unarmed bad guy

[Ryder]

I'll have to wait around to see what he decides. If I am to be attacked I want it to be in front of as many witnesses as possible.

What difference if he weighs more or less than me, is taller or shorter? Perceptions don't kill, force placement does. Same argument with guns, a little one is less dangerous?

How on earth could you possibly know the guy is unarmed? I generally assume the opposite. Maybe that's just because I've carried a knife since I was 7 years old?

 

[gunny1022]

My brother, an ex-Marine, said he was convinced that without the firearm his wife and daughter would have been raped, perhaps killed along with himself. Since then he has included a 870 12 ga with 00 buckshot in his trunk. No words or treats were spoken once the 1911 was displayed. he said he would have killed all four had they rushed him. they picked the wrong car to mess with. Ex-Marine with an expert class in NRA National Match.

 

[expvideo]

I personally don't believe every confrontation should be solved with a gun. I've worked in nightclubs long enough to get in several fights or try to break up several fights. Rarely does a fight warrent a display of deadly force. I also have several years experience in martial arts, which makes for little need to draw a weapon. If the fight escalates to that point, I'll draw. It's important to know what "that point" is though. That point is not just someone wanting to punch you. And pulling out a cigarette has always benefited me more than pulling out a gun.

Can you legally? Sure. Is it a good idea? Not always.

 

[thexrayboy]

When confronted with a belligerent party wanting to fight the only response that is guranteed to be complication free is Nike-Do. All others have outcomes ranging from not good to really awful. And remember the law does not look at fighting as a legal activity unless performed in the ring under athletic supervision. One must always remember, fighting is not legal and cannot be justified. Physical self defense is a different subject. If you can't run away, talk. If talk fails and violence is inevitable do not "fight". If you must resort to physical action to defend yourself then be as quick, efficient and thorough as possible. Do not worry about fair, right or any other artificial concept. End the assault as quickly and as effectively as you can. If you truly fear for your life shoot the attacker. Otherwise render him a nonthreat any way you can as fast as you can. Just remember, I'd rather be the winner of an altercation justifying my actions legally than the loser discussing my rehabilitaion options in the hospital.

 

[Low-Sci]

I think its a given here that if you can just leave, you do it. So there's only really a point in talking about what to do in the event that a retreat isn't an option, and there will be times like that.

Lets say for whatever reason that you cannot retreat in safety; your kids are with you, you're handicapped and can't run for it effectively, whatever. Train for it all you want, but circumstances utterly preclude you from fleeing.

For the sake of the argument, lets also assume that we know with absolute certainty that the attacker is unarmed. Assume he's naked and has nothing in his hands, and nothing in any convenient orifices that could constitute a weapon. Lets also assume that the intent is clear and unabating; he's going to fight you, whether or not you fight him is up to you.

In this case, I still don't see a problem with displaying your firearm. Don't draw down on him, but make it clear that you're reaching for your gun while verbally warning him. If a fight starts, you'll likely prosecute the whole fight with whatever is in your hands when it starts. Have the best weapon available, have it ready before the fight. Yes, you're brandishing, but you're also about to be attacked and you are defending yourself.

Its worth noting that losing the fight may well mean that you die. This would not be the first time that a criminal killed someone with bare hands, nor would it be the first time that a person was tackled and had his weapon taken and used on him. In any fight, there is a serious risk of grave bodily harm and death, especially from a maniac who is aching for a fight and especially in the presence of a firearm. Maybe that's not a jury-safe point of view, but its true.

So if you cannot retreat, take measures to ensure the fight doesn't happen. And if the attacker ignores your warnings, you'll have a weapon that can win the fight. Its not mutual combat, the attacker forced you and himself into this situation, and you have to take control of it.

 

[James T Thomas]

what a revolt'n development this is!

I read the post differently than some of you.
It seems timothy75 is stating that the agressor is intent on a violent confrontation, no matter what you do, and to complicate matters, he has not produced a weapon that would justify you using comprable force to defend youself.
I did'nt read this as a "calling you out" type of situation as Mr. White presumes, but rather, as an assault, preliminary to injuries by what appears to be someone unarmed.
Am I reading this wrong "timothy75"?

