What the heck is the agents deal on Spike's "DEA"

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FFMedic

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First off let me say it's a SLOW night at work and I just watched 4 hours of DEA on Spike. It's a docu-drama of the Detroit area DEA for those who haven't seen it. It's pretty fun to watch, some actual crime fighting results happen often.

But... why are the agents SO dang ignorent about firearms? Some things that jumped out:

-"We are out-gunned" HOW!?! There is always a dozen or more of the agents with M-4s, shotguns, MP5s and .40 cal Glocks up against what is normally 1-3people with shotguns, AKs and handguns, if anything at all. Sounds like a "fair fight" at best.

-One agent was very anti AK-47 calling it "America's new pistol" HUH??? He specificly said they can be loaded with teflon-tip ammo to defeat an agent's vest. Please! Who sells these rounds and how does the viscosity of a projectile make it an AP round?

-The called a Tec-9 as "high powered" a few times. How is a pistol round from a short BBL high powered, at all?

-They called a Mac-10 a "machine gun" and maybe it was, but the show in no way offered up anything to proove this. I know they are easy(er) to convert but do they just assume all Macs are "machine guns".

-This made me laugh out loud, one agent while explaining how they save the world by taking the weapons off the streets specificly said "some even have surface to air missiles" WHAT?!? What drug dealer in Detroit has SAMs!?! Maybe one had a replica RPG but a SAM? I'm sure PD helicopters need chaff and flares when buzzing around 8 Mile hahahaha.

I just wanted to share, and ask if anybody can explain how seemingly "expert" LEOs with extensive weapons training can be sooooo off base about firearms.

FFMedic
 
Sounds like they

were just flapping their gums to make it sound like they were in real danger...

"ya know, me an Mikey back there came upon a perp last week who had a flame thrower, along with a guy in a business suit and a ski mask with a butterfly knife, a REALLY bug guy with a rotary cannon and 1 guy who had these robots protecting him, kind of an engineer....

"Well, we puffed out our chests, and went at it! We killed those guys....No wait, that was the Team Fortress 2 game we wuz playing.

These cops are just trying to play to the camera. Im sure the next batch of bad guys will have had a tactical nuke in their suitcase.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=i68cEsALWt0
 
It should be noted that this DEA show is run on "Spike" not Discovery or the History Channel. That right there is a big clue about how many "facts" are going to be present. Not that Discovery or the History channel get all the facts right either, but anyway...

I think it's funny how, in what I've seen of the show, they never actually arrest anybody, they cut them loose if they flip on the next higher dealer. I guess that's a great way of ensuring job security...
 
Sigh. Look, those DEA agents obviously were either trained by Lee Paige himself or attended the same kinds of training. Partly through the Paige's exploits and efforts, the DEA has become well known for training its agents to be professionals. Look and be awed: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pj4yUpR1PB0

The television series you've described must be one of the DEA's vigorous attempts to keep that image alive and in the forefront of the nation's consciousness.

Always remember this: DEA agents risk their lives on the streets and everywhere else there is a gun. What that television series seems to demonstrate that there is danger from the very moment a DEA agent reaches for his weapon in the morning until the moment it is out of his hands at night.

They are indeed "out gunned." Instead of picking on them we need to show them compassion, give them support, and run like hell whenever an armed DEA agent appears.

Lee Paige and his colleagues at the DEA demonstrate for us all why it is essential to learn the difference between cover and concealment. What greater achievement can there be for any law enforcement agency, and the DEA deserves recognition for keeping that achievement foremost in the nation's consciousness.
 
In over ten years with that outfit, I never met the serious street agent that would let his or her face be shown on TV.

That "show" is to the real DEA what Tommy Lee Jones and his POS movie was to the U.S. Marshals Service.

Jeff
 
They are professional enough, that I know of.
Those shows thrive on drama and exaggerations. A Tec-9 becomes a deadly assault machine pistol that can take out 30 agents just by looking at it wrong (very different than my experience, where 10 rounds without a FTF was amazing, and accuracy was nonexistant).
Thank goodness we have these guys taking drug dealers and buyers off the streets. I am tired of not being able to fly over a city without a surface to air missle hitting my plane.
 
-This made me laugh out loud, one agent while explaining how they save the world by taking the weapons off the streets specificly said "some even have surface to air missiles" WHAT?!? What drug dealer in Detroit has SAMs!?! Maybe one had a replica RPG but a SAM? I'm sure PD helicopters need chaff and flares when buzzing around 8 Mile hahahaha.



lol, i saw this as well. I didn't laugh, but I rolled my eyes, I highly doubt they have friggan SAM's in the evidence locker.

I did notice however that they all practice good firearm safety, well at least fingers off the trigger.
 
That's ridiculous. You should look up the production company and write them a letter telling them that they should know better.
 
m10 in the hands of a bad guy is probably a machine gun they are very easy to convert:(
a tec-9 probably means your facing an unsuccessful drug dealer and there bound to be desperate:D
 
No matter how you convert a mac 10, it will never ever be by any rational and clear definition, a machine gun.

It could be a machine pistol, or an automatic weapon, or a sub-machine gun, just not a machine gun.

Also, for being a professional crew, they sure do seem to wing it a majority of the time.
 
