Project355
Member
- Joined
- Aug 2, 2020
- Messages
- 672
A few weeks back, I mentioned in another section here that I got a "Cimarron" Bird's Head 1873, which was advertised as being "Old model, no safety". From the picture, it was clearly visible that the firing pin was "forward" and the trigger not pulled. I purchased the item from a large online arms retailer. The item was not "Cimarron" but "Stoeger", but that matters little to me, as the quality overall is first rate on the revolver.
I shot it, and mostly it was good, but I did have one light hit, and noticed a little weirdness, odd feel, with the trigger that I didn't quite know what to make of. Getting home after transfer and shooting, I saw the firing pin was "out". I actually disassembled the gun partly - trigger guard and grip came off, and hammer came out. It has a leaf spring for the bolt and trigger, which I didn't mess with. Cleaned up everything, and put it all back together.
But something wasn't quite right with the trigger. And here's where experience got the better of me until I figured out what was going on. I saw the hammer had a plunger in it, but didn't think much of it. Its been since the 1990's that I've had a real Colt apart, but have had dozens of Rugers apart, and Rugers have a plunger in the hammer that operates the bolt. But after a bit of reading, watching video, and some experimentation, I got things figured out, and here is my explanation and warning.
The gun does indeed have a safety, which is the oft maligned "Uberti sliding firing pin", which is also sometimes mis-labeled as a "floating firing pin". I didn't realize at the time - hammer was out, expected to see a plunger in the hammer, just didn't put 2 and 2 together. Its been said before, but the way the safety is supposed to work is that the sliding, firing pin, which is _not_ spring loaded, is retained in the hammer by a cross pin. It can travel maybe... 3/32's of an inch or so. At the rear suface of the firing pin is a bevel. That bevel allows a corresponding bevel on the hammer's spring loaded plunger to force the firing pin forward when the trigger is pulled, as when firing.
There is nothing to manually "retract" the firing pin. Let me repeat that, as its important: There is nothing to manually retract the firing pin. That is not good, and here's why and I have first hand experience to account for it. Simply stated, the firing pin can be locked forward if things aren't right. A burr. Crud gets into the firing pin's channel in the hammer. Plunger issues. You get the idea. The firing pin can be stuck forward. Mine was stuck forward for a while, but I was used to loading 5 not 6, and I didn't have an issue. But somebody else might.
In my particular gun, manipulation of the firing pin got it to slide again, but not too well. On further disassembly, I found out that the plunger wouldn't push the hammer forward, unless I gave the hammer a little head start. Then it worked fine. I couldn't get the retaining pin out of the hammer at that time, but I did work the pin a lot while it was out of the frame. It was sliding ok now, but still needed that "head start" forward before the plunger would actually push it. The plunger was moving a bit, then smacking the underside, unbeveled portion of the firing pin. I bought a set of Grace starter punches, got the cross pins out and had a look at the parts. The plunger seemed ok, but the firing pin was a little chewed up from the plunger hitting it in the wrong spot. There was barely any "bevel" on its rear surface. Judging from the alignment of the hammer's retaiing pin hole and the firing pins recess for the retaining pin, the firing pin was not overshooting its rearward travel. It was the bevel at issue. The bevel got modified with a diamond stone and it tood a little trial and retrial to get it to have just enough bevel for the plunger to manipulate it, if the pin was at its full rearward travel. The hammer wasn't burred internally, and the burr on the firing pin got smoothed out. Plunger was fine. That situation alone explains the light hits and people complaining of their guns being "feet" off the target at relatively short distances. When the plunger can't move fully, it "kicks" the trigger forward, because its then captive in the "out" position and the weight of the hammer's mainspring sends the trigger forward when the plunger hits the arm on the trigger. I'm sure having the trigger finger jostle violently is enough to disturb aim. Naturally, light hits would also be an issue.
But the BIG issue is that the firing pin can get stuck forward. Happened to me! If JoeShooter had loaded six, gently, or not so gently lowered the hammer on a live round - with the firing pin stuck forward - he might not have the experience to know there was an issue. There is no failsafe, as there is in Ruger. Not comparing brands here, just saying the design for the "safety" is intrinsically unsafe, and in my estimation, an unacceptable design. I cannot believe that Uberti doesn't realize this.
There's today's little warning. Seems I'm two warnings for two days on THR, but, I hope worth it. I don't go looking for trouble, but when I notice it, and its one of those "what were they thinking?" items that hinders safety, then I feel compelled to share.
