Underpowered for backpacking in brown bear country?

[9mm+]

I have a chance to hike and camp in N. Montana during late spring/early summer. Ideally, the backpacking firearm of choice would be the Ruger Alaskan I have had my eye on for some time but simply do not have the funds to buy at present. I do have some bear pepper spray (the big can) which I will carry at all times and I will bring my Remy 870 loaded with 00 buck or slugs. I do have a Springfield XD40, but I am not sure if it will be of much value over a pepper spray blast + shotgun follow up against a bear rush.

The question for those who are experienced in bear country is whether this be sufficient or should I go into the hole and purchase a Ruger Alaskan (or equivalent in 44 mag)?

Thanks in advance!

 

[Rancho Relaxo]

I backpacked around Missoula in the springtime while going to college. If you feel the need to take something, your 870 is a good option. I carried a rifle once and the extra weight was a real pita. You've already got all that stuff for backpacking, you really notice extra weight. The 44 mag would be nice, but it's my opinion that it's not worth going into debt over. How long are your trips going to be?

 

[paintballdude902]

the shotgun is gonna be alot of weight that you wont want. id take the bear mace and the XD, use the bear mace first and then as a last resort use the XD.

if it was me id carry a .44 or my .454. maybe my .30-30 since its fairly light but i would want to train with that added weight

 

[9mm+]

The hiking/camping will be a week, and thanks for the advice. I do agree that the bear spray is the first line of defense. I can deploy the XD pretty quickly, but I also have a good sling and backpack configuration for the 870. I am definitely not going to carry both, but I will likely carry the 870. I have a tactical stock for it and it's fairly light.

Thanks again...much appreciated!

 

[paintballdude902]

well just remember it will be pretty hard to unsling a shotgun and then shoulder it if you get charged. thats why i would like a large caliber pistol.

 

[ClayInTX]

1, 2, !#!

Speaking of a First Line of Defense indicates there is a Second Line of Defense. Having a Second Line of Defense indicates there might be a need for it.

So—
If the First doesn’t do it, how much time will there be between determination that the First didn’t work and the Second is needed, AND the Second is effective?

 

[shaggy430]

I've bowhunted around Missoula a few times and my parents have lived there for a few years. IMO, there's a better chance running into an angry Mama black bear with cubs that a Griz. I never had a close encounter, but my Dad had a Mexican standoff with an old black sow with his .44 after accidentally getting in between the bear and her cubs. Luckily he didn't have to shoot, but it was a very tense situation.

Regardless of what you take, have confidence that it will be enough if needed.

Also, if you do shoot you better have some scratches and a hell of a good story.

 

[Cosmoline]

I would forget about the wheelgun if you already have a shotty. Get a slug barrel to put on it,with rifle style sights. These are usually $150 or so. Then load exclusively with Brenneke hardcast magnums and make sure you get some practice in first. Buckshot is not suitable for bear. It doesn't penetrate far enough. You want massive hunks of hardcast lead at maximum velocity.

For carrying the easiest way I've found is to just use a backpack scabbard like AK Sportsman makes. I love mine and have gotten a ton of use out of it. It's much easier to carry a shotgun in the scabbard than it is to lug a big SRH on a belt. Plus, the chances of being able to hit much with that short barreled Alaskan .44 or .454 without a ton of practice first are slim. If you're already comfortable with the sling setup you have that's fine, just be sure you can deploy very fast with no hangups.

When I've toted a shotgun I've always kept it loaded and locked in the scabbard. To draw you just reach up and pull it out--takes only a second. I don't trust or like Rem safeties so I prefer the Mossberg's big tang safety. The idea of being able to mix and match third and second wave options if a bear is out for you is kind of silly. They move faster than an Olympic sprinter and you'll be lucky to get one shot off. The main reason for a handgun is for fishing and such when you may have your gear set down on the opposite bank or something.

