Fox model B SxS firing pin problem

[CJMiller]

Yesterday I finally got around to repairing my 50s model B 20g. My original problem was a broken firing pin spring, and the hole had mushroomed slightly,I replaced the spring and tapped the steel back in place, the gun shoots. But I still have an issue, the action is difficult to open at first and there are vertical drag marks on the primers from the pins. Which of these statements is correct:

1. The gun fires, and the firing pins retract back into the holes before opening the action.

2. The gun fires, and as I crack the action, the hammers begin to cock which allows the pins to retract.

If number one is correct then it seems I have a problem with too much forward travel of the hammers. They use the pin retaining screws as a "stop", so my idea is to add thin washers under the screws to limit hammer travel. The hammer will still hit the pin, and the kinetic energy will allow the pin to hit the primer, but the hammer will not be forward enough in the resting position to let the pin hang out of the hole.

If number 2 is correct, then it seems I have more of a timing issue, which seems more complicated to me. I can see that in the fired resting position the "cocking bar" has some slop before contacting the hammers. I dont think this is the issue, let me know what you think.

 

[Kp321]

Your scenario #2 is correct. The pins are not heavy enough to have enough inertia to ignite a shotgun primer, the hammer holds the pin forward until it moves via the cocking bar. All of the Savage, Steven, Fox shotguns I have worked on exhibit a certain amount of firing pin drag on the primers.

 

[CJMiller]

Ok, where do I start with fixing this problem or at least making it better. Seems to me if I filed down the end of the rod that pushes the extractor up, the extractor would push the shells forward a moment later, when the action is further open and the shells have cleared the pins. Maybe that can solve the issue?

 

[CJMiller]

Also, I can see the gap between the cocking bar and the hammers, so when the action is opened theres a moment of slop before the hammers begin to move, in fact the bar touches one hammer before the other.

 

[entropy]

Might be best to have a gunsmith tackle that for you. It'd be a shame to ruin such a nice vintage SxS being a shade tree gunsmith.

 

[BBBBill]

...Seems to me if I filed down the end of the rod that pushes the extractor up, the extractor would push the shells forward a moment later, when the action is further open and the shells have cleared the pins. Maybe that can solve the issue?

Stop and think about that. The rod certainly has not grown in length over time, thereby creating this problem. If anything it has worn shorter than it was originally. So shortening it more would worsen the problem. That is if that is even the source of the problem.

As entropy noted it would be far better to hire a well qualified pro to repair it. Your gun will than you and your wallet will thank you since you haven't created more work for the pro to do. There are still a few shops around that know how to do the work. A little research will turn them up. If you want the closest shop to you, post your general location. If you don't mind shipping, someone here can probably recommend a known qualified Fox/double gun specialist.

 

[entropy]

Depending on where you are in the country, Phillip Crenwelge is in Tx, and Pat Laib is in Minnesota, both specialize in doubles, Trap and Skeet guns mostly.

• Phillips Gunsmithing
• 314-A West Lennon Dr. #223
• Emory, TX 75440
• (210) 313-5988

Laib's Gunsmithing & Custom Guns, Inc.
201 MN-23 NE, Spicer, MN 56288
(320) 796-2686

I would trust either of these guys to work on my shotguns. I'm a gunsmith myself, and have sent shotguns to Pat for work before. I also watched him work from his truck at the MN State Trap shoot a couple times, many years ago.

 

[CJMiller]

Of course the length of the extractor rod is not the cause of the issue... unless it did grow? We'll never know... haaa. Anyway, I'm aware it wouldn't be addressing the cause of an issue but just a possible way around. not the right way to do it, I know. As I open the action, the extractor is right there, looks like it almost rubs the receiver, it's a hair away, which is good! But it wouldn't hurt to give things a little more room, the extractor would be shorter, but as long as I can get my slippery grubbers in there and pull the shell out it works. I understand your concern, I will keep my file in the tool box for now. I will take it to a smith if I need. I talked to a gunsmith after I repaired the spring, and mushroomed metal, told him what I did and he said he woulda done it exactly the same.

I'm going to start by replacing the FP retaining screws... the hammers have slammed into them so many times they have deformed the face of the screws, allowing the hammer to rest further forward. Thatmost likely will solve it. If not, if I can find the right rubber type material, a hard silicone maybe, and cut a circle the size of the screw head, and the thickness equal to the distance the pin rests out of the hole, 1/16 ish, the pins may not need to be all the way in, maybe just a 32nd or less of silicone and stick it to the screw. As the hammer hits it will smash the rubber and hit the pin enough to fire, but as it rests the rubber will hold the hammer back enough to let the pin hide inside. May have to replace the rubber periodically, but I think it'll work. Do you see any issues with this? Maybe the hammers bouncing? more than they probably already do?

Also would it hurt any to lighten up these main springs?

Back in the day when these were made were they quickly produced in large numbers? Just about every part and the cast body is covered in sharp burrs. did this gun ever work absolutely perfect, or maybe was this way out of the box. It works good enough... my gun is deffinetly not a precision made machine, im aware, i dont expect it to be but I would assume that all model Bs are not all exatly the same... and all need a little fine tuning. This is what a gunsmithing forum is for right, not just locating gunsmiths...

But if you have any good suggestions for Smiths, I am in willamette valley oregon.