UGHH!! The Ignorance!!

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So an SKS with FMJ can penetrate body amour?

I had no idea.


Glad my first purchase in years was an SKS recently.
It was my son's suggestion to get one
and he did a lot of research on the weapon before
we purchased one.

I'm NOT interested in shooting someone with
a bullet proof vest on, but it's good to know it can be done
in the hopefully unlikely event I may have to do just that.
 
If I am guessing about the make and model of a car I am unable to positively identify, I make sure people know I am guessing and cars aren't my strong point. I certainly don't parade around in front of a camera trying to convince people that a Civic is a Corvette.

Bam! End of discussion.
If you're in the Drug Enforcement Agency (DEA - a high ranking National Police Force) you should atleast have some knowledge of what you're talking about..
Unless the show is just 100% antigun/left wing and is trying to convince all the ignorant folk watching, that all guns can penetrate class III body armor and take down planes.


Also, I'm beginning to wonder if the show is scripted.. As others mention: the "agents" contaminate crime scenes - but I've started noticing they just walk up, nonchalantly, to these, supposedly, super bad, high ranking drug dealers (that always carry "Mac 10's" w/armor piercing bullets) and stick their heads in the car windows. If you talk to any police officer (or just watch Cops) they will tell you how cautious they have to be..that if they aren't careful with everyone, they could get killed.
 
what would be even funnier is he had 20lbs of oragino and a bag of cherry flavoured tums. if you noticed in that episode that they were stopping people without cause.(yes i understand some laws should be broken to keep us safe, it should not be aired because it can be used to prove that the leo has lied in the past)
 
Watching programs that irritate me.

I hate reality shows.I think they are stupid and moronic so I don't watch them.Why do folks watch shows about Leos when they have a dislike of all Leos?Are you trying to stress yourselves out or do you watch them to make yourselves feel superior and smarter?Inquiring minds want to know.
 
one shot of Cameron squatted down with her back to the camera wearing skin tight pants and (there's just no other way to say this) a full size Glock sticking straight up from her crack I watched that episode and I remember that seen. Don't remember seeing a gun sticking out of her pants. I 'm sure it was there. It just wasn't what i was looking at:). Of course I have been a fan of summer since Firefly.
 
As mentioned before, it's just a TV show. There's a lot of effort to get hyperbolic statements to make them interesting so don't be surprised when they say stupid things.
 
Now that it's been suggested this was seen on some sort of a reality show I'll have to look it up on the interent and see for myself. My kid watches Reno 911 and thinks it's funny. I wonder how many anti-law enforcement types watch Reno 911 and think it's true? That would be one explanation for some of the whacked out things I've heard on other threads. :rolleyes:
 
I hate to come burst any bubbles but they are the DEA not the ATF. While the ATF has people who are also far from experts on firearms that is thier primary task and critique of thier inexperience on the topic would be valid. The DEA's business is drugs. They use guns in both offensive and defensive roles, but they are simply tools used. They know something about the tools they are issued and attempt to know how to clear and render those they are not familiar with safe.
They do not need to know everything about guns that are found or even guns that may be shot at them.

A major mistake civilians make regarding both police and the military is that they are experts on firearms including firearms they never use. They ususaly are not even experts on thier own firearms. Even some of the best soldiers know only basic knowledge about the tools they use. Some are very knowledgeable about some small arms, but that is at an individual level. They know what works what is reliable and have some input on what they prefer, but they are not the experts on the tool.
They are supposed to be experts on the tactics used, not excessively educated on the tools used in those tactics.
They may even give interviews and press releases on weapons, but there is many civilians far more knowledeable.

Thier job is not to know everything about the tools in thier job, and especialy tools not used by them (like the guns of others they are not issued.)
How many people here are experts on every single tool or piece of machinery they use in thier profession?
Since we are using a computer, how many people who know little about computers work with them everyday? Does a surgeon need to know exactly how thier scalpel was made, the specific alloy, and the process to make it?
Should they devote more time to that or to actualy learning more about subjects useful to them?


Even the tactical paramilitary teams are not firearm experts. They use the tools they have and should learn to use them well. They are still not the experts on those tools. The people who make them and design them are.
Thier job is being a paramilitary tactical team that performs successful raids.

If they need a new weapon to accomplish a task they will ask some guy that is an expert on firearms and they will recommend a caliber and platform.


Even the military is not the experts on weapons, most weapons are made by private contractors. Most research and development is done by civilian contractors.
The military's role is to use those tools to accomplish objectives. There is still civilians out there that know far more about the tools they are using (though they may have security clearances that don't allow them to discuss thier work or give press releases which demonstrate that.)

LEO and soldiers are not experts on weapons. Most do not claim to be.
Many individual LEO do appear to have a sense of arrogance around them that can be misinterpreted, but it is part of demanding obedience. They are trying to take control of situations, thier jurisdictions, press releases etc So they act like they are the authority and in control even when they are not. Part of being in control of situations is both taking control and others believing you are in control. People resist less and obey more when they believe the people they are giving control to are actualy better suited to being in control. So a lot of the attitude is simply part of the LEO role.
For example they cannot tell the public in a press release they are powerless to stop the rampaging psyco on the loose even if they are. They soothe, comfort, and try to use the appearant position of being the expert to thier political advantage in the passage of laws or restrictions.
You see that in "cracking down on guns" in some cities. Or needing a larger budget. etc etc


Additional reality TV shows are awful. For every episode many hours of footage are filmed. They then condense entire days into a short episode. It becomes the editors who choose how foolish someone looks or what type of personality they appear to have. The nicest friendliest person can have every time they did something less than polite highlighted, exaggerated with lighting and camera effects and appear to be a total jerk in a reality show.
If I filmed everything you did for several weeks or months, every comment or look you made, I could edit all that footage into a few hours that made you out to be whatever type of person I wanted. Good, bad, ignorant, etc A patient person could be made to appear impatient.
Conflict or controversy, fear, or other strong emotion creating scenes interest people and create ratings.
So conflict and controversy tend to be what is highlighted out of days of footage in reality TV shows.
You could have a group of great people together and make them appear to be horrible rude and stupid. You could have a group of morons and make them appear to be dedicated and intelligent.
It is all in the hands of the editor. It is kinda like history. More of the story is left out than is told, so the editor of the story can determine the overall appearance.
You could have 500 Xs and 10 Ys, but if every Y is mentioned in detail and only 2 Xs are covered then it appears there was more Ys to everyone.
 
