U.S. carbine, caliber .30, M1

[CapnMac]

from a miniaturized version of rhe M1 garand.

That's a much held bit of lore, but has no basis in fact.

The design is almost entirely based on a Winchester self-loading design that was adapted to the War Department cartridge (the cartridge was developed and specified before the firearm was).

The well-known Achilles Heel of the Carbine is its magazine, which was a consequence of modifying the existing Winchester magazine to meed the emergent need for the weapon for trials and issuance.

Ordnance also recognized this, and kept asking for product improvements, but not if they interfered with delivery of completed weapons.

That has been the bane of the made-in-the-2000s commercial copies, too--they are very finicky with magazines. (Yet another example of not having the original tolerance specs, and instead working from some extant magazine.)

 

[AK103K]

Ive got a bunch of the Korean 15, and a few of their 30 round mags, and they work great. Cheap too.

Im only using a couple of the USGI mags I have now when I shoot, and if there is a stoppage, they are generally the mags in the guns when it happens. The Korean mags were a big part of increasing the reliability of the carbines I have. That, and rebuilding the bolts.

 

[CapnMac]

Im only using a couple of the USGI mags

That appears to be very common of late.
All I have are old USGI, acquired a long time ago (when extremely cheap; some still in brown paper). All the problematic ones have long since been culled.
Which makes it complicated for me to comment on the Korean mags, as I have no experience with them. Not even in the Universal I owned decades ago.

 

[Dave Markowitz]

Funny, I put some rounds through my 1943 Underwood this afternoon.

In modern terms, the M1 Carbine is a personal defense weapon (PDW). When viewed in that context it is still relevant. It's not a suitable substitute for a Garand, but were I to go in harm's way, I'd take my Underwood or 1944 Rock Ola over any pistol caliber SMG ever made.

The stories about winter clothing stopping M1 Carbine ammunition in Korea are total bullcrap. .30 Carbine Ball does not penetrate nearly as much as .30 M2 Ball or M2 AP, but it does penetrate clothing quite well, even when it's 1" thick and frozen solid. Sad to say, those GIs missed their targets; the bullets weren't stopped by the telegroikas worn by Chicom troops.

Ballistically, .30 Carbine is similar to .357 Magnum when fired from a carbine, but with a lighter bullet.

 

[lemaymiami]

Use a 30 carbine at pistol ranges with modern soft point ammo and it will be more than satisfactory on two-legged targets. Lightweight, quick pointing, when speed is life itself... That’s exactly why I have one.

In my world, south Florida, if I’m ever in a self defense situation away from home it will be next to my vehicle and very likely involve more than one opponent. Exactly what that carbine was designed for...

By the way, when everyone is quoting “357 power” as a comparison... it is just that, only at 100 yards down range does it slow down to 357 velocity...

 

[Alex Clayton]

I dont know beans about the M1 carbine. I have never shot one.
My fathers cousin lost his arm to polio as a boy. He was a hunter and firearm enthusiast. He loved his M1carbines dearly because He could shoot them easily and accurately with one arm.
I dont know the details, but i do know he took a nice bull elk with his M1 carbine.
An M1 carbine is on my list of wants.

When young and these things were VERY common, and cheap, at least compared to new stuff, I had known some who used them on game up to Deer. Up here we have the smaller Deer and as long as the hunter was responsible the round dropped them dead. When I think back on how many of these Mil-Surp passed through my hands I cringe thinking why did I not hang onto at least one. I would love to have another now days but the price for a nice one is OUCH. A few places have made what looked to be nice copies but every one of them seems to have QC problems. Too many horror stories of some poor person getting one that just would not work. For the price they sell for you would think with today's tech they could make them like they did so many decades back but so far does not seem to be happening. Many of the copies of course work great. If they did not no one would be buying but, enough end up with a problem to make me leery of trying.

 

[Alex Clayton]

Funny, I put some rounds through my 1943 Underwood this afternoon.

In modern terms, the M1 Carbine is a personal defense weapon (PDW). When viewed in that context it is still relevant. It's not a suitable substitute for a Garand, but were I to go in harm's way, I'd take my Underwood or 1944 Rock Ola over any pistol caliber SMG ever made.

The stories about winter clothing stopping M1 Carbine ammunition in Korea are total bullcrap. .30 Carbine Ball does not penetrate nearly as much as .30 M2 Ball or M2 AP, but it does penetrate clothing quite well, even when it's 1" thick and frozen solid. Sad to say, those GIs missed their targets; the bullets weren't stopped by the telegroikas worn by Chicom troops.

Ballistically, .30 Carbine is similar to .357 Magnum when fired from a carbine, but with a lighter bullet.

Most "urban legend" kind of stories, like the one often told about the M1 ammo not going through heavy clothing normally start with some "truth" that is then retold and soon no longer "original". During both WWII and Korea a lot of different guns and ammo cycled through. At times some was found to be "lacking" for times and targets. The .38 special the Military used was a great example. That round, in ball form, was NOT real good. Often some GI ended up with some though and of course at times it did not work well. The tales then after retold many times become other guns and calibers. No one shot someone in heavy clothing with an M1 and found the round did not get past the clothing. Kind of like the many decades of people who believed people when shot would be knocked off their feet. Before the net I used to have even Vets get angry and swear it was true. I would take them out to shoot and prove it did not happen. Many of them would stand there mouth open in shock. They were so convinced it was true they had a really hard time seeing it was not. Many urban legends die hard.

 

[Mosin77]

“Wow these .30 M2 Ball for the M1 (Garand) bullets are big. Look how mean and pointy they look next to these cute little .30 Carbine bullets. I bet that little carbine couldn’t hurt a fly! And when you shoot a clip from the Garand, boy you feel it! A girl could shoot this M1 Carbine! It’s way down on power.” Add some GIs who can’t hit the broad side of a barn, and you have the makings of a first class rumor that’s still with us today.

 

[film495]

in the era of Pistol Caliber Carbines, I'm sure the .30 Carbine is superior in ballistics to all of them. could be wrong, but I don't thik so.

 

[BLACKHAWKNJ]

I think the criticisms of the M1 Carbine's lack of stopping power come from Korea-a groggy and exhausted and sleep deprived GI or Marine trying to stop Chinese hordes at 0200 in subzero temperatures with the wind howling.