U.S. District Judge Strikes Down Post Office Ban

[Speedo66]

Now can we get a judge to allow us as private parties to mail handguns to FFL’s and ammo to other private parties?

Commercial shippers allow ammo, why not the PO?

 

[CapnMac]

and being unarmed in the parking lot. Not willing to leave my gun in the car.

That's just it, it's my understanding that USPS policy is that their entire property, including the parking lot is mandated as "gun free." Therefore, you commit an offense just by driving into the lot armed. This only applies to USPS property, though, a private joint, like Mailboxes Etc. or the like cannot enforce this.

This, in my experience, is not something they post on their properties--you are just meant to obey.

It's been a point of contention between the "gun community" and the PO for decades, too.

 

[JTHunter]

That's more of the picture. Failing to comply with a lawful order from LE is against the law and depending on what level of resistance is offered the offense can be enhanced. Arguing with the cops/resisting the cops is not productive. You can't get a trial while you are being arrested or getting a ticket so arguing like you are in a courtroom and citing law or precedent or the constitution is pretty much a waste of time and you're just going to add on charges. Even if you are later found innocent of the original offense that initiated the arrest/stop/citation, the resisting/failing to comply charges will likely still persist.

As I said, there's a lesson to be learned here for those who are inclined to learn lessons.

And that is where there can be a problem. A "lawful" order.
In the late 80s, I was on private property talking with some neighbors with a Marlin Golden 39A .22 lever action slung on my shoulder. A "local yokel" showed up and told me to follow him to his cruiser and bring the rifle with me. When I complied, he arrested me for carrying the gun on a "public street" and charged me with an IL-ANNOY "unlawful use" statute. If the "female dog" of an an attorney had bothered to fully inform me of the charge and the exemptions TO that charge, it would have been dropped at the trial as the gun was inoperable at the time. The fact that she failed to fully inform me doomed my case as I was able to get the gun back prior to trial and reinsert the firing pin that had been removed when the gun jammed.
After this fiasco, I read up on the statutes involved AND the exemptions. I also learned to NOT trust a cop when they tell me to do something, particularly if it sounds "sketchy".

 

[JohnKSa]

It's definitely worthwhile to know the law. The nice thing these days is that the proliferation of badgecams can really clear things up when there's a difference between what the cop says and the citizen says.

The fact that she failed to fully inform me...

Are you saying your own attorney didn't inform you properly and/or wasn't up on the law?

 

[hps1]

I don't care so much about not being armed inside the post office, but I do care about driving back and forth and being unarmed in the parking lot. Not willing to leave my gun in the car. So I grit my teeth, and only go straight there and straight home. I do wear a knife, but it's a far second choice to a gun.

Correct me if I'm wrong, but I am of the understanding that the ban applies in the parking lot as well, does it not?
ETA:

39 CFR § 232.1 - Conduct on postal property.
(l) Weapons and explosives. Notwithstanding the provisions of any other law, rule or regulation, no person while on postal property may carry firearms, other dangerous or deadly weapons, or explosives, either openly or concealed, or store the same on postal property, except for official purposes.

Post Office Parking Lot Decision (Texas)

Regards,
hps

 

[Insignificant bill]

When I visit I park on the street and lock my gun in a lock box hidden in my vehicle.

 

[old lady new shooter]

Correct me if I'm wrong, but I am of the understanding that the ban applies in the parking lot as well, does it not?
ETA:

Post Office Parking Lot Decision (Texas)

Regards,
hps

Yes it does. If I were willing to leave my gun in the car, which as I stated I am not, I could however park on the street. Which is why, as I stated, I go there gunless but only straight there and straight home.

Your post should have been addressed to @JDeere who in post https://www.thehighroad.org/index.p...kes-down-post-office-ban.926790/post-12806406 wrote that he leaves his gun in the car since the parking lot is "not posted".

 

[old lady new shooter]

Now can we get a judge to allow us as private parties to mail handguns to FFL’s and ammo to other private parties?

Commercial shippers allow ammo, why not the PO?

I was actually recently wondering about shipping to an FFL. So let's say I wanted to sell something on gunbroker, and the person who decides to buy is in another state and not an FFL, you imply I can't mail it to the FFL in the buyer's state, how would I go about shipping it?

 

[Speedo66]

Long guns can be mailed by private parties to an FFL, if they accept from private parties, many do.

