Ultimate 357 Magnum hoedown!!!

[Palladan44]

Currently am back with the 38/357 toolhead, dies and shell plate on my Dillon 550B. After nearly a year with 9mm set up, I figured time to change the scenery..... I'll say right off the bat, I don't "need" to load anything in particular at this juncture, but have the components to do so. I don't really "need" anything In between my 850fps target loads, and my 1350fps deer hunting loads, but there is a huge gap in between these 2 classes of ammunition.....one which I'd like to explore for the sake of fun.

Traditionally, I have 2 go-to loads....one target type in the upper 8s or 900fps class using a 158gr. LSWC with 5gr. Of WW-231.
The other is at the top of the Spectrum, using a Jacketed 158 gr bullet (of a couple different types) over a near book limit (16.5gr.) of WW-296. Wow, over 3x the powder used. How remarkable!?! I also have an old favorite load with a hard 158 LSWC or 180 Lead FN using about 80-90% charges of 2400, yielding about 1200fps. give or take with the respective bullet.

I'm looking to explore the possibilities for each fps. "class" of ammo ranging from 800-1400fps. and do with the best possible accuracy and the lowest possible pressures, obviously. (For example I don't want to Max out W-231 at 6.6 gr for just over 1000fps in exchange for pushing the SAAMI pressure limit ...not really the goal for obvious reasons.

My available powders are, from fastest burning to slowest:
WIN-231
BE-86
Power Pistol
CFE Pistol
Blue Dot
Longshot
2400
AA#9
WIN-296
Power Pro 300-MP

My on hand bullets are:
158gr. Lubed 158gr LSWC (Brinell 17)
158gr Xtreme plated SWC
158 Gr Speer JSP
158 Gr Speer 'Deepcurl' JHP
180 Gr. Missouri 'Pugnose'

I have on hand CCI spp, WIN-SPM, Fed-SPM
primers.

I mainly shoot 6" guns, M586-2, M28, M27 however I'm also interested in a good performing Magnum class round for my new 3" Colt King Cobra- my current WIN 296 @ 16.5 load is a bit too much out of the 3" KC, huge fireball, etc....

Thank you much THR members for your thoughtful input with this experiment.

 

[runner3264]

BE-86!!! Very accurate. It's very versatile for other calibers too. I love it in 10MM.

 

[Charlie98]

*sigh* No Unique....

 

[ballman6711]

I like 6.8gr of W231 with a Sierra JSP and Fed SPM in my "classic" 6" King Cobra. Accurate with mild recoil. Sierra gives 6.9gr as max. Don't have a chrono so I can't give fps.

chris

 

[GeoDudeFlorida]

BE-86!!! Very accurate. It's very versatile for other calibers too. I love it in 10MM.

Seconded.

That 158gr. plated bullet and 6.2-6.8gr. of BE-86 in a .357-length case ought to be a fine load for that 3" Colt. A nice fast powder and a heavy bullet - you'll feel it some - "should" put you in the 900-1000fps range, so it's not entirely overlapping your current 800-900fps 158gr. load and is well under the speed limit for such bullets.

For a lark, try Blue Dot at around 9gr. with that 180gr. "Pug Nose" in one of the longer revolvers. Crimp it good so it has time to work and won't just blow chunks down-range.

 

[Palladan44]

*sigh* No Unique....

I'm on the hunt for some.

 

[runner3264]

I load 158gr SWC hi-tek coated with 7.6 gr. BE-86. Accurate, but haven't had the chance to chrono it yet. should be at the 1150+fps range

 

[tightgroup tiger]

7.3 gr of BE-86 with the Xtreme plated SWC. Works very well.
There are 5 .357 mag holes under that quarter. It's a good load. I shot this group at 7 yds off hand, unsupported with it when BE-86 first came out.
Power Pistol from light to heavy with coated lead SWC.
6.7gr, 7.1, 7.6, and 8.3 gr all seem very accurate. The flash will start at the 7.6 gr load and is really bad at 8.3gr but it sure yelps like a magnum!
I always loved the sound of a hot Power Pistol load in a .357 Magnum!

2400 13.7 gr , 14.2 gr with lead coated bullets.
14.5gr, and 15 gr with XTPs, Nozler JHPs, and Everglades JSP.s Love me some 2400!

Bluedot with 158gr plated bullets 8.3gr was a good accurate load for me also and pretty easy to shoot out of my 4" GP100.

AA9:
I'll stay away from in .357 mag. It shoots ok and is fairly accurate but just doesn't seem to burn clean even at loads over the modern max published data in my .357s. Don't know what I'm doing wrong with it.
It burned clean in my 41mag but I never used it for .357 mag again, to many other powders out there that I liked better.

 

[BBarn]

Suggest:
W231
Power Pistol or BE-86
2400, W296, or 300MP (pick any two)
Pick any primer, but use mag primers if loading W296.

 

[westernrover]

Of the powders you have, I've used
WIN-231
BE-86
Power Pistol
Blue Dot
Longshot
2400
WIN-296

I don't think accuracy can be tested fairly without a Ransom Rest or the equivalent, and I don't have that. I have tested accuracy with single action on a bag rest. I wasn't able to compare all the different powders meaningfully, but TiteGroup did produce the best group.

What I can compare is 5-shot velocity standard deviation. TiteGroup and Win-231/HP-38 are the lowest. Win296/H110 is the worst of the listed powders - at least with the primers I have (CCI, Fiocchi, and Remington 5 1/2 -- none of them are really "magnum" primers).