Even Cliff Claven could discern a Kel-Tec Sub 2000 from a Mac 10. At least he didn't say it was named after a local Mac-daddy.

Geno
 
It must have been a re run becuase we just talked about this very same mistake on the same show 2 weeks ago.
 
But Geno...thats not fair...Cliff Clavin knew everything...if you don't believe me just ask him! I'm sure he's on this forum somewhere. :D

By the way...didn't Cliff Clavin work for the feds?
 
A doctor shouldn't mistake a scalpel for forceps. If he does, that is cause for concern. A mechanic should not mistake a socket wrench for a pair of pliers. If he does, that is cause for concern. A police officer does not need to be an expert on firearms. But a mistake such as this should be cause for concern, esp among a supposedly top tier professional parading as someone knowledgeable on the topic on national television. I am sorry, but it doesn't matter to me if you are a brain surgeon misdiagnosing a heart disease. Claiming it isn't your exact specialty or field of study after the fact is no excuse. It is your duty to make such information known beforehand.
 
High Capacity Silenced 50 cal must be illegal!

Used to have a souped up wrist rocket slingshot that I used 40 or 50 cal lead musket balls with. Set up a cardboard target with a piece of plywood in my apartment first day to try it out. Didn't get the deposit back on that apartment.
Must be an illegal weapon! Can shoot through doors! And has a silencer! And the Crown Royal bag that hold the balls is a high capacity magazine!

Really miss that setup, couple hundred feet, dead on target. Sank a ball 1/4" into a tree once at almost 100 yards.

Oh, wait. Those are illegal in California! (In any park, wildlife refuge, state run campground, open space... man California sucks...)
 
kanook said:
(yes i understand some laws should be broken to keep us safe, it should not be aired because it can be used to prove that the leo has lied in the past)
Speaking of people who need to lay off the pipe....
 
Okay...now It's all coming together. The DEA Agents are posing as postal carriers. And the postal carriers are switching places with DEA Agents. It is a vast conspiracy to confuse MTMilitiaman into thinking the United States Government cannot tell the difference between a kel-tec and a mac. Our country is doomed...dogs having sex with cats because they cannot tell the difference between pliers and a socket wrench...damn Cliff Clavin, damn him, our country is ruined.

Seems to be about as logical as some of the other stuff I have read. :)
 
Please don't think that all law enforcement types know, well, really much of anything about firearms. The majority have now experience outside of their job, and their job provides no training on firearm identification.

In Arizona officers need to know four things about guns.

1. Is it a fiream?
2. If it is a shotgun, is the barrel less than 18 inches?
3. If it is a rifle, is the barrel less than 16 inches?
4. What is the overall length?

Beyond that, there is no training. If an officer is not familiar with that gun based on their personal experience then they simply will have no clue what it is.

I can promise that 110 of our 120 officers would have no clue how to tell a MAC-10 from a Kel-tec.

If you think law enforcement know a lot about guns... you watch way too much tv. Ask any officer you know how much firearm identification training they have received. Ask any veteran how much they have received.

Okay, just so I'm not leading anyone down the wrong path... I spoke with our department training coordinator. AZPost (which handles all police training for Arizona) does not offer any type of firearms identification course or training. We have never seen, heard of, or had advertisements for a private (civilian run) LE class on firearm identification. We receive thousands of advertisements every year wanting us to send officers to every type of training imaginable. The closest our coordinator had heard of was a firearm interdiction class.

Just so you understand, even if I want to take a firearm identification class, I can't. They don't exist here. It might in other states, but not in AZ.
 
Boob tube

Of course these are scripted shows. For example, one show they're going to take down a major coke operation with international connections and they do it with 6 officers and a team of camera -men......no way. I hope for everyone’s sake this is not real but reality tv with a hitch....I know officers that did take down a coke ring and it was a combined effort of locals, feds and a couple years of intense surveillance….with NO camera-men. I think this is 'all hype tv' because those in Hollywood can’t put decent shows on the boob tube anymore…this is the crap those liberals throw to the wall hoping it will stick….turn it off and go for a walk, ride a bike, or shoot a gun…anything but the tube!!
 
I can promise that 110 of our 120 officers would have no clue how to tell a MAC-10 from a Kel-tec.
Maybe not while a gunfight is in progress, for sure, but afterwards, all you have to do is pick it up and read the make, model, and caliber stamped into the side of it. How hard is that?
 
Well heron...it is not hard at all. And thats exactly what real law enforcement officers do when they confiscate firearms from criminals. And as real law enforcement officers know the firearm has to correctly identified before it can be stored as evidence and entered into the National Crime Information Center's computer database.

I think the point of this thread is some members expect law enforcement officers to be able to identify a weapon on sight. Some law enforcement officers can and some can't. Sort of a "gun trivia" contest which lacks merit to the trained professional law enforcement officers who work the streets.
 
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