I bet "gecko45" had a hand in the DEA's training. Afterall, shooting 400 rounds a night and experimenting with duct taping body armor to himself, he probably has a ton of tactiful advice for those willing to listen.

On a serious note: Sadly many people will see the shows and believe that what the agents are saying is true and, therefore, we need tougher gun control. What we really need is self control.
 
I have absolutely no doubt whatsoever that what they say is mostly scripted by their bosses. Whatever they say is designed to put across whatever message their bosses want. Whether it gets that message across or not is something else.

I am also suspicious of any group of secret agent types that allow themselves to be on TV.
 
Ok, a couple of you call them idiots for not getting weapon relatd facts straight and then make mistakes yourselves.

I am talking about the two people that are implying that a mac 10 is not a machine gun when it is semi auto only but *is* a machine gun when converted to full auto.

A mac 10 is *never* a machine gun. A fully automatic mac 10 is a sub-machine gun. It fires pistol calibre rounds.

A machiine gun is a crew served weapon which is capable of fully automatic fire and is chambered for rifle calbre rounds (or heavier). They are typically belt fed (some older machine guns were magazine fed).

The fact that some light/gp machine guns like the m60 were made famous by a single man firing them from the hip (hi rambo) does not change the fact that they are intended to be (and designed to be) crew-served.

For what its worth I agree with you about the show. The same type of mistakes also take place on *future weeapons*. I think part of it may be that they want to use terms that makes sense to the average lay-person watching the show.
 
I didnt think this show was for real. I thought it was just a well put together re-enactment show. after all I saw an episode where a dea guy said
I really dont know how to shoot guns, they are here to make the bad guys feel insecure
Click to expand...
:what:
 
The biggest thing to remember is that this is TV....
News cast and all always make things seem worse than they are... Same here.. They have to hype up the drama...

I also wouldnt be surprised if a backer of the show was a anti-gun org... Thats why they make firearms seem sooo dangerous and much more so than they actually are..
 
Hank,

I just saw your sig line. I think it says: Radical Islamic terrorists: the other other white meat. Serve with the pork pieces

Hope that helps. :what:
 
Its a good show, it just makes Detroit look totally overrun with drug dealers. Half the time, they are not even in the city limits of Detroit, but thats besides the point.

A good part of the time, they might be outgunned because the agents might only have a handgun on their person except when they go on raids. Do you think they all have assault rifles in all of the vehicles?
 
It's all hollywood BS, it's on TV right, so they play things up for the ignorant. If you are looking for truth you sure won't find it on the TV.

jj
 
It is entertainment, staffed with agents who for whatever reason don't mind being on TV, saying things they or the producers believe will entice the audience, and presenting their footage in as interesting a manner as they can.

To which I say, it is unusual to have several let a lone a room full of agents willing to be on TV, it is TV, it is TV.

The DEA folks I've encountered have always been professional, not nearly the cowboys they are painted to be, and worth working with.
 
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Ok, a couple of you call them idiots for not getting weapon relatd facts straight and then make mistakes yourselves.

I am talking about the two people that are implying that a mac 10 is not a machine gun when it is semi auto only but *is* a machine gun when converted to full auto.

A mac 10 is *never* a machine gun. A fully automatic mac 10 is a sub-machine gun. It fires pistol calibre rounds.

A machiine gun is a crew served weapon which is capable of fully automatic fire and is chambered for rifle calbre rounds (or heavier). They are typically belt fed (some older machine guns were magazine fed).

The fact that some light/gp machine guns like the m60 were made famous by a single man firing them from the hip (hi rambo) does not change the fact that they are intended to be (and designed to be) crew-served.

For what its worth I agree with you about the show. The same type of mistakes also take place on *future weeapons*. I think part of it may be that they want to use terms that makes sense to the average lay-person watching the show.
Click to expand...

While I know where you are coming from being in the military myself, I wouldn't get so caught up on the "military" definition of things so much. The military has a way like no other of making things extremely overly complicated. Case in point you get a cookie with "pan coated chocolate covered discs" in your MRE's instead of a Cookie with M&M's.

To the general populace and according to federal law actually a "machine gun" is any gun that fires more than one round with a single pull of the trigger. So while yes, going by military definitions, a MAC-10 is not a "machine gun" to pretty much everyone else a fully auto MAC-10 IS a machine gun.

There were FAR too many worse mistakes in that show to worry about to get hung up on this one. ;)
 
Those guys are doing a difficult job. I like seeing them fail on numerous occasions, it sets in the reality of the job.

They are federal officers, trained to be such. They probably aren't "into" guns. If they had a different career they would probably watch football or Nascar on the weekends, not go to the range. If a BG shoots a lot of bullets at you (or has that ability) and you know NOTHING about how a firearm functions, you would call it a machinegun. Sure you would;

When I was 8 years old every red car was a Ferrari. It didn't matter if it was a beat up Camaro or a Ford station wagon if it was red - it was Ferrari. Now 20 something years later I know the difference between a 456GT 2+2 and a 166MM and only race cars are red (real Ferraris are not Red) but only because I have developed a passion for it.

They're passions are someplace else. That won't make them good or bad at what they do, just not as knowledgeable as someone who is passionate about the subject.
 
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