UN Declaration of Human Rights and the United States

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there are no such things as human rights. humans are not 'entitled' to anything. if we are lucky, we live in a country that affords us those rights, and protects them. the idea that every person is entitled to certain things is as dangerous as the idea that every person should be able to vote.

now in the US, we have an arrangement that DOES afford us many 'rights', and traditionally, those rights have been protected(not perfectly of course, but better than anywhere else historically).

the UN has taken this dangerous idea of human 'rights', and broadcast it world-wide, so now every soul on the face of the earth is expecting something. the irony is, that the organization that is proclaiming these rights has the most laughable record in securing them for anyone.
 
the idea that every person is entitled to certain things is as dangerous as the idea that every person should be able to vote.
Yeah, "life, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness," blah blah blah. Democracy, etc. Evil concepts, those.
 
Have you taken a look at that piece of garbage? Every person has a right to housing, food, shelter, yadda yadda... Every person has a right to free education. Looks like a socialist nanny state blue print if you ask me.

The reason for the inclusion of economic rights into the Declaration has to do with Cold War Politics. When the Declaration was written the United States only wanted to include social and political rights, i.e. freedom of speech, religion etc. The Soviet Union on the other hand only wanted to include economic rights i.e. water, healthcare, shelter, etc. The Declaration therefore included both, but it is not binding. With the Cold War over there has been a push in Human Rights scholarship to reexamine the validity of economic rights. This does not mean the introduction of socialism, or that anyone is going to force the US to do much of anything. The cases that economic rights advocates are looking at are places like Bolivia and Zimbabwe. Remember, access to clean water in most of the world is a real issue, and government policies can threaten access to water tremendously, as in Bolivia.

Recently I heard those un idiots were going to add taxpayer funded abortion to the list of 'human rights'.

I think you need to cite a source. My guess is that maybe someone proposed such an idea, but that is a far cry from the UN adopting it. This could be some NGO, a liberal country, or a bureaucrat, that wants such to place this as a right.

There are some places in this country where that UN garbage is in effect and the US Constitution is not, like chocolate city, where everyone expects free handouts regardless of whom they are taken from.

Again please cite a source. How is New Orleans under UN legal jurisdiction and not under the US constitution?

No document published by the UN has any legal bering on the USA, signed or unsigned. We (our Goverment) chooses to comply with most of them because we have a vested interest in perserving the legitimacy of the UN as a 'global council' where countries can meet to settle disputes and problems. At any point Congress or the President can decide that we will no longer follow a treaty, that is what it means to be "sovereign". The other nations can bitch and moan, impose sanctions, and even go to war, but at the end of the day a treaty is only binding as long as the signers agree to follow it.

This is not exactly true. If the United States signs an international agreement then such an agreement then trumps domestic law, but not constitutional law. So if the United States signed a treaty and did not abide by it, I could sue the government to comply. The government is then obligated to abide by the agreement. If the United States decided to back out of a treaty then it could do so, but there is a certain process that it must comply by, usually dictated in the treaty. Different treaties have different enforcement mechanisms. Some dictate embargoes or sanctions, others dictate only rhetorical punishments, while many have no enforcement mechanisms.

2. International Aid – I think we can all agree that bureaucracy is the enemy of efficiency. Why then do we rely on a bloated international organization to render aid? This corrupt body has embezzled literally BILLIONS of American dollars. While cents on the dollar may get to the people who need them, Kojo Annan drives around in a Mercedes.

I think you need some evidence to back up such a statement. I've actually seen UN aid and USAID aid in action. Both are bureaucracies and were pretty effective at what they did.

3. War Crimes – The laughable “world court” is incompetent and slow to action. It has questionable jurisdiction. I seem to remember that the Nuremberg trials, though not without their problems, got to the root of the matter of Nazi atrocities much better than anything the UN has done.

Which trials are incompetent or slow to act? Kosovo, Rwanda, Liberia, Uganda? There are many logistical and pragmatic reasons why certain trials take longer than others, that have little to do with who is conducting the trial.

How the does an I.A.N.S.A member get an official positon at the UN? Can you IMAGINE the liberal uproar and "gnashing of teeth" if Wayne LaPierre was the "Special Rapporteur" and he concluded that it was the CRIMINAL who was the rights violator and deserved whatever he got?

