Ultimate Single-Action for CCW

[SharpsDressedMan]

Regarding the "high" front sight, a sight might look high, but that means nothing. Different weight bullets and cartridges require different heights, and when sighting in, you just hope to have enough to file off, if need be. In my case, I could have used just a little more, as mine hits a little high at 25 yards. Every gun and load is different. As it is, my 246gr .44 bullet @ 860 or so FPS is hitting high. A 200gr bullet @ 950fps might hit low. I once had a 32.20 that really had me lowering the front sight to bring the muzzle up to get the shot on the target. It also depends on what range you sight in for. With fixed sights, you get one shot at this, so decide and do it right. At 5 yards, my Ruger hits a lot closer to home, putting the shot about 3/4" above point of aim.

 

[Red Cent]

The fastest guy on that stage was probably J.M. Brown. Can't remember how many times he has won the National title and the World title. He won't even wear the buckles.

"As you have probably figured by now there are a great many people in the world that hold themselves in such high regard, that they are perfectly willing to tell a complete stranger what his abilities are or aren't based on their own limitations."

Hell, at my age, I tell anyone that I get a chance at. Whadda ya goin' to do, fire me? I mean if I was forty, I would have enough time to let it get around. But at 70, I gotta spread the word. Pay you later Grapevine.

Critical J, any carts in the back yard like this? Holds 21 long guns, a bunch of equipment, and a well stocked ice chest up front on the foot stand.

 

[Critical J]

Well yea, but w/ the roof on them, otherwise pretty much the same!

 

[Red Cent]

Ya mean like this top?

 

[RugerMcMarlin]

Wasn't especialy aimed at you REDCENT. Just sayin, there are guys in the world, that shoot SAs, and don't really have an interest in dressing up cowboy on the weekends. They shoot for themselves, don't have to compete. And thats why the cowboy shooters never heard of em. Seems like if you dont run the circut or have your own TV show you couldnt be fast.
Thats all.

 

[Old Fuff]

Just sayin, there are guys in the world, that shoot SAs, and don't really have an interest in dressing up cowboy on the weekends. They shoot for themselves, don't have to compete. And thats why the cowboy shooters never heard of em. Seems like if you dont run the circut or have your own TV show you couldnt be fast.

Oh we have some folks out here that meet that description, trouble is that to keep going they need to have two hands available...

 

[RugerMcMarlin]

huh? any body? .....

 

[Red Cent]

Awwwww are you going to start the one handed shooting thing!

You never saw The Magnificicent Seven? That was a two handed 200 yard off hand shot.

Dang. Theres a bunch of 'em and I never can remember their names.

I have stated it before. I will carry the 4 3/4" Colt 45 before I carry the Model 60-10 357. Appendix positon with a radical barrel forward. Factory 255 gr LRN.

Hmmmmm. Enough of the Holy Black touching the bottom of the bullet may work. Hell, after two shots they couldn't find me.

 

[Old Fuff]

You never saw The Magnificicent Seven? That was a two handed 200 yard off hand shot.

Now you know that ya' can't hit a bull in the butt at over 10 feet with one of them six-shooters...

Yes, I did see the movie, but I was more impressed when I won a Metallic Silhouette match shooting a 2nd Gen. Colt .45 SAA with a 7 1/2" barrel. Maximum range was 200 meters (which is over 200 yards), and the targets were plate steel cut-outs of a ram, about the size of a medium/large dog.

Sadly I must admit that I used the sights, and a two-handed hold - but I stood upright on my own two legs.

Appendix positon with a radical barrel forward.

Ya' must wear a tent to conceal that...

Enough of the Holy Black touching the bottom of the bullet may work. Hell, after two shots they couldn't find me.

Not only that, but if you're within 6 feet of the target there's a good chance it will catch fire... Don't ask how I know.

 

[David E]

I don't know how fast or accurate the OP is, but I must say, I am shocked to learn that a slightly inebriated brother in law using a stopwatch to time the OP's prowess wasn't exactly an exercise in precision.......

Now, that 2.89, that is useful.

 

[Rexster]

I would feel adequately armed if I had to rely on one of my single-action sixguns, either Colt, USFA, or Ruger. For a while, when I wore a carpal tunnel splint on each wrist whole sleeping, I kept one of my USFA Single Actions on the nightstand, as I could manipulate it eight the splints in place. Of course, I kept a shotgun handy, too, which was also usable with the splints in place.

I was concerned that my double-stack duty auto, or large-gripped GP100, might not be gripped firmly enough for control, if fired, as my fingers are not long.

