UK Legalises "Maximum Force"

[agricola]

Bog,

i) kevlar vests are legal, wherever did you get the idea that they arent;

ii) the change in the law, if there is one, will mean precisely nothing. As it stands, if an allegation of crime is made, the "suspect" (in this case a homeowner alleged to have assaulted a burglar) will either be interviewed under caution, or (more likely) arrested and interviewed under caution, bailed for CPS advice and then either no further action'ed or charged, in which case he or she will have a court determine what force, in the circumstances, was "reasonable", the presumption being that such force is reasonable unless the prosecution can prove beyond all reasonable doubt that it wasnt

The proposed system will mean if an allegation of crime is made, the "suspect" (in this case a homeowner alleged to have assaulted a burglar) will either be interviewed under caution, or (more likely) arrested and interviewed under caution, bailed for CPS advice and then either no further action'ed or charged, in which case he or she will have a court determine what force, in the circumstances, was "reasonable", the presumption being that such force is reasonable unless the prosecution can prove beyond all reasonable doubt that it wasnt.

Viva this dramatic change!

 

[Faithless]

This is politicians talking because an election is coming up.

No-ones got carte-blanche except the elite.

The reasonable force baloney is still in effect.

 

[beerslurpy]

I did wonder why such a significant change in UK law wasnt found in google or bbc.

 

[iapetus]

Bog

Handguns for Civilians are utterly forbidden on pain of six years imprisonment without trial.

Where on earth did you get "without trial" from?

(And it's a five-year sentance for illegal firearm posession, not six).

I've never heard of restrictions on arrow heads.

And (as Agricola has already said), it is a proposed change in the law. And, as far as I can tell, will make almost no difference to anything. (Except possibly let you get away with roughing up a burglar a bit more).

 

[Boats]

How about a deactivated military bolt action rifle with a bayonet?

A good buttstroking to the skull with the steel butt plate is still very debilitating with some solid walnut and gun metal backing it up. The bayonet is, even today, effective and frightening in close quarters and of course the burglar would have to be betting that he wasn't staring at an operative Enfield, and most would likely retreat as were he a Frenchman at the mere sight of it.

 

[agricola]

Iapetus,

That will teach me not to read THR just after I get up - how on earth did I miss that?

 

[mec]

Maybe now the black powder pistol shooters won't have to live in fear that the home office will add their guns to the list if somebody uses one defensively

 

[Mk VII]

how you gonna find time to load your BP pistol?
If you keep it loaded you will be breaching the conditions on your certificate, and can look forward to revocation, confiscation, prosecution and conviction.
If you can get possession of it before said intruder has run off/whacked you on head/stabbed you you almost certainly were breaching the conditions on your certificate by storing it insecurely (see above).
Another cheery quote from last week:-
" Batley and Spen MP Mike Wood has welcomed the Prime Minister's pledge to make sure the law is tough enough deal with the way in which components and machinery for making home made bullet are sold. Mr Wood is supporting the campaign launched by Cindy Eaton, the mother of murdered police constable Ian Broadhurst, to ban the machinery which made the bullets used to kill her son and in the attempted murder of two of his colleagues. Mr Wood raised the matter with Tony Blair in the House of Commons during Prime Minister's Question Time yesterday. Mr Wood said: “The Prime Minister will know that my constituent police constable Ian Broadhurst was shot dead in Leeds on Boxing Day last year. It now transpires that the bullets that were used in that killing and in the attempted murder of two colleagues were home made. “The components and the machine necessary to produce that ammunition were bought over the counter, with no questions, no vetting and apparently no checks whatever. Will the Prime Minister pledge his and his Government’s support to the campaign launched by PC Broadhurst’s mother Cindy Eaton to have this loophole in the law closed and quickly?†Mr Blair, who again extended his sympathies to PC Broadhurst's family, told Mr Wood: "We are studying very carefully not just the facts of this particular case but also the campaign on behalf of the family and we hope to make a response shortly. "I entirely agree with Mr Wood that the particular issue of the way these things are sold over the counter is a very important issue. We need to make sure the law is tough enough to deal with it." "
http://www.mikewood.org.uk/news.asp

He's already got eBay (UK) to ban reloading equipment

 

[trapperjohn]

I am so incredibly glad I do not live in an unreasonable country such as the UK.
now they want to ban equipment that can be used to make bullets? Whats next? outlawing raw steel because it can be made into things that can be made to make bullets?