I have been in a situation where my initial attempt at descalation by backing down and removing myself only encouraged the attacker who percieved such action to be a sign of weakness and actually spurred him on!
I also have seen instances where because of chemical influence, the agressor -when confronted by a drawn weapon, will recklessly defy the defender. "Go ahead and shoot me, he will shout, and move in on you, knowing that he, by all appearances, has not justified you using deadly force.
What a predicament.

"timothy-", I would place something between myself and this guy so that he would have to strike at distance or reach and grab; so that the witnesses to his relentless agression would know that I was clearly and desperately trying to avoid contact. I would clearly and loudly state that I wanted to leave and go away. If he would still be intent on attacking you, it will become evident to all onlookers that he has the criminal frame of mind. My supposition is that he presses on with his assault, exposing you to be vunerable to battery next.

He will close with you to strike at you, grab hold of you, or rush upon you.
Should he grab; I would make sure by grasp defeating technique that is common knowledge within many martial arts, that he could not drag me down or around nor control me, and finally would gain distance from him with a chair or whatever was handy so that when he made an additional attempt on me that I would then have established in public view that I was not the agressor and that I had already avoided violence, and that this attacker had indeed acted to give me a reasonable conclusion that I was in danger of serious bodily injury or more. You must avoid his manuevering to entrap you.

From there on, producing a firearm would be your decision, based on your judgement.

 

[Whitewolf 508]

best response

I am an old, overweight 2 pack a day man. Running is not an option for me and going hand to hand is not really that much of an option considering my limited skills. When someone confronts me, my basic option is to try to defuse the situation verbally and then doing whatever is necessary to protect myself.

I watched an interesting program on A&E that showed how much force a single punch can generate and how much damage it can do to the human body. Having worked in a police department for over 20 years cataloging photos and being desk officer, I have seen the damage caused by "just a fist fight". Those damages were often permanent and life altering.

Having said that, I am not going to stand around and get punched by some 20 year old gorilla. I will take my chances in court and that is that.

 

[buzz_knox]

If you can avoid a confrontation, do so. If a person persists in the confrontation, try again to get out of there. Unless you will be leaving an innocent behind to be victimized, not fighting is pretty much always the best option. This all depends on your being able to retreat without endangering yourself, of course.

That being said, there are times you are forced to engage the attacker. Carrying a firearm does not eliminate your right to defend yourself from non-lethal attacks; it just makes having the knowledge and ability to respond with equal force and effectively defend yourself without drawing your weapon critical. And there are times (not given in the original post), where the person's actions and statements indicate a desire to go beyond just kissing your posterior. At that time, you just have to do what a reasonable person in that same set of circumstances would do.

 

[gezzer]

If you're a civilian your handcuffs should be marked For Recreational Use Only.

Not for nothing but can we quit the civillian crap. I suppose all police officers cuffs are marked this way as they just happen to be civillians too.

 

[Jeff White]

Words mean things...

gezzer,
I suggest that you look up civilian in the dictionary. Websters defines it as a person who is not in the military, police or fire service.

Some members here get all upset when the antis change the meaning of a word to suit their purposes. But I guess it's ok for those same members to change the meaning of a word for their own purposes.

I don't know where this whole everyone who isn't in the military is a civilian thing started. But it has no basis in fact. Get the dictionary out and look it up.

Civilian isn't a derogetory term. It's simply a way to identify anyone who's not a member of the military, police or fire service. It's also a lot simpler to type then everyone who's not a member of the military police or fire service.

Sheesh...........

Jeff

 

[strambo]

I think of a civilian as someone who does not have a professional duty/obligation to act on behalf of society. That pretty much jives with Jeff's posted definition and the common usage of the term. It's not like an insult. The distinguisher is important in some cases. Like with hancuffs, a "civilian" does not have a duty to arrest or apprehend criminals, so specialty gear only for that purpose might not be advisable.

Don't like being called a civilian, join the military, police or fire dept. I very much enjoyed my 2 1/2 years as a civilian, it was nice.