Handguns would have to be sent via FFL to FFL

 

[JDeere]

Correct me if I'm wrong, but I am of the understanding that the ban applies in the parking lot as well, does it not?
ETA:

Post Office Parking Lot Decision (Texas)

Regards,
hps

The Post Office parking lot issue has always been debatable. I understand what the Feds say but as far as the parking lot, I'll decide before my next visit. I do understand Fed Law usually trumps state law.

 

[drobs]

I see people Open Carrying in my little middle of the nowhere Post Office where I have a PO Box. The Post Office shares the parking lot with 4 other businesses.

My rule is concealed is concealed. You can infer whatever you want out of that.

 

[hps1]

Yes it does. If I were willing to leave my gun in the car, which as I stated I am not, I could however park on the street. Which is why, as I stated, I go there gunless but only straight there and straight home.

Your post should have been addressed to @JDeere who in post https://www.thehighroad.org/index.p...kes-down-post-office-ban.926790/post-12806406 wrote that he leaves his gun in the car since the parking lot is "not posted".

Sorry. Actually shouldn't have addressed it at all; it was more of a question, as I was of the impression that the feds included their parking lots and our PO is such that there is no street parking in the vicinity so that did not enter my mind.

Several years ago, a friend and were going to the deer lease and I had a prescription @ the VA which was about half way to the deer lease, so decided to stop off on the way. Unfortunately, I was not aware about the federal parking lots being off limits at that time. Had two rifles in the rack in my pickup, partner waited in truck while I went in. Security guard approached my friend while I was inside, (very graciously) advised him it was illegal to have the firearms in lot and suggested he cover the rifles up. Again, no street parking nearby.

 

[old lady new shooter]

Long guns can be mailed by private parties to an FFL, if they accept from private parties, many do.

Handguns would have to be sent via FFL to FFL

Thanks.

Do UPS and FedEx have the same policy?

 

[old lady new shooter]

I see people Open Carrying in my little middle of the nowhere Post Office where I have a PO Box. The Post Office shares the parking lot with 4 other businesses.

My rule is concealed is concealed. You can infer whatever you want out of that.

ISTR that the parking lot prohibition only applies if the parking lot is NOT shared with other businesses. But nobody should rely on what ISTR, look it up.

Inside the Post Office is definitely, although arguably not rationally, prohibited. No idea whether the prohibition only applies during business hours.

 

[Speedo66]

Thanks.

Do UPS and FedEx have the same policy?

I believe both UPS and FedEx have stopped accepting guns by private parties, perhaps someone more knowledgeable will clarify.

UPS, at an actual hub location, not a “store”, will accept ammo for shipment If properly labeled.

 

[old lady new shooter]

I believe both UPS and FedEx have stopped accepting guns by private parties, perhaps someone more knowledgeable will clarify.

UPS, at an actual hub location, not a “store”, will accept ammo for shipment If properly labeled.

Thanks.

 

[Howland937]

As I said, there's a lesson to be learned here for those who are inclined to learn lessons

It's one I learned a long time ago. It worked out in the end and wasn't a costly lesson. Got pulled over for suspicion of impaired driving. (I was D.D. that night, ironically). Went through all the field sobriety tests and I'm informed I'm under arrest. I ask to take a breathalyzer, his is broken.
"Then you're not taking me anywhere until you get someone out here with one that works"
Resisting arrest.
I'd already been arrested, so from the back seat I informed the officer exactly how I felt toward him.
Disorderly conduct.
He told me to shut up, I didn't.
Failure to comply.

Arguing over your rights is pointless if your process involves doing something that jeopardizes those rights.

 

[CapnMac]

I can't mail it to the FFL in the buyer's state, how would I go about shipping it?

The legal presumption is that you would drive to your FFL, and give it to that party, who then packs it for delivery by USPS, who collects it afterwards as part of normal business mail services.

 

[old lady new shooter]

The legal presumption is that you would drive to your FFL, and give it to that party, who then packs it for delivery by USPS, who collects it afterwards as part of normal business mail services.

So I not only have to pay a fee to buy from out of state, I also have to pay a fee to sell to out of state.

Well, my FFL here is very reasonable and is veteran-owned. If I decide to sell anything I guess the fee will bother me less for those reasons.

 

[CapnMac]

I also have to pay a fee to sell to out of state.

Shipping for sure, perhaps a fee for the FFL's time involved. Presumably, you will have worked out shipping charges with the buyer in advance.
If the FFL only charges me his shipping cost, I make sure to buy some ammo or the like, so he makes some money out of the deal.