I work for a PD that considers off-the-clock shooting incidents to be line-of-duty, and therefore expects us to only use weapons with which we have shot the qual course. As I am not allowed to qual with a single-action revolver, it rare for me to actually carry a single-action sixgun in public. (Inside the house, I can assert than a single action was a weapon of opportunity.)

Single-action revolvers are especially good left-hand guns for me, pointing very well, and fitting near-perfectly. My right hand is better attuned to DA weapons and shooting. (I do some things
better lefty, and others righty.) Perhaps, when I retire from the policin' business, I will eventually
gravitate to wearing an SA sixgun on my left side, especially if I have some surgery done on my ailing right wrist or shoulder.

 

[aryfrosty]

Six gunnin'

After shooting cowboy style for a few years I decided to try it out. I live in New Hampshire where you can pretty much wear a coat or jacket most of the year.
My strong-side gun is a stainless Vaquero Bisley with Grasshorm Elk grips and my crossdraw gun is a stainless Vaquero Birdshead with matching grips. Both are .45C
The actions on both are smooth as butter...NOT hair or light actions. I carry a handful of 250gr hardball and understand that re loading is difficult.

 

[David E]

I think it was holstermaker Thad Rybka that came up with the idea of using a charged 1911 magazine as a "speedloader" for a single action chambered in .45 acp

Neat idea and it works!

 

[RugerMcMarlin]

You mean like if your 1911s broke?

 

[Red Cent]

Aryfrosty
Know U B Mountain, Jake Mountain, or Jimmy Spurs?

 

[kayak-man]

I don't know that much about single actions, but I think that anything is going to work pretty well, just so long as you know its limitations and have realistic expectations.

I think that almost any caliber you choose is going to do its job. I believe the progression is Shot Placement > Penetration >Expansion.

If you shoot .38s the best, then a 38 seems like the logical choice. That beign said, if you're going to get a fairly large gun anyways, I'd go with something in a larger calliber. Atleast .357 so you can shoot the 38s for practice, but carry the magnum rounds. Personaly, I'd go with a 45 because I subscribe to the "big and slow is better than small and fast" theory when it comes to handguns.

Really, its upto you. Just make sure that whatever cartridge you choose you do your homework and and load it with something thats going to get the most of that calliber in that platform.

I'd give the Ruger's a good look. I hear they are pretty well made, and the Blackhawks can handle higher pressure's than most other SA wheelguns, or so I've heard.


Oh, and post pictures when you do get one

Chris "the Kayak-Man" Johnson

 

[seeker_two]

I knew a guy who carried SA revolvers for CCW exclusively. As long as you're well-practiced with the SA platform, it's not a bad choice.

One thing I might mention...most SA revolvers are pretty heavy (35oz. or more)....if you're comfortable with that (and have a good belt/holster combo), great....if not...you might want a .38Spl snub with an exposed hammer (can still SA shoot)....

....or, like my friend did, get a Ruger Bearcat and have the cylinder reamed out to take .22Mag....he never had a problem with .22Mag performance....and, with the new SD ammo coming out, it might be as good as a .38Spl non-+P.....

Good luck!!!

 

[Meeteetse]

There is nothing wrong with a SAA except fast reloading. I have often carried my Ruger Vaquero Sheriff's model, not the new Vaquero, and feel just fine. Mine is 45 Colt and I am working on getting a 45acp cylinder fitted, and yes I do have a couple of old 1911 mags with the springs lightened, to use as reloads once I get the acp cylinder. The Mernickle PS6-SA holster fits close to the body and works well.

 

[kayak-man]

I am working on getting a 45acp cylinder fitted, and yes I do have a couple of old 1911 mags with the springs lightened, to use as reloads once I get the acp cylinder.

Correct me if I'm wrong (wouldn't be the first time) but doesn't a revolver firing a rimless cartridge require some form of moon clip? If not, wouldn't it be easier to carry a speed strip instead of a 1911 mag?
I've never really given much thought to carrying a revolver in 45ACP or 9mm, so I'm just curious.

Chris "the Kayak-Man" Johnson

 

[Lawdawg45]

"Correct me if I'm wrong (wouldn't be the first time) but doesn't a revolver firing a rimless cartridge require some form of moon clip?"

The newer model Blackhawks in .38/.357 also come with a 9mm cylinder!

LD45

 

[rio nueces]

I suggest that the OP objectively evaluate his speed skills by using a shot timer. They are more accurate than a slightly inebriated BIL using a wristwatch. Just sayin'.....

DavidE,
The shot timer is not necessarly more accurate than an inebriated BIL.
The BIL could score better depending on his dispersion related to the speed of his oscillation.
The shot timer is more consistent maybe. But accuracy has everything to do with uncertainty.
BIL will be right SOME of the time, and the rate of correctness apparently correlating directly to his speed of wobble (uncertainty).
Before the Budweiser he could be right or wrong, but probably only more consistent than he would be after 6 Buds. But at that point he could just as easily be right as often as wrong, or right more or less than wrong, or do right or wrong more or less.