The UN is one of the few organizations that includes NGOs. This does not give them the same status as sovereign states. In theory the NRA could be allowed a similar seat as the IANSA. The UN also allows businesses to have input as in policy as well.

there are no such things as human rights. humans are not 'entitled' to anything. if we are lucky, we live in a country that affords us those rights, and protects them. the idea that every person is entitled to certain things is as dangerous as the idea that every person should be able to vote.

Socrates, Plato, Plotinus, Augustine, Aquinas, Descartes, Locke, Rousseau, Kant, Rawls, Habermas, and many other scholars disagree with you. Most legal traditions also acknowledge some inherent human rights.
 
I wish religious Bible thumpers would quit using their interpretation of the Bible as a way of pushing an economic system for a secular state. After all we do have separation of church and state. Or do we? Do not push theological liberalism down my throat or your religious based Social Justice theory. :neener:
 
1911Tuner said:
Here's my read on it...

They want everyone's rights to be what "they" (the entity) decree as a right...and the entity is made up in large part by representatives dictatorships or leftist-leaning nations...such as France...or nations whose butt we kicked somewhere along the way...like Germany...who are opposed to
the United States of America as being a world leader. The entity wants all to be equal...somehow. The entity wants everything to be "fair" and life just isn't fair. Never has been and never will be.

The entity's idea of fair is to drain America's resources in order to feed, house, school, provide free medical care, and serve/protect people whose
corrupt governments aren't willing to spend their own resources to that end,
preferring instead to rob the tills to enrich the "Kings" and procure armament
and military might to either murder and oppress their own...or another smaller/weaker nation that borders it.

We send food and medical supplies to The Sudan...The stuff is sold or traded for weapons. Ethiopia? Sold...and palatial mansions built, or blown on multi-million dollar weddings for sons and daughters of the Ruling Elite.

So...The UN council votes to spend 50 billion dollars on whatever "plan" they have...and guess who they're counting on to pay 90% of the tab. Here's a clue. You don't need to invade a country with overwhelming force in order to wreck it. You can bleed it to death over time. All you have to do is get the majority vote to okay opening the vein.

The UN isn't evil? The UN isn't dedicated to the ultimate destruction of America as we know it? Bring us down to their level instead of working to raise themselves to ours...but that's just my read. You may see if differently.
Nancy Pelosi and Chuckie Schumer and Teddy Kennedy, et al all do...

Rant off...
10-4 and roger that

The U.N. is a decadent organization whose only genuine purpose is to serve as a shining example of corruption. I cannot understand why the United States continues to belong, and to allow those maggots to maintain their headquarters in NYC.

Probably because it's easier to keep an eye on them here than it would be in Geneva or Helsinki ...
 
Treaties as U. S. law

foob says, and quite correctly:

"Actually, treaties signed by the US with other countries have legal bearing in the US. There has been numerous case law where the judiciary, including the supreme court, have cited international treaties that decided their ruling.

Article III Section 2 of the US constitution:
The judicial power shall extend to all cases, in law and equity, arising under this Constitution, the laws of the United States, and treaties made, or which shall be made, under their authority."


One might even go further and take a look at Article VI of our Constitution:

"This Constitution, and the laws of the United States which shall be made in pursuance thereof; and all treaties made, or which shall be made, under the authority of the United States, shall be the supreme law of the land; and the judges in every state shall be bound thereby, anything in the Constitution or laws of any State to the contrary notwithstanding."
 
Human rights

A forum member posted:

"there are no such things as human rights. humans are not 'entitled' to anything"

On July 4, 1776, the founders of our great nation placed their very lives at risk as traitors, and signed their names to a document which told the world why they were rebelling against their king.

They gave the reasons for their couragous act, beginning with:

"We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal, that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable Rights, that among these are Life, Liberty and the pursuit of Happiness."

"Endowed by their Creator..." Not graciously bestowed by a king, president or legislature. The U. S. Constitution, which soon followed, would not have been ratified had its drafters not promised that it would be promptly amended to spell out those "unalienable Rights," since the Declaration of Independence only mentioned three, "Life, Liberty and the pursuit of Happiness," and the people of this new nation wanted it in writing -- a solemn obligation that we would forevermore have those unalienable rights endowed by our Creator.:)

The drafters of our Constitution kept their promise and the Bill of Rights went into force -- ten amendments, one of which, the second, is of particular interest to our members.
 