I can also compare cleanliness. Titegroup is definitely the cleanest. Blue Dot and Steel are filthy.

296/110 produces the highest velocities (I don't have 300MP, but I do have Lil'Gun with which I've not been able to go faster than with 110). In a 6" barrel, the additional velocity of 110 is very significant. In the short barrels, it is still quite a bit. With a powder like 2400, it has not been meaningfully faster in a short barrel than Power Pistol or BE86.

The powders I like best:
W231/HP38 is clean, accurate, consistent velocity and inexpensive for low-recoil loads; but TiteGroup is better at everything
BE-86 gives meaningfully higher velocity than 231 or TiteGroup and is clean, accurate, not quite as consistent in fps, meters better than 231 but similar to TG.
Longshot gives a little more velocity than BE-86. It meters well and is a favorite powder for high fps without a magnum primer (better than 2400).

Not mentioned in your list:
Lil'Gun has given me less consistency even than 110 and lower fps; really needs a SPM primer to be fair
IMR4227 - soft shooting but inconsistent fps for me/my primers and lots of powder skeletons - probably needs a SPM to be fair
VV N105 and N110 have given me high fps, similar to 296/110 but almost as high SD. If I was deer hunting, I would get SPM primers and develop one of these.
TiteGroup -- all I shoot now. If it gives enough velocity for the job, it will do everything else better than any other powder I've tried. I get a 125 grain XTP going 1250 fps with it.

I would like to try VV N350

 

[murf]

blue dot with the 180 grain bullet works for me. h110 got wonky with the top loads so i switched.

luck,

murf

 

[P Flados]

I load a lot of mid range rounds in the 357. I use a 120 gr PC coated cast and enough Promo to get around 27,000 psi as estimated by Quickload (QL). This is "fun" load to shoot, is accurate, clean burning and the power is just better than a 9mm. It has enough bang to satisfy without getting in the the full power blast that can be obnoxious.

For a mid range round, your 158 cast and 158 plated bullets are probably "good enough" and much more cost effective than the Speers. Some plated bullets start getting iffy around 1200 fps, so trying for 1100 fps seems about right.

Really low pressures in a 357 are not a good choice in my opinion. Most of your powders listed are intended for higher pressures than needed for a mid range load and use of these powders will just use more powder and burn very dirty. The 357 is rated for for 35000 psi and loads in the 25,000 to 30,000 psi range will give you better burning of your powder while still being plenty easy on the gun.

CAUTION: The following post (or a page linked to) includes or discusses loading data not covered by currently published sources of tested data for this cartridge (QuickLOAD or Gordon's Reloading Tool data is not professionally tested). USE AT YOUR OWN RISK. Neither the writer, The Firing Line, nor the staff of TFL assumes any liability for any damage or injury resulting from the use of this information.

I used 7.7" for length (muzzle to breech) and a 50 fps assumed loss for the cylinder gap. QL does not have BE-86 or CFE pistol. Mid range load pressures would be much lower than desired with anything Blue Dot or slower. QL tells me you can get 1100 fps with:

• Win 231 at 6.0 grs and 27600 psi
• Power Pistol at 6.7 gr and 18800 psi.

The Power Pistol pressure actually looks less than optimal and may or may not be a good choice. To get up to 25,000 psi takes closer to 7.7 grs and should get up to around 1230 fps. I am not sure how well your lower cost bullets will like being pushed this hard.

If looking for a less than full power load with Power Pistol and the Speers, the 7.7 gr Power Pistol is probably a low end choice and around 8.3 gr of Power Pistol for 1310 fps at 29800 psi is close to max I would try.

 

[Blue68f100]

Since I have had surgery on both wrist I can no longer tolerate high recoil any more. So if I were to shoot a full load it would be very minimum, 1 cylinder. I do shoot what I call mouse fart loads in my 6" Python. I use 4.8gr WST behind a 158gr MBC BE #1 or #2 LSWC. I've shot this load for decades, has the recoil of a 22 LR in this heavy gun.

 

[Palladan44]

Loaded up 10 and fired from my Colt KC today....
158gr Xtreme plated SWC w/ 8.0gr Power Pistol.
CCI small pistol primers, seated to cannelure to 1.580" OAL. Light taper crimp. Loaded in a batch of R-P brass Didn't chrono, but will soon.

These were great medium "magnum" loads, and very accurate. They had almost as much noise as full house loads, but with a faster recoil impulse, but less felt overall recoil..... and, a quick muzzle flash that would definitely be blinding in low light conditions. (I definitely see BE-86 performing similar, but with less flash) from my experiences with PP and BE-86 in 9mm. Since these are just strictly "fun" loads, I could care less about the flash. Just the first run, and it's a keeper.

 

[DMW1116]

This is a great thread. I just started loading 357. So far I only have 1 load. 3 grains of W231 with a full wadcutter running about 800 fps. It’s super accurate, by my standards, but it’s so slow I can run down range and move the target so the bullet hits where I want.

 

[RealGun]

Many questions can be answered by owning a few manuals and checking load data on powder company sites. I will say that I have tried BE-86 over a wide range of powder weights, mostly with 158 grain bullets, and think it seems to be a great match for this cartridge. I even have a load for smaller guns that is an average between 38+p and 357 minimum, and it shoots great. Any heavy load should be with a magnum powder, because the rest that burn faster will produce even worse recoil due to pressure spiking. Save those powders, Unique as a prime example, for low to moderate loads, perhaps for your new 3" Cobra.