 

[MTMilitiaman]

I live in Missoula right now. I don't know how many grizzlies are actually around here, save for those on the football team. I do know that NW MT has grizzlies. I worked trail crew for the Forest Service there when I went to college. Wore out several pairs of boots hiking "The Yaak," The Cabinets, and that general area. I've seen several of them during that time. Neither was aggressive, both were impressive. By that, I mean a grizzly in its own habitat is an awesome experience, but it will impress upon you how comforting a 12 gauge with some Brennekes would be, or a magazine full of .375 caliber 270 gr SPs. We don't have the massive 1000 pound bears seen in Alaska, but a 600 pound MT grizzly can still make a mess out of you. Sure, you add eight or nine pounds carrying an 18 inch barreled pump action with a tube of Brenneke rifled slugs, and maybe an extra mag tube of birdshot for small game in a side saddle, but having done a little backpacking, having the comfort can be worth it in bear country.

For the record, there is a large number of black bears in the area too. Not particularly aggressive, but some are persistently curious to cause trouble. And there is mountain lions, though you rarely see them unless they want you too. And you can't trust everyone you meet in the woods. I think there is plenty of reason to carry the extra weight, but then, I was never one of those ones so desperate to shave ounces I'd saw my toothbrush handle in half either.

 

[Cosmoline]

We don't have the massive 1000 pound bears seen in Alaska, but a 600 pound MT grizzly can still make a mess out of you.

The big fat salmon-fed guys around here are very rarely troublemakers. They tend to have plenty to eat and will often just go around eating salmon brains and leaving the rest to rot. Most of the attacks are sows getting upset or one of them defending a moose kill. They tend to be smackdowns, which granted can still kill you. Heck they tolerated a California hippy dude filming and living next to them for years before one finally ate him. I would have kicked Treadwell out after a day or two.

It's the barren ground, hungrier, meaner ones--the grizzlies--that can be a nightmare. Some of them have a real mean streak and just seem to hate people. I remember one incident on the Yukon where a griz boar was charging canoes on the river, driving all the people off into the water. He was later seen from the air with one of the canoes jumping up and down on it in pure fury. They'll rip your arms right out of the socket, too, so you can forget about hand-to-hand combat. There's a youtube video showing a brown bear killing a moose in a driveway, then reaching into its chest and grabbing the heart. It broke through the rib cage with no more effort than opening a box of cereal and reaching for the prize at the bottom.

 

[Sam1911]

I wonder if there's any way to find out if we've ever discussed what firearms might be good for defending youself against bears?

I wonder if there's a way to find out if we've discussed that issue already this week?

Probably not. Shame, really. It would save a lot of time if we could somehow look up previous posts by subject.

-Sam

 

[mljdeckard]

I'll cut him some slack. He's asking about a specific area and has gotten answers for that problem.

I'll second the 12 ga and brenneke slugs. I'm the guy who is always in here saying that the handgun is what you use to fight your way back to the long gun you never should have dropped in the first place. If this applies to bad guys, it applies even more to bears.

 

[9mm+]

Thanks, guys. All good information and much appreciated. I suppose I should've searched for earlier posts; for some reason, I didn't and I apologize for any inconvenience. I am not sure I understand why this upsets some people. I made the title of the post as descriptive as possible so people didn't have to open it if they found it repetitive. It would have easy to simply pass on to other subjects.

 

[mljdeckard]

It's because we have a handful of subjects that have been beaten to death. But what a lot of us admit, is that even if they have been beaten to death, we still love talking about them.

 

[Sam1911]

Yes, yes. Actually the earlier one this week was more fun 'cause we had one fellow tell a real tall tale (complete with misleading pics) of how his buddy killed a hungry Grizzly with a snub-nose .38.

9mm+, I didn't mean to be rude. More just funny. 'Round here, "What caliber for BEARS?" is sort of a cliche. Like, "which is better, 9mm or .45?" You don't want to be that guy, do you?

No harm, and I hope I didn't ruffle you. FWIW, I vote shotgun, too.

-Sam

[EDIT: I'll also second the .40 as a useful thing to carry ... if you have the time to cap yourself before the bear actually begins eating you.]

 

[Flintknapper]

I'd just take the bear spray ( a big can) and the XD40.

If the bear spray doesn't work....you can turn the 40 on yourself.

 

[T.R.]