Human rights
A forum member posted:

"there are no such things as human rights. humans are not 'entitled' to anything"

On July 4, 1776, the founders of our great nation placed their very lives at risk as traitors, and signed their names to a document which told the world why they were rebelling against their king.

They gave the reasons for their couragous act, beginning with:

"We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal, that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable Rights, that among these are Life, Liberty and the pursuit of Happiness."

"Endowed by their Creator..." Not graciously bestowed by a king, president or legislature.

+1

I was wondering when someone was going to say it. Truths, Self-evident, All Men, Equal. I can't find the part where it says just US citizens. If we want to get back to being the goodguys in the world instead of the bully maybe we should take a lesson in what our fore-fathers gave to us and "All Men".
 
The UN Is Dangerous

Regardless of who started it, it has become dangerous. It has survived on eggs for quite some time, but now it has smelled meat. The goose is destined for the dinner plate, folks, and we're it!

The UN will bleed us dry and kill the golden goose. I'm damn glad this goose has a gun. I won't be turned into foie gras or loose my feathers to some ne'er-do-well destined to starve and freeze to death anyway. He goes alone or just quicker trying to take me with him and failing. Let him emulate our success and take care of himself. That's a better choice for him.

Woody

"Peace, Prosperity, and Freedom: Magic elixirs of life brought to you courtesy of the Constitution for the United States of America. Terrorism, Poverty, and Subjugation: World dominating poisons of life; brought to you courtesy of the United Nations". B.E.Wood
 
This looks like a 'bar' for all men (countries) to strive for. I see no funding requirements or where any government is required to do anything from this declaration. Correct me if I'm wrong. Don't we already have those 'human rights' here in the US?

I agree the general funding of the UN is extremely lopsided and needs correcting. But the UN can be a valuble organization consider the first gulf war. It all came together to protect a member country. THAT'S how it's supposed to work. When a wrong is 'really' wrong most all men of the world can agree.
 
Gunfire, you made reference to the first Gulf War. That 1991 support was the first of its kind since 1950 and Korea. The rest of the time, the U.S. has pretty much been chastised as a Bad Guy by the majority of the members. But, what the heck. I guess every 40 years or so, we deserve some payback for the money we've spent on the people who vote against us...

Art
 
The way I see it (no, I'm no constitutional/US History scholar. In fact, I'm a moron. Read what follows with that in mind), the three rights listed as among those endowed 'pon all these equally created men are not positive rights (e.g., "you have the right TO xyz") but, like the rights of the people listed in the BOR, they're.. uh.. whatever the term for the opposite of a positive right is, (e.g., you are to be FREE FROM xyz).

Let me lay it out:

LIFE - You, as an innocent (that is, not guilty of any crime (that is, an activity which infringes upon the rights of another)), have the right not to be murdered. The right to provide for yourself, within the boundaries of your rights (that is, not stepping on others' rights), the right to be free from thievery of your livelihood.

LIBERTY - You, as an innocent, have the right to be free from constraint or oppression or imprisonment or from being forcibly compelled to anything against your will. (obviously, in the context of a governed society, there are limits to this; dues to be paid for membership in that society, which are decided by the members of that society through a government)

PURSUIT OF HAPPINESS - You, as an innocent, are to be free from being forced to think or live a certain way; you are free to seek happiness where you will find it, within the boundaries of your rights.


~GnSx
"Wait.. where we goin' with this?"
"I don't remember."
"Huh. So, anydangway.."
 
"This Constitution, and the laws of the United States which shall be made in pursuance thereof; and all treaties made, or which shall be made, under the authority of the United States, shall be the supreme law of the land; and the judges in every state shall be bound thereby, anything in the Constitution or laws of any State to the contrary notwithstanding."
It is noteworthy that the word "notwithstanding" means regardless - nevertheless.

Keep in mind the words of our illustrious president to the UN General Assembly in 2001:

"We must press on with our agenda for peace and prosperity in every land".

And I am sure they are.

----------------------------------------------

http://ussliberty.org
http://ssunitedstates.org
 
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