 

[Rexster]

Correct me if I'm wrong (wouldn't be the first time) but doesn't a revolver firing a rimless cartridge require some form of moon clip? If not, wouldn't it be easier to carry a speed strip instead of a 1911 mag?
I've never really given much thought to carrying a revolver in 45ACP or 9mm, so I'm just curious.

Chris "the Kayak-Man" Johnson

With very few early (Early WWI era) exceptions, the revolvers that chamber auto-pistol cartridges headspace on the case itself, no rim needed. Moon clips are needed for easy extraction with DA revolvers chambered for rimless cases. With SA revolvers, the ejector rod enters the case itself, and knocks the case out when it hits bottom, so no moon clips are needed, and indeed, how would a moon clip even fit an SA?

When reloading an SA, a speed strip would just get in the way, because one chamber at a time is exposed, and the loading gate does not provide much clearance. There is room to get a pistol magazine's feed lips in there, or at least close enough.

 

[goon]

Personally, I carry a 3" SP-101 .357. I use Speer 135 grain GDHP that are designed for the short barrel for CCW/HD use. I realize that they're more like a .38+P than a full power .357, but I'm OK with that. They're entirely controllable out of that gun. For hiking and camping I stuff full power 158 grain JSP's in there from either Federal or Magtech. A hard cast lead bullet would be better for defense against an enraged bear but I've actually never seen one of those. I figure the JSP is an OK compromise for a load that will defend against two or four legged attackers. Strangely enough, most .38 and .357 loads I've shot from this gun seem to shoot to point of aim regardless of how fast they're going or what the weight is. I'm not sure this should be possible with a fixed sight gun, but I'm certainly not complaining!

Still, if the .357 works well enough in a 3" DA revolver, why not in a short single action? Carry what you like.

 

[papaairbear]

Old Fuff said: Oh we have some folks out here that meet that description, trouble is that to keep going they need to have two hands available...

No kidding! I grew up around some fast and accurate cowboys! A lot of the West was still pretty wild back in the '50s and '60s, and well into the '70s in some parts. But it isn't that way now, just like big city everywhere for all those thinking of comming out to live like Roy Rogers

Critical J: You may be able to find a Vaquero with a Birdshead on the internet at a pawn shop somewhere. Probably be in .44 or .45 Colt though. Have you emailed Brownells about buying a birdshead grip frame yet?

 

[Rexster]

There is nothing wrong with a SAA except fast reloading. I have often carried my Ruger Vaquero Sheriff's model, not the new Vaquero, and feel just fine. Mine is 45 Colt and I am working on getting a 45acp cylinder fitted, and yes I do have a couple of old 1911 mags with the springs lightened, to use as reloads once I get the acp cylinder. The Mernickle PS6-SA holster fits close to the body and works well.

+1. In his AH column, and most likely in his classes, Clint Smith uses the terminology of more or less manipulation. Reloading a DA revolver requires more manipulation than reloading an auto, and reloading an SA sixgun requires more manipulation than reloading it's DA counterpart. While less manipulation may be desirable in regard to operating a weapon, this does not mean that well-trained folks will necessarily choose the auto-loading weapon option.

I would not lose sleep over it, if for some strange reason, I had to patrol the streets of my patrol
districts with an SA sixgun on my hip every night, instead
of the currently-mandated double-stack DA .40 auto. I would still be carrying a
second handgun, as I do now, and would still take the shotgun for frequent
short walks, as I do now, when I anticipate facing weapons, being
outnumbered, or "just because." To be clear, I am not saying I would prefer to
tote an SA sixgun at work, just that I would not feel inadequately armed. A
semi-compact double-stack duty pistol is a much more efficient package,
especially for those of us who have not increased the amount of real estate at
belt level.

In private-citizen clothing, with no need to tote a Taser, radio, handcuffs, baton, and such burdens, a substantial sixgun is not a bothersome load to carry.

In 27+ years of police patrol, I have fired one shot. In situations where I nearly had to shoot, five rounds would have probably been plenty, had things gone bad. This is in a city which once vied for murder capital of the USA, about the time I started. (I actually chose to join this PD in 1983 instead of joining the then-peacetime military; I wanted to serve, and experience an adventure.)

I am not trying to persuade anyone that five shots is enough; just sayin' that five rounds has been more than enough for me, and my immediate associates, over time. (I will concede that my shotgun may have persuaded some to stand down rather than try something stupid, where they may have resisted against handguns.)