 

[Ryder]

When did they reinstate freedom of online speech Bog?

 

[Domino]

I am thrilled that you are happy Bog, but I am sad to say that I do not understand why. The kind of restrictions in your country is exactly what I fear most, more than anything. But I agree, if a man has to be arrested and convicted for protecting his home or his property then the law becomes rather meaningless. What's the point of working hard and bieng law-abiding when someone can just come and take it from you, and you can do nothing about it without legal recourse. I have heard before that the English do not have the stomache for dealing with crime and criminals, the more I learn about what the populous really thinks the more I believe that statement. Maybe you should consider coming to the United States sometime. But it is good news and I am happy for you and your countrymen, cheers.

 

[big poppa]

in england CRIME does pay!no worries mate!crooks got it made,and you know their smart enough to know the foolishness of english law.thats why it,s so rampant,and i thought our politicians were stupid.sort of like the old monte python skit of the black knight being hack to pices but refuseing to admit there,s anything wrong! BURGLUR? WHAT BURGLUR? oh thats just a stranger taking a tour of my house! at 4 in the morning?

 

[HEiST]

You have given my my signature. I salute you.

 

[Orthonym]

If it's an aluminum bat

Do you still have to hold it so the label's on top?

 

[Cosmoline]

Alaska legalized Magnum Force some time ago, so the UK has a lot of catching up to do.

 

[Bog]

You'll have to forgive me for any errors in my statements. I have to go by publicly available media - for example, the large posters in the tube station at Chelsea Harbour saying it's *six* years for posession of a pistol.

Also, I have to go with being told by my local army-surplus store that the reason I can't buy Kevlar is because bulletproof vestments are illegal.

I go by the news, and by the press, and by the above. I'm an artist and a teacher, not a legal professional or LEO.

*shrugs*

Regarding the head of the Met and Tozza Blaire saying that Maximum Force is OK by them... well, if they've said it, then presumably when my case comes up, I can get some friends to write to the papers and get them to run a "But you said...!" campaign.

Either way, frankly, I'm stuck here for longwinded and onerous reasons. Anything that helps me sleep better is Good.

*edit* My bad - those posters were actually in Canary Wharf.

 

[Nathaniel Firethorn]

I take it that the police are exempt from all this malarkey?

- pdmoderator

 

[Bog]

Mr. Blue Suit gets his pepper spray and his Class IIa.

Armed cops are more abundant these days. I wouldn't have too much of a problem with that under other circumstances, but I am concerned about the levels of proper training, and the fact that all these armed policemen come from a culture where guns are vilified and demonised. If a man believes that the impliment he's carrying is capable only of evil, then I'm not entirely certain he'll ever know how to use it for good. Nor will he be able to carry the psychological burden of employing that device.

A person ought not hate their tools, but that's a discussion for another thread, most likely.

 

[SMLE]

Basically, combat heads on arrows are illegal.

That rattling sound you hear is all the veterans of Crecy, Poitiers(sp?) and Agincourt spinning in their graves.

 

[LAR-15]

You can own a handgun for self defense in Northern Ireland.

Not sure why you still can but you can.

 

[Andrew Rothman]

We only just got back the right to hit a burglar over the head with a cricket bat!

Cricket bats are still legal?

Is a potato gun out of the question? Oh, wait. Solid projectiles... nevermind.

We must then conclude that French fry guns are perfectly legal?

 

[Travis McGee]

It's progress!

 

[gripper]

Its been how many years since the Dunblaine shootings further removed the RightsOf Man?What are the odds of getting any of th efirearms bans repealed before say;when Hell freezes over?...

 

[P95Carry]

Gripper - IIRC Hamilton/Dunblaine was '95, so close to 10 years now. As for repeals .. IMO hell will not only freeze over but - earth will have gone all glacial!

 

[mr hanky]

I think that we should all curl into balls, have an IV, and a colostomy bag - serviced by the government. That way we will reduce our chances of being victims of crime by having the least amount of social interaction.