Back in 1976, my brother and I worked all summer in Bob Marshall Wilderness as timber estimators for US Forest Service. We had to qualify with a 760 Remington slide action rifle. It was a 30-06 loaded with 220 grain ammo. We had to hit a 8 inch target at 50 yards rapid fire. Sadly, none of the female applicants passed the qualification test. It was lonely that summer.

Nope, we never had any trouble with bears. In fact, the few grizzlies we observed seemed more intent on departing the area than looking for trouble.

I like to backpack to the alpine lakes in the Bighorn Mts of north-central Wyoming for trout. My carry gun is an antique single barrel 16 gauge loaded with a big lead deer slug. Lightweight but deadly up close. Nope, I've never had trouble with bears in Wyoming either.

TR

 

[Guiding101]

I've guieded black bear hunts for years, and have had to put down a couple of poorly shot animals up-close and personal. Now while a black bear is not a grizzly, the same principles apply. I carried a 44 ruger redhawk on my hip, but neer unholstered it. My back up gun of choice was always a mossberg 835 ultra mag. The round in the chamber was a saboted slug. The following rounds were 3" 1 5/8 oz 00 buck. At the range that makes it leagal for you to shoot a charging bear, this is IMHO the best bet. Try this, Stack a bundle of 2"x4" together and shoot them from 5 yards with a .44 mag with 240 grain hard heads. Next try it with the above mentioned 00 buck round. The results will speak for themselves.

 

[9mm+]

Ok, Sam, I get it, thanks...all is cool here!

 

[hso]

I'll chime in supporting the XD, but because the potential for having a bear attack is so small as to make the preference the lightest one of the two to carry. If you want to get the most "bang for the buck" in the XD then pick 200 grain deep penetrating +P+ ammo for it on the remote chance that a bear is encountered and that a bear is threatening and the bear spray won't handle it.

 

[hirundo82]

9mm+, I didn't mean to be rude. More just funny. 'Round here, "What caliber for BEARS?" is sort of a cliche. Like, "which is better, 9mm or .45?" You don't want to be that guy, do you?

So I shouldn't go start a ".223 for deer?" thread? I don't think we've had one of those yet this week.

 

[Karl Hungus]

[EDIT: I'll also second the .40 as a useful thing to carry ... if you have the time to cap yourself before the bear actually begins eating you.]

I second this. Whenever the discussion on bear protection comes up I always recommend whatever you can stick in your mouth the fastest. There are plenty of calibers that will destroy any bear, but hunting bear and shooting a charging bear are two completely different things. Getting charged by a bear is a situation that you want to avoid at all costs.

 

[MrCleanOK]

Bring the bear spray, and if you feel you must, bring the 870 and stoke it with Brenneke 3" Black Magic Magnum slugs. Either of those options will handle anything walking in North America.

 

[bad_aim_billy]

I would bring a rifle with a heavy barrel. I like to hike with a 10-12 pound gun. A nice big revolver is nice too, about 4 lbs. Then with lots of extra ammo, I can get close to 20 extra pounds. At 6000 ft in elevation, I find it completely comfortable, especially since I'm terrified of thousands of bears swarming me at any moment. This year, I'm adding in a 12 gauge into the mix, that should get me up to about 28 extra pounds. Anything else I can use for bear protection that will give me more weight? Maybe a 45/70?

 

[Zoogster]

The monthly bear thread.

Bears rarely attack. If you act a certain way around them they attack even less.
There is fewer brown bears in all of the United States including Alaska than there is people in a medium town, 33,000.


There is over 300,000,000 US citizens.

That means if .011% of US citizens killed a brown bear they would be extinct in one year. Even a fraction of that percent would be unsustainable and lead to extinction in several years as they breed fairly slowly and most cubs don't live to adulthood.
In fact once their numbers get below a certain population density they cannot locate each other to even breed often enough to keep from going extinct.


So we certainly don't need people with itchy trigger fingers planning to shoot them if they stumble across one. There is thousands of encounters on a regular basis and a rare number of attacks.
The chances of even needing to shoot if you take other measures and communicate well is very low.