And finally, I've sourced a 4 click hammer and trigger which should be in tomorrow, maybe Monday. When that arrives, I'll take some pictures of the parts I've mentioned, so there's some greater level of understanding.
I shot it, and mostly it was good, but I did have one light hit, and noticed a little weirdness, odd feel, with the trigger that I didn't quite know what to make of. Getting home after transfer and shooting, I saw the firing pin was "out". I actually disassembled the gun partly - trigger guard and grip came off, and hammer came out. It has a leaf spring for the bolt and trigger, which I didn't mess with. Cleaned up everything, and put it all back together.
But something wasn't quite right with the trigger. And here's where experience got the better of me until I figured out what was going on. I saw the hammer had a plunger in it, but didn't think much of it. Its been since the 1990's that I've had a real Colt apart, but have had dozens of Rugers apart, and Rugers have a plunger in the hammer that operates the bolt. But after a bit of reading, watching video, and some experimentation, I got things figured out, and here is my explanation and warning.
The gun does indeed have a safety, which is the oft maligned "Uberti sliding firing pin", which is also sometimes mis-labeled as a "floating firing pin". I didn't realize at the time - hammer was out, expected to see a plunger in the hammer, just didn't put 2 and 2 together. Its been said before, but the way the safety is supposed to work is that the sliding, firing pin, which is _not_ spring loaded, is retained in the hammer by a cross pin. It can travel maybe... 3/32's of an inch or so. At the rear suface of the firing pin is a bevel. That bevel allows a corresponding bevel on the hammer's spring loaded plunger to force the firing pin forward when the trigger is pulled, as when firing.
There is nothing to manually "retract" the firing pin. Let me repeat that, as its important: There is nothing to manually retract the firing pin. That is not good, and here's why and I have first hand experience to account for it. Simply stated, the firing pin can be locked forward if things aren't right. A burr. Crud gets into the firing pin's channel in the hammer. Plunger issues. You get the idea. The firing pin can be stuck forward. Mine was stuck forward for a while, but I was used to loading 5 not 6, and I didn't have an issue. But somebody else might.
In my particular gun, manipulation of the firing pin got it to slide again, but not too well. On further disassembly, I found out that the plunger wouldn't push the hammer forward, unless I gave the hammer a little head start. Then it worked fine. I couldn't get the retaining pin out of the hammer at that time, but I did work the pin a lot while it was out of the frame. It was sliding ok now, but still needed that "head start" forward before the plunger would actually push it. The plunger was moving a bit, then smacking the underside, unbeveled portion of the firing pin. I bought a set of Grace starter punches, got the cross pins out and had a look at the parts. The plunger seemed ok, but the firing pin was a little chewed up from the plunger hitting it in the wrong spot. There was barely any "bevel" on its rear surface. Judging from the alignment of the hammer's retaiing pin hole and the firing pins recess for the retaining pin, the firing pin was not overshooting its rearward travel. It was the bevel at issue. The bevel got modified with a diamond stone and it tood a little trial and retrial to get it to have just enough bevel for the plunger to manipulate it, if the pin was at its full rearward travel. The hammer wasn't burred internally, and the burr on the firing pin got smoothed out. Plunger was fine. That situation alone explains the light hits and people complaining of their guns being "feet" off the target at relatively short distances. When the plunger can't move fully, it "kicks" the trigger forward, because its then captive in the "out" position and the weight of the hammer's mainspring sends the trigger forward when the plunger hits the arm on the trigger. I'm sure having the trigger finger jostle violently is enough to disturb aim. Naturally, light hits would also be an issue.
But the BIG issue is that the firing pin can get stuck forward. Happened to me! If JoeShooter had loaded six, gently, or not so gently lowered the hammer on a live round - with the firing pin stuck forward - he might not have the experience to know there was an issue. There is no failsafe, as there is in Ruger. Not comparing brands here, just saying the design for the "safety" is intrinsically unsafe, and in my estimation, an unacceptable design. I cannot believe that Uberti doesn't realize this.
There's today's little warning. Seems I'm two warnings for two days on THR, but, I hope worth it. I don't go looking for trouble, but when I notice it, and its one of those "what were they thinking?" items that hinders safety, then I feel compelled to share.
And finally, I've sourced a 4 click hammer and trigger which should be in tomorrow, maybe Monday. When that arrives, I'll take some pictures of the parts I've mentioned, so there's some greater level of understanding.
