a greater problem...the overall dumbing down of society. When we look at pictures rather than critically research things to make our decisions, we're feeding the sorts of issues that inspire this thread. While not brilliant on Rem's part, I don't shoot alligator hunters with a 22 because they happen to be on a CCI ammo box, just like I dont shoot elk with a 223 round even if an elk is pictured on the Remington box. A tiny bit of common sense goes a long way, people.
 
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rhinoh said:
Don't even get me started on the whole Zomby marketing garbage....
Click to expand...

Kachok said:
Don't think I have ever seen zombie spelled that way before, I think we have all been dumbed down LOL
Click to expand...
Really? I was referring to the musician...

Or it was 0500 and I hadn't had my second cup yet:D
 
Yeah at those speeds a 223 would knock a basketball sized crater through any deer, that is if your mono metal titanium carbide bullets would hold together :D
 
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